Beckham and US Soccer (Football)

Off Topic
41

[quote]superhero#1 wrote:

Just because someone (steel nation) thinks basketball or football are more exciting than soccer doesn’t it make it anything more than an opinion. Soccer is a lot more exciting to me than football and that’s a personal preference.

No sport is exempt from having athletes who looks like “metrosexuals.” Saying soccer isn’t violent is a typical statement made by a…football fan. There are tackles in soccer, headbutts, fights and concussions, have you ever watched a soccer game?

[/quote]

Couldn’t agree with you more

42

[quote]superhero#1 wrote:
I’ve heard soccer is the manliest sport to play in Europe.

[/quote]

It’s the most popular yes, but manliest? no. I’m somewhat biased but…

I’d say that Rugby is considered to be the manliest sport in Europe.

Especially as it’s getting way more popular.

43

[quote]burntfrenchfry wrote:
Soccer in the U.S. will become popular because of the kids who grow up playing it.

Many people don’t watch soccer because it’s “too boring.” Honestly, that’s because most of them don’t understand the game (the tactics), and don’t spend long enough watching it to figure it out. To them, it just looks like 22 guys kicking a little ball back and forth. Once you understand the game, it can be quite exciting.[/quote]

Very well-put. People expect this kind of thing to happen overnight and that is just silly. Eventually, the fact that so many kids, year after year play will have an impact.

People want to claim soccer is boring (“Like… where’s all the scoring???”) but I think the same thing of NASCAR. What can I say?

44

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
A movie came out last year, or the year before about how they brought Pele to the US in the 70’s to try to kick start the American soccer league. It was a good movie. I’d say the odds are history is about to repeat itself.[/quote]

When Pele came here soccer was virtually unheard of in US schools, now at least half of the kids in school have tried it.

It won’t become bigger than football or basketball professionally, but there are more kids playing it than either of those sports.

45

[quote]CantStop wrote:
Freaky Styley wrote:
CantStop wrote:

Beckham is an average player, surrounded by hype. Most proper football fans in the Uk have never rated him.

He was England’s best and most influential player for how long? Thanks for playing.

I don’t know if that says more about Beckham (Great? Nope. Very good, with a few exceptional talents? Yessir.) or the English national team’s recent history.

Without Beckham’s free kick against Greece, you don’t qualify for the '02 World Cup.

If thats the case then, did his sending off not cost England the world cup?
[/quote]

And now we come to the crux of it all. I will never cease to be amazed that many in England cannot let that go. You are assuming that if he had not been sent off they would have won? It was the Round of 16 still!

If Beckham does not score against Greece, you do not even make it to the 2002 World Cup.

And without Beckham’s re-insertion into the Real Madrid line-up this past year, they do not win La Liga.

Please try and rationally address him as a player instead of harbor nearly 10 year old grudges about what even Beckham admits was a pretty stupid action on his part. I’m sure you never made a mistake at 23 (or however old you are now).

46

[quote]BALBO wrote:
You can also hug other men without being gay(not that is anything at all wrong with that) at soccer matches.[/quote]

Why must you ruin threads with string of completely irrelevant and idiotic photos?

47

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
Sure, kids in the US do play soccer. But then their balls drop, and the majority switch to football, wrestling, etc.

Our culture won’t embrace soccer becuase it’s such a sissified sport. The game isn’t violent, the athletes look like metrosexuals, and no adults here play it. All of that = FUCKING BORING. That’s why men’s tennis and women’s basketball are both severely lacking in popularity.

Now, can it be MORE popular than it is now? Sure, I suppose someday it may be on the same level as professional bowling or the X-Games. But it will never, EVER come near the Big 6 (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, PGA, NASCAR).[/quote]

I am going to let super hero’s post make most of my point here and no need to repeat… BUT… you are crazy if you don’t think a lot of different sports could overtake at least the NHL. The NHL is absolutely dying (1.3 million watched the Stanley Cup Finals for crying out loud) whereas soccer is growing.

People always seems to forget how huge soccer is with the growing Latino population in the U.S. (and which is why getting better players from Mexico and South America into MLS will likely be the real reason the league gets big or not, even more than Beckham… although the exposure he brings is unmatched).

48

[quote]Kuz wrote:
I am going to let super hero’s post make most of my point here and no need to repeat… BUT… you are crazy if you don’t think a lot of different sports could overtake at least the NHL. The NHL is absolutely dying (1.3 million watched the Stanley Cup Finals for crying out loud) whereas soccer is growing.

People always seems to forget how huge soccer is with the growing Latino population in the U.S. (and which is why getting better players from Mexico and South America into MLS will likely be the real reason the league gets big or not, even more than Beckham… although the exposure he brings is unmatched).[/quote]

The NHL is still recovering from the strike. Give it time and it will come back.

I didn’t take the “growing Latino population” into account. My head’s still in the sand on that one. But, that makes sense.

49

[quote]superhero#1 wrote:
I’ve heard soccer is the manliest sport to play in Europe. [/quote]

You must be either joking or misinformed. Rugby would be the obvious choice here.

[quote]
Just because someone (steel nation) thinks basketball or football are more exciting than soccer doesn’t it make it anything more than an opinion. Soccer is a lot more exciting to me than football and that’s a personal preference.[/quote]

You’re right, it’s only my opinion. I’m glad that we have the MLS so soccer fans can enjoy their sport of choice. And I’m not calling you a pussy for watching soccer or even playing it. I just don’t rate it highly on the “manliness” scale.

While it’s true that there are a few metrosexuals in every sport, soccer is the only one I can think of, out of those mentioned (excluding golf and NASCAR, which are loved for different reasons), that has no big and bad SOBs to speak of.

But, I guess that’s just the nature of the sport. It wouldn’t make much sense to be big and jacked if you have to run 13 km a match (OUCH!).

I have watched a few soccer games, usually over a pint with some friendly Euros when I’m in China on business. I’ve noticed that pro soccer players tend to roll around on the ground a lot when they get tackled, apparently feigning a gunshot wound or something. This always struck me as rather odd.

Do they have broken glass embedded in the turf in soccer stadiums? Does “walk it off,” or “rub some dirt on it” translate into German, Italian, Spanish, etc.?

I’ve never seen a headbutt or a concussion, and I don’t intend to watch numerous 90 minute games in hopes of seeing one when I can watch the first quarter of any NFL or NCAA football game and see plenty of hard hits. Having experienced several concussions myself, I don’t find brain injuries particularly entertaining in and of themselves (unless Carson Palmer is on the receiving end).

While these things may happen in soccer, they (headbutts, fights, concussions) aren’t a part of the normal action. Much like the fights in hockey, basketball, or baseball, I’m sure they contribute very little to the entertainment value of the sport.

50

[quote]entheogens wrote:
Do you think Beckham is going to become a blockbusting celebrity in the U.S.A. or help popularize soccer?

http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=ap-sportsshowcase&prov=ap&type=lgns[/quote]

No chance. Many of the people covering the event last week were entertainment reporters, society page people. Not sports reporters. The average sports fan in this country just does not care. Soccer is something your kids do until they get to be about 12.

Soccer is boring to Americans. Not enough scoring. Not physical enough (grown men screaming like little girls whenever they fall down).

The MLS is already on lifs-support. It’ll be dead and forgotten in 10 years and so will this whole Beckham thing. LA is going to take a bath on that contract. It’ll ripple through the league for years until the whole thing just folds.

Then…in about 20 years…we’ll be coming off some kind of Wold Cup inspired hysteria. An investor group will announce they are starting a soccer league because the time is ripe for soccer to explode in the U.S. And will do this whole silly thing over again.

51

[quote]DS 007 wrote:
The MLS is already on lifs-support. It’ll be dead and forgotten in 10 years and so will this whole Beckham thing. LA is going to take a bath on that contract. It’ll ripple through the league for years until the whole thing just folds.
[/quote]

You say this based off of what?
That several teams have recently become profitable?

That several more teams are nearing profitablity?
That attendance has been increasing?
That the league got several new television deals?

52

[quote]Heuristic wrote:
DS 007 wrote:
The MLS is already on lifs-support. It’ll be dead and forgotten in 10 years and so will this whole Beckham thing. LA is going to take a bath on that contract. It’ll ripple through the league for years until the whole thing just folds.

You say this based off of what?
That several teams have recently become profitable?

That several more teams are nearing profitablity?
That attendance has been increasing?
That the league got several new television deals?[/quote]

Well. There’s this:

I’ve been to a few games in Columbus and if there were 5,000 people there I’d be shocked. NO ONE watches it on TV. Networks sign up for carry MLS because it’s cheap. So is the advertising on these games.

Maybe you and your soccer buddies like it. But face reality. Soccer is behind the NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL (which is sad), NCAA (football, basketball). It’s not even on the radar in this country. Newspapers give it cursory coverage because of whiners like you who think that everyone else should give a shit about it. We don’t. Never will. It’s a boring, pussy sport.

53

I don’t see him popularizing the sport in America. I’ve tried to watch it several times only to wake up later.

54

[quote]pat36 wrote:
I don’t see him popularizing the sport in America. I’ve tried to watch it several times only to wake up later.[/quote]

LOL. Agreed, MLS is much cheaper and more effective than an Ambien/Unisom/Jack Daniels cocktail.

55

[quote]DS 007 wrote:
I’ve been to a few games in Columbus and if there were 5,000 people there I’d be shocked. NO ONE watches it on TV. Networks sign up for carry MLS because it’s cheap. So is the advertising on these games.

Maybe you and your soccer buddies like it. But face reality. Soccer is behind the NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL (which is sad),[/quote]

Those were well below average games you went to considering the Crew have averaged around 16,000 fans per game over the course of their lifetime.

Clearly you are correct in regard to the 3 big sports in this country. I’m not so sure about the NHL though. Last month the U.S. v Mexico Gold Cup final outdrew the final game of the Stanley Cup when only taking Spanish language ratings into account.

The game was also televised on Fox Soccer Network in English so the actual ratings were probably much more in favor of the soccer game. I like hockey, but if the MLS is on life support, you may have to put the NHL in that category as well.

I don’t see MLS actually converting people like you who don’t like soccer into fans. I’ve generally liked the same sports for most of my life: soccer, football, and basketball. I think MLB players are great athletes, but I’ve never liked watching the sport and probably never will. The key for any sport that needs more attendance (like hockey and soccer) is to draw in the casual fan.

56

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
superhero#1 wrote:
I’ve heard soccer is the manliest sport to play in Europe.[/quote]

You must be either joking or misinformed. Rugby would be the obvious choice here.

Obviously not, having been to Spain, known people who went to Germany and England. Maybe Rugby is growing but soccer is the number one sport in virtually every country but the USA.

2006 FIFA World Cup (I was actually in Spain for this): The 2006 World Cup stands as the most watched event in television history garnering an estimated 28.29 billion non-unique viewers, compiled over the course of the tournament. The final attracted an estimated audience of 715.1 million people.[2]

2007 Superbowl: estimated 93.2 million viewers

It must be…jealousy

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:While it’s true that there are a few metrosexuals in every sport, soccer is the only one I can think of, out of those mentioned (excluding golf and NASCAR, which are loved for different reasons), that has no big and bad SOBs to speak of.

But, I guess that’s just the nature of the sport. It wouldn’t make much sense to be big and jacked if you have to run 13 km a match (OUCH!).[/quote]

What? The only “metrosexual” soccer player I can think of is Beckham, I am sure there are metrosexual basketball and football players.

You must not have ever played soccer, that “13km” is not spent jogging, you sprint for the ball and if you get it you pass or keep sprinting. The difference I see between a soccer fan and a football fan is the football fan talking about how much the other sport sucks, I don’t see soccer fans going “OMG american football is so unmanly, they just wear their tight pants and then hug each other till one of them falls over!!”

57

[quote]dcb wrote:
DS 007 wrote:
I’ve been to a few games in Columbus and if there were 5,000 people there I’d be shocked. NO ONE watches it on TV. Networks sign up for carry MLS because it’s cheap. So is the advertising on these games.

Maybe you and your soccer buddies like it. But face reality. Soccer is behind the NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL (which is sad),

Those were well below average games you went to considering the Crew have averaged around 16,000 fans per game over the course of their lifetime.

Clearly you are correct in regard to the 3 big sports in this country. I’m not so sure about the NHL though. Last month the U.S. v Mexico Gold Cup final outdrew the final game of the Stanley Cup when only taking Spanish language ratings into account.

The game was also televised on Fox Soccer Network in English so the actual ratings were probably much more in favor of the soccer game. I like hockey, but if the MLS is on life support, you may have to put the NHL in that category as well.

I don’t see MLS actually converting people like you who don’t like soccer into fans. I’ve generally liked the same sports for most of my life: soccer, football, and basketball. I think MLB players are great athletes, but I’ve never liked watching the sport and probably never will. The key for any sport that needs more attendance (like hockey and soccer) is to draw in the casual fan.

[/quote]

I’m not sure it’s fair to compare soccer and hockey viewership for spanish-language broadcasts. Hockey is not a blip on the latin fan’s radar screen. That said, hockey has to come back from the dead in my view. Their games are on ‘Versus’ and get outdrawn by re-runs of ‘Andy Griffith’ on TV Land (That’s not joke - it happened!).

Hockey deserves it if they have to contract, fold, declare bankruptcy, whatever. Fact is, the sport was doing just fine and then they want to strike. Anyone with any sense warned that they would have a hard time getting the casual fan back if they went on strike. They did and who knows when or IF those fans will be back.

As for the Crew: The ticket I got was free. I was there with a large group who also got free tix. I read in the paper the next day that the ‘announced’ crowd was 13,500. There were NOT half that many there. I have heard from a guy who works in marketing for another MLS team that the league plays games with their attendence numbers.

They count each ticket sold and each ticket given away. Basically they distribute tickets (through radio stations, grocery stores, etc.) and count those as ‘attended’ even if that person never shows.

As a sports fan I took note of the dynamic of the crowd. Pretty quiet. Talked among themselves a lot. Distracted by a lot things other than the game but paid attention when the ball got fairly deep into one end. There were not many Crew FANS.

I didn’t hear people yelling out ‘Player-A, you stink’ or riding the coach. Seems no one really knew (or cared) enough about the team to get that invested in it. All in all I rank that as the worst sports exerience of my life. Right behind Ballroom dancing. I’m not joking. Ballroom dancing (also a free ticket) was more fun to watch.

58

It’s true that American men of my generation (I’m 47) did not grow up playing soccer and that is no doubt a large factor as to reason why many of us are bored watching it (it does bore me, btw).

It’s also true that (at least among my generation) it has the reputation as a sissy sport (one fit for women). However, is there a pussier sport than golf (ok, no counting curling or croquet)? I mean, what could be pussier than hitting a little ball around, accompanied by men wearing tassled shoes who ride around in carts? Yet, golf is fairly popular in the U.S.

I dont know if soccer will ever have the prestige of football or basketball in this country, but I suspect that it’s popularity will grow.

59

[quote]entheogens wrote:
It’s true that American men of my generation (I’m 47) did not grow up playing soccer and that is no doubt a large factor as to reason why many of us are bored watching it (it does bore me, btw).

It’s also true that (at least among my generation) it has the reputation as a sissy sport (one fit for women). However, is there a pussier sport than golf (ok, no counting curling or croquet)? I mean, what could be pussier than hitting a little ball around, accompanied by men wearing tassled shoes who ride around in carts? Yet, golf is fairly popular in the U.S.

I dont know if soccer will ever have the prestige of football or basketball in this country, but I suspect that it’s popularity will grow.[/quote]

Point taken. I’d say this: I’m an athlete. I play golf. I do not consider golf a sport. I don’t consider golfers athletes. Some are. Athleticism can help. But it’s not a requirment. Golf is a skill and I think of it as skills competition. It’s a sport in some sense of the word I suppose. But I don’t think of it as ‘athletics’.

60

[quote]DS 007 wrote:
I’m not sure it’s fair to compare soccer and hockey viewership for spanish-language broadcasts. Hockey is not a blip on the latin fan’s radar screen. That said, hockey has to come back from the dead in my view. Their games are on ‘Versus’ and get outdrawn by re-runs of ‘Andy Griffith’ on TV Land (That’s not joke - it happened!).

Hockey deserves it if they have to contract, fold, declare bankruptcy, whatever. Fact is, the sport was doing just fine and then they want to strike. Anyone with any sense warned that they would have a hard time getting the casual fan back if they went on strike. They did and who knows when or IF those fans will be back.

As for the Crew: The ticket I got was free. I was there with a large group who also got free tix. I read in the paper the next day that the ‘announced’ crowd was 13,500. There were NOT half that many there. I have heard from a guy who works in marketing for another MLS team that the league plays games with their attendence numbers.

They count each ticket sold and each ticket given away. Basically they distribute tickets (through radio stations, grocery stores, etc.) and count those as ‘attended’ even if that person never shows.

As a sports fan I took note of the dynamic of the crowd. Pretty quiet. Talked among themselves a lot. Distracted by a lot things other than the game but paid attention when the ball got fairly deep into one end. There were not many Crew FANS.

I didn’t hear people yelling out ‘Player-A, you stink’ or riding the coach. Seems no one really knew (or cared) enough about the team to get that invested in it. All in all I rank that as the worst sports exerience of my life. Right behind Ballroom dancing. I’m not joking. Ballroom dancing (also a free ticket) was more fun to watch. [/quote]

You’re right, it might not be fair to compare the Gold Cup to the Stanley Cup broadcast. However, spanish speaking soccer fans are not a blip on the radar in this country. They account for a lot of ticket sales in some MLS locations and there’s a ton of spanish language broadcasts of soccer games.

ESPN has a spanish channel here as do Fox Soccer and Gol TV, not to mention the non sports dedicated networks that broadcast in spanish. In fact it’s easier to watch top level soccer on tv than any other sport which may be creating a problem for MLS.

I wasn’t thinking about it before but I’ve been to a Crew game in Columbus about 8 years ago. I would describe the fans at that game the same way you did. I’ve also been to many games in DC and Salt Lake City where the atmosphere is much better. I don’t think that is too different from other sports where some teams have good fans and some don’t.