Balancing an Unbalanced System

Labs (03/04/2012)

Progesterone 0.30 nmol/l 0.4 - 3.1
S-17b-Oestradiol 112 pmol/L 40 - 161
Testosterone (total) 15.2 nmol/l
SHBG 54.90 nmol/l 11.9 - 55.8
Free Test 222 pmol/L 180 - 739
DHEA 6.32 umol/L Males 20 - 29 range: 7.82 - 15.77 umol/L
PSA 0.69 ng/mL 0.0 - 4.0
Cortisol 188 nmol/l 101 - 535

-age 26
-height 5.11
-waist 29
-weight 64 - 66

-describe body and facial hair
Dense facial hair
Chest hair
But generally not that hairy

-health conditions, symptoms [history]
Once trained myself into a catabolic state urine was dark red, had an x-ray like a venography where they inject you with white liquid to determine if there are any cancers came out clean and over time my system balanced out again.
Picked up chlamydia from an ex but it was very mild, treated with anti-biotics.

-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever
Propecia for 5 years, initially increased the dose 1mg - 1.5mg for 6 months and then to 2mg’s for the last 3 months (the 2 mgs dosing was inconsistent).
Initially was put on antibiotics (1000 mg Cipro/doxy) for 6 weeks with no effect.
Diagnosed by my urologist with chronic prostatitis, basically told i’m doomed.

-describe diet [some create substantial damage with starvation diets]
My diets generally very good, I eat throughout the day, I stay away from sugar altogether.
Drink a lot of tea.
I still eat quiet a bit of wheat and carbohydrates.

-describe training [some ruin there hormones by over training]
As mentioned I have overtrained before.
I’ve also had an ACL operations on both my knees.
Cut down on the amount of sport I play.

-testes ache, ever, with a fever?
Initially before my prostate went hay wire my testes ached for two weeks particularly the left one.
My kidneys were also painful which I thought was lower back pain.
As of now my testes have started to ache again which is worrying but no fever.

-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed
Initially with propecia didn’t really have morning woods but never a problem with getting it up.
When I stopped my erections were much harder and way more frequent in the morning
Now I have erections in the morning every now an again, I would say the penis is working fine

My Story

I started having prostate problems late February this year 2012 and its been ongoing since then. I was diagnosed with chronic prostatitis by my urologist so its benign.

He gave me an androgen blocker (Cadura) which I haven’t taken and have subsequently learnt won’t correct the cause of the problem.

I stopped propecia about 3 months ago and my system has still not come back to normal. (i.e my prostate is inflamed, its very uncomfortable, slow stream etc)

I’ve read through hundreds of posts now and i’ve come to the conclusion that I probably have a high estrodial level which is causing the inflamed prostate and not allowing the free testosterone to bind to receptors and correct and balance my system.

I believe this was caused by upping the dose of the propecia. This impacted on my aromatization which then as stated above caused my body to produce too much estrodial.

My knowledge is still very new but i’ve come to the conclusion that I need to get on Arimidex as soon as possible 1/4 dose twice a week.

I’m not quiet sure whether I need to be on Test shots or a full TRT program?

I’m going for blood tests tomorrow to test DHT, prolactin, cholesterol and estrodiol since my doctor on the first test decided i didn’t need to test this and I was to naive to know better.

When my system balances out i’m hoping to get back on propecia, is this a bad idea?

Is there anything else I should be testing?

Am I thinking in the right direction?

Ok so here are the ranges: 0-161 pmol/L for estrodiol so my levels are very high 112 although converting that to pg/ml is round 30 which seems normal?

But my progesterone is 0.30 below range of 0.4 - 3.1?

Should I be going onto arimidex instead of trying something less evasive such as Rez-v or nettle root?

The Doc said he couldn’t test DHT directly its made up of a number of things which I understand but then how do you get a DHT reading?

New Bloods Thursday 24/05/2012

Progesterone 0.30 nmol/l 0.4 - 3.1
estradiol 81 pmol/L 40 - 161
Test (total) 16.1
SHBG 38.50 nmol/l 11.9 - 55.8
Free test 304 pmol/L 180 - 739
Androstenedione 1.7 ng/mL 0.6 - 3.1
Prolactin 10.7 ng/mL 2.6 - 18.1
PSA 0.86 ng/ml 0.0 - 4.0

Wow so i’m not really understanding whats going on here.

It seems that my test has gone up and my estradiol down yet my prostate still feels like shit.

On Saturday (26/05/2012) i did my first 1/4 of Arimidex but now i’m starting to question whether its the estrogen thats causing the problem.

In addition my PSA has just about doubled… worrying

Can anyone shed some light on what exactly is going on here?

Test up, estradiol down = feeling better (prostate especially) BUT i’m not?

I consider myself a healthy eater but my cholesterol is also high…

Quick update:

Starting to feel better, it’s only been four days and people i’m speaking to are saying thats way to early to tell if the arimidex is having any effect.

Placebo effect or not my prostate region is feeling less troublesome than usual.

I have had some aches and pains in the pectoral region, any ideas? maybe just a balancing out…

I’m also feeling a bit more emotional / depressed, i’m guessing this could be the hormonal shift… T up & E down

Quick update

My prostate flared up a bit last night but its feeling good this morning.

I’m starting to realize that this is a slow process.

One thing I am concerned about is that I have pain in my pectoral’s both left and right. The pain starts just below the collar bone and rises up into the collar bone and then into the neck…

Anyone have ideas or experienced this before.

It could be a result of the Arimidex, i’m not training yet so all roads point towards that.

Maybe the years of propecia has caused my pec’s to store excess estrogen an now its being cleared out… I’ll do a bit or research…

I had chronic prostatitis a few years ago. After months of Cipro, I discovered that the high-priced urologists just didn’t have any other tools. They were happy to repeatedly charge me to prescribe more antibiotics, which weren’t working.

So I did my own research, and found Dr. Prof. Ibrahim Adnan Saracoglu’s treatment to be the least intrusive, and least expensive. I was already eating plenty of broccoli at the time, and his website looked a little nutty, but I tried the treatment, and it worked!

http://www.prostatitis.org/broccindex.html

It MAY be doing the same thing as Arimidex, only naturally. I’m not sure. And it is slow, 21 days. But it does work, as you will see when you take one of the breaks in the protocol.

For a second I thought you were trying to sell me something…

I appreciate the reply, i’ll be buying some broccoli tomorrow to test the treatment out…

I think it has the same action as arimidex, lowering estrogen but i’m sure I read somewhere that you need to eat loads of the stuff to have any effect…

Nevertheless i’m going to try it out.

Quick update

I’m going to try and take a 1/4 propecia this week to halt the hairloss process.

Hopefully my body reacts well to it, i’m quiet worried…

Update:

Been on this broccoli treatment for a week, it seems to be easing the prostatitis especially the inflammation.

Although my prostate is still ranging from being inflamed to easing of the inflammation.

I have been on arimidex for almost 2 weeks now, dosing 1/4 every three days.

Is it having an affect? Definitely.

From what i’ve gathered your body takes a while to cycle out the bad estrogen.

I have to admit whenever I hit the toilet for a serious dump, I have a bit of a relapse.

My prostate will act up for the rest of the day, not sure why this is, i think it has to do with the disturbance of the prostate.

I was heavy into mountain biking when I had prostatitis. Owww!

Good to hear the treatment is working. You’ll probably find you’ve made more progress than you suspect when you take one of the breaks in the program.

You are aware of how propecia works? I think I’d rather go bald.

I hear ya, I was quiet a heavy road cyclist.

Yeah starting to finally feel normal again, slowly but surely.

Yeah I know how it works but losing your hair in your 20s… Not great, I don’t wish it on anyone.

Lasting out a few more years is my aim… Being bald is inevitable for anyone who has MPB

Update:

I think I found a big part of the reason why my prostate went mad after double dosing propecia for a while…

Heres an article:

"What’s reflex hyperandrogenicity?

A: When the effects of androgens in the body are lessened, e.g. through lowering DHT or by systemic hormone receptor blockade, the body seeks equilibrium through a process called upregulation. This can take the form of increased hormone production and/or increased tissue sensitivity to the remaining hormones. The reason side effects usually gradually disappear with finasteride is probably due to such upregulation. In a small percentage of individuals, it may be that this process overshoots the mark, resulting in significant hyperandrogenicity. This is marked by such signs as greatly increased facial oil, increased pimples, and greatly elevated libido. It’s possible that in certain cases such hyperandrogenicity overcomes the hair-protective effect of, say, finasteride, though this does not appear to be the case for the vast majority of people."

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/hair_loss_research/hyperandrogenicity.cfm

This is the whole article… as i’ve read many times on this forum once you change your hormones for a sustained period your body seeks equilibrium an up-regulates whatever is lacking.

My hypothesis: while I was lowering DHT my body started producing more testosterone to make up for the lack of DHT, which makes sense why over time propecia loses its effectiveness and hairloss doctors advise upping the dose. In my case I upped the dose to quickly and by too much leading to an abnormally high level of unwanted hormones especially estradiol considering the fact that increased testosterone = increased estradiol. This unwanted hormone then upset my prostate.

Update:

The broccoli treatment is working but I had a weekend of sex which was in between the 3 day rest period of the broccoli, unfortunately my prostate acted up again. I’m guessing this is in relation to a release of hormones due to the sex…

Update:

Last week was the first week where my prostate was back to normal…

Although it only lasted a week, my prostates enlargement seems to vary from day to day and although I believe i’m making progress, nothings constant at the moment…

I think last weeks normality was definitely because i upped the arimidex dose 1/4 EOD…

As of now, the prostates not feeling bad but it is a little enlarged…

It really would be nice if I got some feedback from someone, anyone who might have some idea about whats going on here?

Prostate enlargement issues are way outside my area of comfort, but I attribute a lot of those issues to E2 problems.

My experience with uros is that they have very little understanding about prostatitis. Once they’ve put you through their list of antibiotics, and desperate guesses like sitz baths, they’re tapped out. I think you’ve found that out.

That’s why I suggested Saracoglu to you. It worked for me, and it apparently worked for you. Did you complete the cycles? I took an extra cycle, just for good luck. Even then, it took some time for things to settle down.

Hay guys thanks for the replies

VT when looking at my bloods especially the first one would you agree that my estrodiol levels although within range were a bit on the high side?

The taking of arimidex and subsequent settling down of the prostate seem to suggest the same.

I am about to finish my fourth arimidex pill but initially I was dosing 1/4 E3D BUT for the last 1 & 1/2 pills i’ve been dosing 1/4 EOD, it really seems to be kicking into gear with the new dosage… what kind of timespan should I be looking to get off this stuff? will my body adjust to these new levels or is this just guess work?

dooright, I couldn’t agree with you more about the uros and once again thanks for paying attention to my posts… I have to say the broccoli is definitely working… I completed the 21 day cycle but like you I have carried on… going onto 28th week.

What kind of timespan did it settle down for you? howz your prostate now, any further problems?

What about adding DIM and calcium d glucarate, DIM in particular seems to operate similarly to the broccoli treatment?

I keep thinking that if my prostate goes back to normal then I can manage the propecia levels with natural estrogen blockers and save a bit of my twenties…

Your E2 does look fine to me. 81 ~ 23 or so in the units we are accostomed to working with, and as you mentioned in the other test, 112 ~ 30. I honestly see no reason for alarm with either, but if the adex is helping you, then I understand it would be tough to discontinue it. Truthfully this is not an area I feel comfortable at all advising on.

Settle down? I’m 62. I have good days, and I have bad days. I don’t look at them as problems anymore, just the wondrous cycles of life.

Yes, I think there is something in common between DIM, broccoli, and Adex. But no, I don’t think it is all that simple, and it doesn’t all come down to an easy equation of T vs. Adex.

Propecia? I’ll pull my hair out and set it on fire before I’d mess with that stuff!