[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
I don’t get the whole Saint thing. Why would I pray to a Saint when I can just pray to God/Jesus? It’s like talking to customer service about broken shit when you could talk to the guy who made the damn thing.[/quote]
Because G-d tell’s us through his revelation that we should pray for each other.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
I don’t get the whole Saint thing. Why would I pray to a Saint when I can just pray to God/Jesus? It’s like talking to customer service about broken shit when you could talk to the guy who made the damn thing.[/quote]
Exactly.
“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
~ John 14:6[/quote]
I agree that Jesus is the truth, and I agree 100% with what that verse is saying. However, can you explain to me what Paul means when he writes, “First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men” (1 Timoth 2:1-2)?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Though not a catholic I think many of the traditions like this are pretty cool. I recently read a biography of John Paul, and he seemed to have been a very good man.
The way I understand it, beatification and possible saint hood can help out small towns and all where he grew up, so that’s a positive.
I’m curious what kind of things could be officially called miracles and maybe get him to sainthood. Would helping to end communism in Poland and things like that count?[/quote]
Eh, I’m not sure about the communism thing but definitely the French Nun that was cured of Parkinson’s and the boy who John Paul restored his vision would be two examples.
[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
I don’t get the whole Saint thing. Why would I pray to a Saint when I can just pray to God/Jesus? It’s like talking to customer service about broken shit when you could talk to the guy who made the damn thing.[/quote]
Exactly.
“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
~ John 14:6[/quote]
This has also been my biggest complaint, as well as praying to Mary.
Could you explain this Bro Chris? thx[/quote]
Explain what? Praying to Mary?
1001 reasons.
The biggest one is because she’s our Spiritual Mother. Jesus gave Mary to the Church at the crucifix.
Because for Jesus’ first public miracle at the Wedding at Cana, the people didn’t tell Jesus that they were out of wine. They told Mary they were out of wine, and Mary told Jesus and Jesus turned the water into wine. Moreover, the Biblical type of King Solomon and his mother, one was directed to ask the Mother, as well as, the King Solomon.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
I don’t get the whole Saint thing. Why would I pray to a Saint when I can just pray to God/Jesus? It’s like talking to customer service about broken shit when you could talk to the guy who made the damn thing.[/quote]
Exactly.
“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
~ John 14:6[/quote]
This has also been my biggest complaint, as well as praying to Mary.
Could you explain this Bro Chris? thx[/quote]
Also the Rosary, Confession, and a number of other rituals that are done not in the spirit but by the letter.
[/quote]
And, I’m a Catholic and we all know Catholics don’t know their Bibles very well (I’m not the exception), most of my knowledge comes from what I hear on Sundays and a few days during the week. So can you shoot me some verses that show that the Rosary, Confession, and a number of rituals are sins?
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Who gives a shit?[/quote]
I do…and a large chunk of the entire world.[/quote]
You’re catholic. We get it. But this kind of shit’s just boring.[/quote]
Okay, that is why over 1 million people bull rushed Rome, 100’s of thousands of Polish pilgrims came into Rome, that is why 100’s of millions of people around the world watched as John Paul the Great was beatified, because this shit is boring? Man you must go to some crazy ass parties.
[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
I don’t get the whole Saint thing. Why would I pray to a Saint when I can just pray to God/Jesus? It’s like talking to customer service about broken shit when you could talk to the guy who made the damn thing.[/quote]
Exactly.
“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
~ John 14:6[/quote]
This has also been my biggest complaint, as well as praying to Mary.
Could you explain this Bro Chris? thx[/quote]
Also the Rosary, Confession, and a number of other rituals that are done not in the spirit but by the letter.
[/quote]
Yes, the Confession (room) has always bothered(confused) me. When all is required is asking forgiveness from God/Jesus.
[/quote]
I’m sure you as well know scripture better than me, maybe you can point me to a passage in scripture that says confessing our sins to another man is a sin? I would be much obliged if you did. Thank you.
Chris, I grasp generally, the idea of beatification and the difference between ‘praying to’ and ‘praying through’ but with regards to the issue of entry into heaven, can the church effectively grant this?
What I mean is - can the church say “this saint is headed for heaven”? I was under the impression, that much like in islam (the only tradition I seem to know) who goes to heaven and hell is considered a matter purely for god, and nobody can ‘promise’ heaven.
I read somewhere that beatification is effectively promising (or predicting?) heaven to those beatified, and especially those granted sainthood.
PS. Interesting how if this were a thread in PWI, the thread would have erupted into a shitstorm within the first five replies.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
I don’t get the whole Saint thing. Why would I pray to a Saint when I can just pray to God/Jesus? It’s like talking to customer service about broken shit when you could talk to the guy who made the damn thing.[/quote]
Exactly.
“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
~ John 14:6[/quote]
This has also been my biggest complaint, as well as praying to Mary.
Could you explain this Bro Chris? thx[/quote]
Also the Rosary, Confession, and a number of other rituals that are done not in the spirit but by the letter.
[/quote]
The rosary is actually pretty neat. It’s really just a method of meditation. I’ve been trying something similar with Anglican prayer beads.[/quote]
Does each bead represent something? That was my understanding w/o research.
[/quote]
The straight rosary, each type of bead marks a different prayer. But the rosary is really the praying, the beads just help you keep track. You can pray the rosary without the use of beads.
But maybe bc or a catholic should comment on this. I’m just going by memory on what I’ve read.[/quote]
The Rosary is a method of meditation on 15 (now 20 because of the Luminous Mysteries John Paul the Great introduced) parts of Jesus’ life. The Rosary has two parts: the Body and the Soul. Just like a person is made up of Body and Soul. The Body is the matter and the Soul is the form.
The form or soul of the Rosary is the 15 Mysteries (which are passages from the Gospels) in which we meditate on.
The matter or body of the Rosary is the prayers themselves: Our Father, Hail Mary, &c. (which are from the Gospels as well).
There is three normal sets of mysteries Joyous, Sorrowful, and Glorious. The Joyous: Annunciation, the Visitation, the Nativity, the Consecration of the Temple, the finding at the Temple. The Sorrowful: praying in the Garden, Scourging at the Pillar, Crowning of Thorns, Carrying of the Cross, and Crucifix. The Glorious: Resurrection, Ascension, the Descent of the Holy Ghost, Assumption of the Virgin Mary, and Coronation of the Virgin Mary.
Any other questions, don’t be afraid to ask. If you want you can PM me, as well.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
I don’t get the whole Saint thing. Why would I pray to a Saint when I can just pray to God/Jesus? It’s like talking to customer service about broken shit when you could talk to the guy who made the damn thing.[/quote]
Exactly.
“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
~ John 14:6[/quote]
This has also been my biggest complaint, as well as praying to Mary.
Could you explain this Bro Chris? thx[/quote]
Also the Rosary, Confession, and a number of other rituals that are done not in the spirit but by the letter.
[/quote]
And, I’m a Catholic and we all know Catholics don’t know their Bibles very well (I’m not the exception), most of my knowledge comes from what I hear on Sundays and a few days during the week. So can you shoot me some verses that show that the Rosary, Confession, and a number of rituals are sins?[/quote]
I don’t think anyone is implying they are sins, just that it’s unnecessary. And stop with the whole “show me where it’s a sin in the Bible.” The Bible doesn’t spell out every single thing that is wrong or unnecessary.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
I don’t get the whole Saint thing. Why would I pray to a Saint when I can just pray to God/Jesus? It’s like talking to customer service about broken shit when you could talk to the guy who made the damn thing.[/quote]
Exactly.
“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
~ John 14:6[/quote]
I agree that Jesus is the truth, and I agree 100% with what that verse is saying. However, can you explain to me what Paul means when he writes, “First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men” (1 Timoth 2:1-2)?[/quote]
It means that you should pray for others. How do you take that to mean that you should pray to saints or to Mary?
By the way, if you read down to verse 5 in that very same chapter it reads:
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”