[quote]tarfu81 wrote:
I just think that if we allow steroids in baseball then that is sending the wrong message to our youth.[/quote]
uh oh…
the old ‘save the childern’ argument…
AAS should be legal for anyone over the age of twenty-one just as alcohol and nicotine are…
adults should have to right to choose for themselves…
[quote]tarfu81 wrote:
Do you think cocaine would help a player any at all?[/quote]
absolutely!
cocaine is an amazing CNS stimulant, much like ephedrine…
it also has to ability to alleviate pain…
[quote]tarfu81 wrote:
Do you think cocaine would help a player any at all?I don’t.[/quote]
Stimulants are great for many sports, baseball included.
I’ll also add that I’d much prefer the benefits of certain stimulants to that of steroids for many sports.
[quote]DPH wrote:
uh oh…
the old ‘save the childern’ argument…
AAS should be legal for anyone over the age of twenty-one just as alcohol and nicotine are…
adults should have to right to choose for themselves…[/quote]
I think you put that in a much less abrasive way than I did…
thanks
cocaine would help way more in the short term (as in day of)
The bigger the Barry, the sweeter the juice.
Bah, I didn’t want to get into, but…
For people who say, “it hasn’t been proven”, I’d like to know what you’re definition of “being proven” is. Is it conviction in a court of law? If I read the article right, apparently these reporters have/had access to hardcopy documents that show Barry’s blood work, test levels, drugs he was on, etc. over several years’ time. That’s about all the proof you need right there. Just because someone doesn’t get convicted by the U.S. judicial system doesn’t mean shit when I’m formulating my opinion on the matter, and I don’t think it does in most other peoples’ minds either. If they did it, they did it, convicted or not.
I realize my personal opinion doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things, but when we’re talking about all of the baseball fans out there, especially the writers and players who get a HOF vote, I don’t think many of them are going to give two shits if Barry was ever convicted or not. If there is hard evidence against him, then how else can you dispute that?
I’m not saying you should believe everything you read, but how long have all the signs been pointing to him now? His trainer was convicted of dist., his close ties to Conte, his obvious change in size at a fairly old age (in terms of athletes)…where there’s smoke, there’s fire.
If these “sources” don’t exist, then, well…there’s nothing else to say about it. I would just hope that most people have enough intelligence to know that just because someone isn’t in jail doesn’t mean they’re innocent. Yeah, yeah, I know all of the “There has to be some kind of standard and if you don’t have faith in our judicial system then what are you going to believe in?” crap; I’ve heard it many times, and personally I think it’s a weak, naive argument. Sure, there has to be a line somewhere and yes, many times the court of law does its job.
But, c’mon people; defense lawyers make careers out of “beating the legal system” and using loopholes. Don’t give me the “If he’s walking the streets he must be innocent” garbage.
That being said, if it looks like I just want to believe Barry is guilty I don’t. I love the game of baseball, and I love watching players with the kind of raw, natural talent he has. I think he has done some incredible things. I still think he holds one record that will never even be touched and is much more impressive than the HR record (only player to have 500 career stolen bases and 500 career HRs). And I want to believe very badly that what he did was based on talent alone.
But, I’m not ignorant.
One last thing: people are trying to mix his personality into the HOF issue. Look, there are lots of pricks in the HOF. Has nothing to do with what kind of player he is (or was, when the vote comes up in 6 years).
Yes Bonds is the ONLY one that used steroids, NO pitcher ever used them. The whole league used and it was not against the rules it was just illegal.
[quote]erknjerk wrote:
Yes Bonds is the ONLY one that used steroids, NO pitcher ever used them. The whole league used and it was not against the rules it was just illegal.[/quote]
Exactly. It is the fault of the MLB for not testing for steroids not Bonds of anyother player.
Get real this is a PRO sport with HUGE stakes and you aren’t gonna test your atheletes for steroids? Every other sport in the world tests for doping because if you don’t then it might as well not be against the rules.
[quote]DPH wrote:
tarfu81 wrote:
I just think that if we allow steroids in baseball then that is sending the wrong message to our youth.
uh oh…
the old ‘save the childern’ argument…
AAS should be legal for anyone over the age of twenty-one just as alcohol and nicotine are…
adults should have to right to choose for themselves…[/quote]
Yes your right it should be legal for those over the age of 21.We’ve already found out that prohibtion didn’t work for alchol and it doesn’t work for drugs.Again they do not belong in baseball.
I also believe that it’s MLB’s fault for not testing but hopefully they will have a strict testing policy in the future.
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
The bigger the Barry, the sweeter the juice.[/quote]
LMAO
[quote]PGA200X wrote:
tarfu81 wrote:
I think that if any player was proven to have taken illegal performance enhancing drugs then they do not belong in the hall.
END OF DISCUSSION! Barry was NEVER proven to take ANYTHING illegal.[/quote]
He admitted taking “the cream” and “the clear” to a grand jury.
Weren’t those illegal?
He claimed he didn’t know what they were but that is silly.
[quote]DPH wrote:
tarfu81 wrote:
I just think that if we allow steroids in baseball then that is sending the wrong message to our youth.
uh oh…
the old ‘save the childern’ argument…
AAS should be legal for anyone over the age of twenty-one just as alcohol and nicotine are…
adults should have to right to choose for themselves…[/quote]
DHP you are a fool.You don’t need no damn steroids.Take a look at me.Prime example.I’ve been doing westside for skinny bastards and look at me now.I mean damn!!!
[quote]psyconid wrote:
erknjerk wrote:
Yes Bonds is the ONLY one that used steroids, NO pitcher ever used them. The whole league used and it was not against the rules it was just illegal.
Exactly. It is the fault of the MLB for not testing for steroids not Bonds of anyother player.
Get real this is a PRO sport with HUGE stakes and you aren’t gonna test your atheletes for steroids? Every other sport in the world tests for doping because if you don’t then it might as well not be against the rules.[/quote]
MLB knew exactly what was going on and they took full advantage of it.
As with any sport you have to judge an athlete next to his peers. Bonds’ peers had access to the same enhances as he did and many took advantage of that.
Baseball is a sport with eras, the deadball era, the liveball era, WWII era, the big strike zone era, the small hill (2nd dead ball) era, then small ball came into play and there was a loss of power, then there was steroid era.
There have always been cheats in every era, and bad individual athletes as well. Testing was not official for this era of baseball until recently. Rules were not established until recently. It is rules that end an era and there are always those carry overs from it.
Those in this era should not penalized for their time that they played in. Guys that threw spitters, took greeneis, corked their bats, they all did it legally at one point. Plenty of them are in the hall.
Baseball is a game of numbers from the past, but you cannot compare the players from era to era as easily as many people would like to. Compare them to their peers from their era.
At this moment Bonds (pre and post steroids) is the best hitter in his era, and he deserves to be judged by the HOF committee for enshrinement.
[quote]Rome34 wrote:
As with any sport you have to judge an athlete next to his peers. Bonds’ peers had access to the same enhances as he did and many took advantage of that.
Baseball is a sport with eras, the deadball era, the liveball era, WWII era, the big strike zone era, the small hill (2nd dead ball) era, then small ball came into play and there was a loss of power, then there was steroid era.
There have always been cheats in every era, and bad individual athletes as well. Testing was not official for this era of baseball until recently. Rules were not established until recently. It is rules that end an era and there are always those carry overs from it.
Those in this era should not penalized for their time that they played in. Guys that threw spitters, took greeneis, corked their bats, they all did it legally at one point. Plenty of them are in the hall.
Baseball is a game of numbers from the past, but you cannot compare the players from era to era as easily as many people would like to. Compare them to their peers from their era.
At this moment Bonds (pre and post steroids) is the best hitter in his era, and he deserves to be judged by the HOF committee for enshrinement.[/quote]
Nice post and some very good points made, Rome.
I’m assuming from your avatar you play minor league ball somewhere? College? (I’m not saying this has anything to do with your knowledge on the subject matter; I just love the game so much, like hearing from guys about where they play, their experiences, etc.).
[quote]PGA200X wrote:
tarfu81 wrote:
I think that if any player was proven to have taken illegal performance enhancing drugs then they do not belong in the hall.
END OF DISCUSSION! Barry was NEVER proven to take ANYTHING illegal.[/quote]
And OJ was never PROVEN to have killed anyone…
Bonds stats pre 1998 were good but not great. I think he hit .285 with fair power.
I don’t think he was close to being the top hitter in the game.
He was All Star material but maybe not HOF. It would have been close.
His stats after 1998 are amazing and probably the best of all time.
This article and that book are BS.
How the hell do they know Bonds actually told Anderson to “F off i will do it myself” when he actually adviced him against a cycle? Were these reporters there on the spot?