[quote]jsbrook wrote:
swivel wrote:
why not just do some anaerobic threshold work or some intervals. ya know indian runs or hill repeats or something. just being in shape would help you clear a lot more la than taking a supp and not being in shape. and if you are in shape and can already go at your a.t. for a half hour or more there’s a product called cytomax which works really well.
It doesn’t matter. You definitely need to be doing lactate threshold work, pure speed work, and base work as an athlete. But it doesn’t matter how in shape you are. You could be in the Olympics, and you’ll have tremendous lactic acid buildup at the end of a 400 meter sprint or 800 meter run and be in serious extremis. It just comes with the territory. If beta alanine can somehow reduce this buildup which negatively affects performance, then that’s a good thing.[/quote]
being in shape will also enable you to re-use a lot more l.a. as energy than not.
Concern over lactic acid build up at high intensities is of concern, but not due to lactate. At physiological pH, >99.9% of lactic acid dissociates into ionic form (lactate + H+), and they are created in equimolar concentrations within the cell. Any increase in H+ will decrease pH and if the intensity of exercise increases, the rate of appearance of lactate and H+ exceeds the rate of removal, and a net decrese in pH occurs. When this happens, PFK, the rate limiting enzyme in glycolysis is negatively effected, essentially trying to slow down the rate of lactate and H+ formation. There is also some indications that muscle acidity is indeed a cause of fatigue, but lactate ions themselves may impair skeletal muscle function directly. H+ ions are also thought to reduce contractile function, activate inhibitory muscle spindles and activate nociceptors (pain-related nerve afferents), and are generally thought to be the main culprit, not lactate.
Infusion of lactate itself will have no negative consequences on performance, and may actually stimulate glyconeogenesis and oxidation in slow twitch fibers. The negative on performace is decreasing pH due to the proton-donation characteristic of acids, and lactic acid is a strong acid and donates protons readily.
Bicarbonate loading does increase pH and prolong exercise, but the risks (i.e. GI distress) may not be worth the rewards (slight increase in performace time).
If you’re having problems working out with high lactate(H+) levels, don’t worry, nobody’s died from acidosis, puked for sure, but no worries. So push yourself hard and you’ll soon develop a tolerance for it, and who knows, you may even begin to like it.
(see Juel, C., (1997) Lactate-proton cotransport in skeletal muscle. Phyiological Reviews. 77)2):321-58 for an excellent review of lactate/proton kinetics and impact (if you’re into that sort of thing!)
[quote]Kent Lorenz wrote:
If you’re having problems working out with high lactate(H+) levels, don’t worry, nobody’s died from acidosis, puked for sure, but no worries. So push yourself hard and you’ll soon develop a tolerance for it, and who knows, you may even begin to like it.
[/quote]
[quote]Kent Lorenz wrote:
Concern over lactic acid build up at high intensities is of concern, but not due to lactate. At physiological pH, >99.9% of lactic acid dissociates into ionic form (lactate + H+), and they are created in equimolar concentrations within the cell. Any increase in H+ will decrease pH and if the intensity of exercise increases, the rate of appearance of lactate and H+ exceeds the rate of removal, and a net decrese in pH occurs. When this happens, PFK, the rate limiting enzyme in glycolysis is negatively effected, essentially trying to slow down the rate of lactate and H+ formation. There is also some indications that muscle acidity is indeed a cause of fatigue, but lactate ions themselves may impair skeletal muscle function directly. H+ ions are also thought to reduce contractile function, activate inhibitory muscle spindles and activate nociceptors (pain-related nerve afferents), and are generally thought to be the main culprit, not lactate.
Infusion of lactate itself will have no negative consequences on performance, and may actually stimulate glyconeogenesis and oxidation in slow twitch fibers. The negative on performace is decreasing pH due to the proton-donation characteristic of acids, and lactic acid is a strong acid and donates protons readily.
Bicarbonate loading does increase pH and prolong exercise, but the risks (i.e. GI distress) may not be worth the rewards (slight increase in performace time).
If you’re having problems working out with high lactate(H+) levels, don’t worry, nobody’s died from acidosis, puked for sure, but no worries. So push yourself hard and you’ll soon develop a tolerance for it, and who knows, you may even begin to like it.
(see Juel, C., (1997) Lactate-proton cotransport in skeletal muscle. Phyiological Reviews. 77)2):321-58 for an excellent review of lactate/proton kinetics and impact (if you’re into that sort of thing!)[/quote]
Fatigue is a funny beast. The best explaination I’ve heard is that CP and ATP depletion are the root of fatigue. Also that to protect the cell from ATP depletion, muscle cell will down-regulate contraction to preserve more important function, such as ion gradients.
McArdyle’s syndrome patients lack LDH and can not make lactate nor the associated proton either, yet display the same ventilatory threshold as someone without said syndrome.
Finally, ATP degradation results in H+ formation and all glycolytic intermediates are weak organic acids with associated H+. These H+ probably stimulate pain receptors and may account for that burn we love.
The best way I’ve found to interpret fatigue and burn is having reached a point where the body is unable to cope with metabolic demand. This means that “lactate threshold training” is still effective, but termed and understood incorrectly.
I didnt read all the post butb\ just wanted to add on the PH balance and what not. If you are getting enough of your veggies and fruits, etc… then this should be enough to conteract the effects. I however just for ease and do the the high protein intake will simply put a tsp of baking soda in my coffe pot water. It has the ability of both keeping the pot clean and running good and buffering the acidic environment. As for performance enhancement cant say I can tell a difference. Its just habit now.
[quote]Phill wrote:
I didnt read all the post butb\ just wanted to add on the PH balance and what not. If you are getting enough of your veggies and fruits, etc… then this should be enough to conteract the effects. I however just for ease and do the the high protein intake will simply put a tsp of baking soda in my coffe pot water. It has the ability of both keeping the pot clean and running good and buffering the acidic environment. As for performance enhancement cant say I can tell a difference. Its just habit now.
My Take
Phill[/quote]
c’mon phill, you expect us to believe something as simple as a balanced diet will solve this one ? this is hardcore buddy ya know ? studies and scientists and chemicals and cutting edge shit ! hahaha !
The problem does in exist within the pH of the lactic acid. The body has an enhanced buffering system and rarely ever do the muscles go into shock or fatigue due to acidosis. The main problem lies within the structure of lactic acid or lactate. The body can only salvage about 1 or 2 molecules of ATP from the anaerobic pathways. These molecules of ATP come from that lactic acid. However, to operate effectively, the body needs a net gain in ATP via aerobic pathways with the pyruvate, acetyl CoA, glucose. Hence, the problem is not buffering lactic acid or the pH at all, the problem is getting ATP back into the cycle to produce more energy and lactic acid just is not a sufficient source of ATP.
Yes I know. Its amazing what food can do when not overlooked. LOL
The artist?? Thats one of mine.
[quote]swivel wrote:
Phill wrote:
I didnt read all the post butb\ just wanted to add on the PH balance and what not. If you are getting enough of your veggies and fruits, etc… then this should be enough to conteract the effects. I however just for ease and do the the high protein intake will simply put a tsp of baking soda in my coffe pot water. It has the ability of both keeping the pot clean and running good and buffering the acidic environment. As for performance enhancement cant say I can tell a difference. Its just habit now.
My Take
Phill
c’mon phill, you expect us to believe something as simple as a balanced diet will solve this one ? this is hardcore buddy ya know ? studies and scientists and chemicals and cutting edge shit ! hahaha !
[quote]Phill wrote:
Yes I know. Its amazing what food can do when not overlooked. LOL
The artist?? Thats one of mine.
swivel wrote:
Phill wrote:
I didnt read all the post butb\ just wanted to add on the PH balance and what not. If you are getting enough of your veggies and fruits, etc… then this should be enough to conteract the effects. I however just for ease and do the the high protein intake will simply put a tsp of baking soda in my coffe pot water. It has the ability of both keeping the pot clean and running good and buffering the acidic environment. As for performance enhancement cant say I can tell a difference. Its just habit now.
My Take
Phill
c’mon phill, you expect us to believe something as simple as a balanced diet will solve this one ? this is hardcore buddy ya know ? studies and scientists and chemicals and cutting edge shit ! hahaha !
[quote]David Barr wrote:
Sadly no, there are currently no legal sources of bulk Beta alanine.
[/quote]
Actually, there is! Just search a bit on google. I found one on what appears to be a big website. They sell beta-alanine and carnosine in its simple form.
SM I must emphasize that there are no legal sources of bulk beta alanine online, because they are in violation of the patent agreement.
Carnosine would ultimately yield the same results, but is too expensive to consider.
[quote]SprintMachine wrote:
David Barr wrote:
Sadly no, there are currently no legal sources of bulk Beta alanine.
Cheers
Actually, there is! Just search a bit on google. I found one on what appears to be a big website. They sell beta-alanine and carnosine in its simple form.
[quote]David Barr wrote:
SM I must emphasize that there are no legal sources of bulk beta alanine online, because they are in violation of the patent agreement.
[/quote]
Someone patented an amino acid???
I don’t know that anyone sells bulk carnosine, but you could ask…if there is demand, it will be sourced.
