[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
I must have missed something, here…because in a post above didn’t you say the CC companies should have to bear some of the responsibility too?
But here you seem to be saying they don’t.[/quote]
I said that personal ignorance trumps evil business practices. I am not trying to excuse the CC companies for predatory marketing - I just think that ignorance is worse.
[quote]100meters wrote:
If the bill just stopped irresponsible borrowers then great, but it also hurts families recovering from things like medical bills, etc. With medical reasons being 50 percent of bankruptcies, not to mention things like unemployment, it’s pretty obvious this a sell out to credit card companies and lenders, who exploited the misperceptions of bankruptcy, and lobbied hard for the bill($620,000 for Delay’s PACS, and $26 million for Republicans last election)
[/quote]
That’s not entirely true. 50% of of the folks filing bankruptcy may have medical bills, but that is not the main source of their debt. I think BB has already refuted this falsehood once before.
So if we have a medical bill - do we recieve a ‘get out of debt free card’ too?
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
100meters wrote:
. And worse to me some damn democrats actually signed this crap too.
funniest part of it–to me–is that most of the republicans who signed it believe in it or fell for it, whichever (rolling eyes) but the democrats that voted for it did it only for political reasons–selling out, as it were, the people for the money.
Like Biden.[/quote]
I doubt Republicans believed in it(what would they be believing in?) or fell for it, but you get a favor, and you return a favor. I wouldn’t be suprised if some of the Dems that signed got a couple of “favors” themselves, as for Biden and a couple of others, I can justify (but totally disagree) voting on behalf of a company in your own state, the others …gross.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
I must have missed something, here…because in a post above didn’t you say the CC companies should have to bear some of the responsibility too?
But here you seem to be saying they don’t.
I said that personal ignorance trumps evil business practices. I am not trying to excuse the CC companies for predatory marketing - I just think that ignorance is worse.
[/quote]
okay. I agree with that.
Thanks for the clarification–I thought you were pulling a ProfX there for a minute, trying to argue both sides.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
That’s not entirely true. 50% of of the folks filing bankruptcy may have medical bills, but that is not the main source of their debt. I think BB has already refuted this falsehood once before.
So if we have a medical bill - do we recieve a ‘get out of debt free card’ too?[/quote]
B.B. didn’t refute it, he simply put an article from Gail Heriot of the National Review on the board which misleads readers on the results of the study, For some reason Gail didn’t want National Review readers to know that medical reasons could prevent people from “working” which would be medical leading to bankrupty.
[quote]100meters wrote:
B.B. didn’t refute it, he simply put an article from Gail Heriot of the National Review on the board which misleads readers on the results of the study, For some reason Gail didn’t want National Review readers to know that medical reasons could prevent people from “working” which would be medical leading to bankrupty.
[/quote]
I think the chart you linked to is horribly misleading in and of itself.
21% were out at least two weeks due to injury or illness? Can the numbers be any more skewed? I’m sure that they could have come up with 100% medically related BR’s if they had only shortened this to 3 days or more. If 21% of those filing BR had missed more than 2 months of work due to illness or injury - I’d be right with you. But it’s not
27% of those filing BR had uncovered medical bills in excess of $1000 over the past two years? Now if that number were $10,000 or more and the rate was 27%, I’d be in your corner - but it’s not.
There are millions of people included in your graph that, though they qualify for medical BR according to these numbers, are bankrupt because they spent far more than they could repay.
Since I fall into both of those categories - will you pay off my debt, because…well…it is a medical problem.
[quote]Operaman wrote:
… I have always had great credit and made my payments on time. However, recently I was late on one payment and ALL my cards raised my interest to near 30%. Concurrently, my minimum payments were raised as well, far above where I can afford them.
[/quote]
Thanks for posting Operaman, sorry to hear about your financial corn-holing, buddy.
Guys: This is the kind of shit that needs to be reformed. This is total bullshit. This is what happened to my girlfriends that declared as well. It could be argued that the CC companies create bankruptcies by doing this.
I remember from the other thread that somebody said that declaring bankruptcy is stealing. Does it look like Operaman is stealing? C’mon… pay back what you owe? The CC companies are making us pay back triple or quadruple! This is LOAN SHARKING, not “good business practice”.
CC companies are doing better than ever. Do we really need to bend over even further for them?
Quit bitching. Vote with your dollar. Or better yet fuck them over.
Get a credit card with no annual fee and pay it off each month. Sure they get a bit of money from each store you use it at. But they’re not getting a dime from you.
Its how I plan on handling my credit cards and how my parents handle theres.
Sorry man… It sucks you made a late payment and such. I’ve seen a lot of people get that wiped from their records and no one cares. Most places will work with you. I don’t know why your situation turned out so shitty.
What was dropping your score down to ~700, if I’m not mistaken that is a second tier score that doesn’t get your the best rate which is reserved for ~750+?
[quote]Atreides wrote:
The Mage wrote:
Got 4 grand lying around?
You should. It’s called savings.[/quote]
That is exactly what I am talking about. The biggest reason people don’t have that money lying around is because they are spending that money they should be saving on stupid debt.
Now people are mentioning Dave Ramsey. Yes his stuff works, and quite well. I don’t agree with everything, but what is disagree with is really insubstantial.
He does preach avoiding bankruptcy, and trying your best to avoid it, although he has actually, and rarely, told people they really had to.
Also he is absolutely against the bankruptcy legislation. He blames the credit card companies, specifically mentioning how they give credit to dogs and dead people. And he calls creditors the scum of the Earth.
It is surprising how well a budget can help. You do a budget, spend a few months getting use to being on a budget, and suddenly you wonder where all that money was going, and are surprised at how much you have to work with.
Everyone check out Dave Ramsey. He has his last 10 radio shows archived here:
http://daveramsey.com/radio/home/index.cfm?FuseAction=dspContent&strMode=dspShowArchives
30 hours total, although it includes commercials. (Easy to skip past.) You could buy his book, but if you listen to this many hours, you learn exactly what is in his book.
The only reason you could really disagree with what he says is because you want stuff, and you want it right now. (Damn I want that Carbolin 19)
720+ is the top tier for FICO scores, so yeah I’m a bit below that. Here’s the real kicker though. As I approached my total credit limit, my debt-credit ratio got worse and worse, thus lowering my FICO, which as I look back now was raising my interest even then. SOOOOOOO, even when I had my perfect payment history for over 7 years, my FICO went down as my debt went up, and as it got harder to manage, my creditors rewarded my loyalty and credit by raising my interest rates. Then when I finally did send in a late payment, they all jacked me up to somehwere between 25 and 30%!!!
I called two of my biggest creditors just yesterday and told them I was going to be meeting with my attorney about a bankruptcy and asked if they would be willing to work out any sort of arrangement where I could repay my debt and avoid the BK. I guess I don’t need to say what they said: nope! For my situation, I feel I’ve made every good faith effort to arrange a reasonable payback strategy, but no creditor has been willing to do much of anything for at least 6 months, some for a year!
Just to toss some numbers in the pot… before my missed payment(which was immediately caught up mind you!), my monthly minimums were running me around 300 bucks. BUT, after jacking my interest and minimum payments, I now owe well over 500 dollars a month!
Maybe some people are just trying to screw the system, but many of us value our good name and good credit and want to keep it intact, but our creditors just won’t give us the leeway to work something out that we can deal with.
I think it also depends on which creditors you’re with. Some like Citibank which owns many various cards are notoriously stubborn, as is MBNA. Discover on the other hand is known for being much more lenient. Once I missed a payment with them and they agreed to waive the late fee and not report it to my bureaus! If only they were my only creditor!
I guess it depends where you get your loans for which tier. My bank is 750. Not to mention your score can range over 40 points from Transunion to other various places.
Bummer man. Get a budget. Learn to manage debt. Have fun paying cash for 7 years.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Damn, that was elitist. I know quite a few people who wouldn’t be able to save that much due to just coming in even on paying bills and taking care of kids. While I am sure the goal is to have a decent savings account, I would be surprised if the majority of the people in this country could actually do so at the present.[/quote]
I am not trying to be offensive.
Sometimes, the truth hurts.
The bankruptcy issue aside -the real issue is personal responsibility. Unfortunately, we live in a “free ride” "someone owes me a living " society.
Here is a great tip for anyone on this board. You need to spend less than you earn.
This works for those who make $5 an hour or $5 a minute.
It’s so simple, most people miss it.
What’s really sad is that this bill to protect financers “just happens” to be coinciding with the economic collapse.
Before the election, the Freepers were trumpeting the “booming” economy while the “ABB crowd” we were called, were saying that this administration does not give ONE SHIT about YOU, the working class. The economy was NEVER booming under this administration yet the radical right wingers kept repeating “booming economy” like some mystic chant.
This economic turn down did not just happen over the past month – of course some of us were well aware of it over A YEAR AGO.
General Motors is the HEART of our economy and is about to go junk bond status and they are predicting to shit can at least 20, 000 American workers – this bankruptcy reform bill is being prepared for the coming wave of backrupcties that are coming down – and not to protect YOU.
While the “ABBers” were trying to talk about real issues, the Radicals were arguing about Bush’s guard memos…
It’s a shame, most people who voted for Bush could have known/should have known this kind of stuff before the election. (The irony is Bush never did fullfill his guard duty or has never proved it)
Top Six contributors to Bush 2004
Morgan Stanley - $600,480
Merrill Lynch - $580,004
PriceWaterhouseCoopers - $512,500
UBS Americas - $468,075
Goldman Sachs - $388,600
MBNA Corp - $354,350
Wanna see a real eye-opening article:
Pirates of the Caribbean
http://www.safehaven.com/article-2764.htm
FOUR MORE YEARS!!!
Operaman. Have you thought about surfing those cards? If your credit is still acceptable, it shouldn?t be too hard.
I would recommend sending in applications in handwriting, as I have heard that they only randomly check credit, and a balance transfer most likely would give you a short time with no/low interest, and still end up with a lower interest rate. Just avoid anything with an annual payment.
I do have a question, is the recent legislation causing you to file because you are afraid you might not be able to later?
Anyway, avoid those credit counseling services because most are either crooked, or just incompetent.
Find and read the about the fair debt collections act. Also, find out what the laws are regarding recording phone conversations in your state. If you can, record those conversations. If not, keep written records of all those conversations. Do not trust them, not one bit. Creditors will lie.
If you do pay, only pay with a check, never give them access to your bank account electronically, and if there is any deal made like a reduced settlement, unless it is in writing. If they don?t put it in writing, then they are lying.
Now if things are just starting to get bad, then it is probably still possible to avoid bankruptcy. Many people do not file until it is at the point that it will not matter to their credit. A common time is when they are sued.
If you do file though, whatever you do, do not make the mistake of trying to rebuild your credit. Once you file, the worst of the worst will send you credit offers, and by going along all you will do is get back into debt without the chance of filing again.
Whether you do or not, please check out daveramsey.com and listen to all the shows, possibly buy his book. If you actually listen to him, you will never have this problem again.
JustTheFacts, yep, everything is Bush?s fault. If there is an economic downturn, it is because of high oil energy prices, which you probably will blame on him also, because obviously everything is Bush?s fault.
Anyway I see a slowdown, but not the doom and gloom you are attempting to portray. If Kerry had won you would be raving about the booming economy right now.
But I believe Bush and the Republicans did really drop the ball on this bankruptcy bill.
[quote]Atreides wrote:
Here is a great tip for anyone on this board. You need to spend less than you earn.
This works for those who make $5 an hour or $5 a minute.
It’s so simple, most people miss it.
[/quote]
I think you missed my point. That is a great goal to have and I hope that most can eventually reach that goal. However, what do you say to the young people who had a kid while still in high school and now only has a job that pays just enough for child support and the light bill? In my own life, the goal was to do well enough to avoid simply breaking even. How ridiculous would it be, however, for me to ignore what many people have to deal with. You do realize there are poor people in this country, right? They do exist.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
However, what do you say to the young people who had a kid while still in high school and now only has a job that pays just enough for child support and the light bill?
[/quote]
Doesn’t that still boil down to personal responsibility?
Don’t fuck around if you can’t afford a kid.
http://www.littlepiggy.net/deficit/index.php
[quote]The Mage wrote:
JustTheFacts, yep, everything is Bush?s fault. If there is an economic downturn, it is because of high oil energy prices, which you probably will blame on him also, because obviously everything is Bush?s fault.[/quote]
But on your side of the fence nothing seems to be Bush’s fault. If FDR would have been the last elected Democrat, his name would probably still be brought up today as a cause of our woes.
BTW, “W” owns all of this – history will remember Bush as the Pres during 9/11, the debacle in Iraq, highest deficit, worst job record, lowest approval rating of a second term pres, worst record on terrorism (YES, terrorism - the one thing everyone thought he was doing best) - it’s all his baby.
You see only a “slowdown” because you largely dismissed any negative news as a scheming liberal attack on Bush and not as a serious warning. It reminds me of the woman who said she watches FOX News because on FOX, we’re winning the war in Iraq.
US bankruptcies ‘to surge’ amid junk bond deluge
February 24, 2005
THE US is heading for a surge in bankruptcies and a dramatic increase in corporate debt default as the number of companies with bonds rated at the lowest end of the junk bond scale reaches record levels.
America Smells the Coffee
Bush win a relief for India’s outsourcing industry
UPI Business Correspondent
Published November 5, 2004
CALCUTTA, India – The return of U.S. President George Bush for a second term has made India’s money-spinning outsourcing industry heave a huge sigh of relief, with outsourcing outfits and the IT-enabled services community across the country discreetly uncorking the bubbly.
Indeed, India’s information technology sectors – which include information technology-enabled services like call centers, voice transcription, financial transaction processing and the like – had been spooked by challenger John Kerry’s strident campaign over job losses in the United States. The Kerry campaign not only put the spotlight on outsourcing of jobs to countries like India, but also threatened to pull the plug on a lucrative source of revenue for this economy, which has been struggling to develop over the past 12 years.
Kerry’s policy assertions during the run-up to the polls – like his statements about redrawing strategy to fight terror – too were a source of some discomfort for India.
Therefore, said the newspaper Times of India, "a regime change would have introduced a new set of uncertainties and would have required the government to concentrate its energies on convincing the US about India’s position all over again. Given this context, re-election of Bush means India can hit the track running."
The Bush win clears a few worry lines for the Indian industry too.
http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20041105-022025-7648r
The Next Wave Of Offshoring
March 2005
Over the next decade, offshoring will knock millions of white-collar Americans and Europeans out of work, blowing a hole in the middle class from Los Angeles to London, from Boston to Berlin, from Toledo to Tokyo, from Austin to Amsterdam.
“I don’t think most people appreciate the magnitude of the change in the world’s workforce,” says Intel’s chief executive, Craig Barrett. “Over the next 10 years you are going to see major, major dislocation,” he warns. He should know. Intel is hiring thousands of new workers overseas.
Big and small companies alike in industry after industry have done the math and are rushing to move even their most specialized jobs to Asia to cut wages by between half and four-fifths. “We’re now outsourcing investment banking to Mumbai,” says Stephen Roach, chief economist at Morgan Stanley. “I don’t know why we would ever hire another software programmer in New York again.”
http://www.feer.com/articles1/2005/0503/free/p019.html
“Drop the ball” means mistake - this is no mistake. As has been said over and over and over again - they cater ENTIRELY to INDUSTRY and not to you or me or any low or middle class working stiff. The middle class is on the down side of it’s zenith.
Hey you should be proud - your boy won - and India thanks you.
[quote]doogie wrote:
Professor X wrote:
However, what do you say to the young people who had a kid while still in high school and now only has a job that pays just enough for child support and the light bill?
Doesn’t that still boil down to personal responsibility?
Don’t fuck around if you can’t afford a kid.
[/quote]
That was brilliant. Can I write that down? This isn’t about the lessons you teach people who haven’t done that yet. This is about the people ALREADY in situations like that. Is this really that hard to understand? ADD, anyone?
