Bad Ideas

RE: Leatham

I am not trying to take away anything from Leatham’s grip style. Hell, he and Brian Enos pretty much developed the modern “thumbs forward” style that is the de-facto standard now.

RE: Triggers

I am jealous of anyone with hands large enough that DA/SA or DAO autos like the M-9/92series are options. My hands are simply too fucking small. Anything with a longer trigger reach than a Gen 4 Glock and I start having real issues. Switching to a Gen 4 brought a huge reduction in random “why did my front sight dive off into yonder as I broke the shot” issues.

RE: Pat Mcnamara

I have heard great things about him. What stands out is that people seem to not just rave about the quality of teaching, or what they learned, but how infectious his fun/energy is. Comments like, I had so much fun…Oh, and now I can do x,y, and z better to. I have never even met the guy, but he seems like the answer to “What would the Randy Macho Man Savage character be like if he was an honest to god door kicker with a Special Forces career path?” Which is maybe not a question anyone actually asked, but watching this video proves that they should have.

Regards,

Robert A

[quote]mapwhap wrote:
I may be misquoting here, but I think it was Jim Cirillo that said you have to “get there fastest with the mostest”. (That may have been Jeff Cooper, actually…I dunno.)
[/quote]

That quote is usually mis-attributed to Lieutenant General Nathan Bedford Forest who was, in my estimation, the hands down greatest strategist of the Civil War. Usually the quote is written “I get’s there the firstist, with the mostist.”, as an attempt to portray him as a rube.

He was a self made millionare(I have seen statements of a worth above one million, and that was in antebellum dollars)before the war, where he enlisted as a private and gave his farewell address as a lieutenant general. He is credited with killing several dozen men in combat, and perhaps a few others in duels and fights. His cavalry doctrine, much of which utilized horses for mobility to sieze favorable ground rather than for glorious charges, is still studied and utilized today.

Of course he also helped found the KKK so I get where the “fuck that guy” sentiment comes from, because…really, fuck that guy.

I think the limerick mandate comes with mere awareness that a woman was rogered to death by rover in Limerick, bless us all, Ireland. Also, you have people under your command. Delegate. If “Compose a raunchy limerick about fatal beastiality.” doesn’t scream “Put the police explorers on it!” nothing does.

Regards,

Robert A

Robert,
Thank you very much for taking the time to post all that information. Soon as I have the time, I will study the options you post. Yes, I carry a Aimpoint, from personal experience, I like it better than the EOTECH, I carried in Iraq. I found the EOTECH (FOR ME) was sometimes hard to acquire in the very bright desert sunlight…I am sure others would have different views.

“Inside of 3 yards I think of it as a fighting problem, not a gunfighting problem.”

  • I really like this Robert…I am probably going to write that down and use that when I teach.

Does this seem workable, or am I learning the wrong lessons?(Seriously asking, I am not the qualified one here.)

  • I think you are taking the right lesson from all of it. I didn’t mention it before, but if we combine the now infamous “21 foot rule” regarding edged weapons with what we know about close range gunfighting, I can actually envision certain scenarios where it’s going to make more sense to close distance, or move off-line, or react with an unarmed tactic first before going to guns…and that’s regardless of the bad guy’s weapon system.

I think there are a lot of people out there who think that drawing their trusty 1911 at 3 feet is going to solve all of their problems. And in the long run, it might…but the trade off is that they are going to the hospital / morgue as well. Not the desired outcome, clearly.

So much just “depends”. Where am I at that exact moment in the “act / react” cycle? Does the bad guy already have me at gunpoint? Is he digging it out of his waistband? Do I know it’s a gun / edged weapon? Am I assaulting into a bad guy’s home and already have my gun up and ready? Am I the one on the ass end of an ambush? Am I off duty and in plainclothes? Is my family there? Where are they? How many feet apart are we? Etc, etc, etc.

You already see where this is going, I’m sure. To say “never move” when you’re up close is wrong…so is saying “always move”.

I’m gonna ask Idaho to chime in here as well, but I see the “best” solution as more one of principals, not tactics. Train your OODA loop under real stress, add a healthy dose of KISS to your response options, with a a loose translation of Occam’s Razor. Sounds to me like you already do that anyway, and you are clearly smart enough to avoid bad situations or disengage when you can. I’d say you are good to go…at least as well as any of us can be.

And regarding the limerick…no, sir. I don’t delegate tasks like that. First rule of leadership…lead by example, and never ask your guys to do something you can’t. I’m gonna nail it…you’ll see. :slight_smile:

Oh…and regarding the XS sights…they are great, but the post is pretty fat and square, which causes problems with target acquisition at longer ranges.

As for McNamara…I’ve heard it said that he could teach algebra, and make it interesting to learn. He’s a very enthusiastic and gifted instructor. If you get the chance to attend one of his classes, do so. Paul Howe is also excellent. You can’t go wrong with either one.


Robert/ Mapwrap,
Great comments and information. some thoughts:

“Inside of 3 yards I think of it as a fighting problem, not a gunfighting problem.”

  • I really like this Robert…I am probably going to write that down and use that when I teach."

X2 on stealing this quote for myself.

“I think the Hack, CAP, and Trijicon HD are great options for someone looking for a “faster” close quarters pistol sight.”

I am in agreement with your research and analysis. I dont think the ghost ring is the best choice. I have a desire for a Glock 41, will be trying to decide on the best sighting system. I guess a lazer sight would be the hot item, but, I have a little experince with them, and they are not all that visiable in harsh sunlight (for me) and I really have no basis for this, but, I just dont trust them to deliver when the shit hits the fan. Maybe , technology has vastly improved in the last couple of years, and I have been in the boonies too long to know. :slight_smile:

“His observations are that novices benefit from them, but that very soon it holds them back in terms of accuracy at long range, or on fast difficult shots at close range”.

Could you expand on this a little? I consider anything over 15 yards to be “long distance” in a pistol gunfight. What does he mean by “fast difficult shots” hard to acquire a sight picture? hard to make a accurate shot on a small exposed target? just curious.

“I think you will find that it isn’t all blondes and blow jobs”.

Damn, stealing this one also…pretty much sums up my life:)

“I think you are taking the right lesson from all of it. I didn’t mention it before, but if we combine the now infamous “21 foot rule” regarding edged weapons with what we know about close range gunfighting, I can actually envision certain scenarios where it’s going to make more sense to close distance, or move off-line, or react with an unarmed tactic first before going to guns…and that’s regardless of the bad guy’s weapon system.”

Totally agree with Mapwrap: If the picture comes through you can see where I made a rookie mistake in allowing a 95 lb. female get too close and slice my butt. Had I gone for my gun, instead of blading my body and slamming her head into the apartment wall, she would have cut me 6 ways from Sunday.

IMHO, this is the area where a “martial arts of any style” trained officer has a distinct advantage over a non trained officer. Self awareness of distance and proper response is automatic in a trained officer, verses an officer who only relies on his handgun to solve every situation. Often there is NO time, to do anything but react with your body, either “sweeping” a weapon from the kill zone, or creating distance to engage with your own weapon.

" I’m gonna ask Idaho to chime in here as well, but I see the “best” solution as more one of principals, not tactics. Train your OODA loop under real stress, add a healthy dose of KISS to your response options, with a a loose translation of Occam’s Razor. Sounds to me like you already do that anyway, and you are clearly smart enough to avoid bad situations or disengage when you can. I’d say you are good to go…at least as well as any of us can be."

Again,we totally agree. A fundamental base in principles leads to a strong mental combat mindset, tactics are the Katas of fighting.

“Rumor is that Delta(CAG? Is that what they are actually called now?) was experimenting with RDS on their Glocks, but I have no idea how that went. You might be in a better position to know.”

As far as I know, its still in the testing stage, but, my info is about 4 months old. BTW, last I heard they are under “ACE”, “Army Compartmented Elements” Quite the PC approach.

great conversation…guys like you keep me sharp, make me think, and let me know that I need to always keep on training.

Man. I really need time to read all of these posts. Much great information out there. I would like to touch on the movement and shooting as well as the front sight topics. I was in the Marine Corps back in the 90’s desert storm Iraq era. I was not a Grunt, I wanted to be badly but I enlisted open contract and they sent me to electronics school. Anyway we were always taught to move in a zig zag fashion, im up, he sees me, im down fashion and fire from supported positions when possible. So to me a lot of this information is really not new, or did the ideas change in training and are now going back?

Also many guys painted their front sight tip with fluorescent paint at the range as well. Especially on the 500yd line. Never saw a need for it on a handgun personally but hey there could be a time where I might need it. Im getting older and my eyes are probably getting worse.

Good Lord…ACE?? Really?? Those poor bastards. To go through all that training to get called some PC nonsense like that…geez

RE: Lasers

Red is the easiest laser color to produce and still have good battery life, heat profile, etc. This is how red became the default standard for visible laser sights, cheap laser pointers, etc. This is why CrimsonTrace and not TealTrace.

Green is far, far more visible to the human eye. This translates as usuable in daylight and/or at longer ranges. These lasers tend to be considered more “powerful”, like they can actually damage your eyes. There were several companies marketing green visible lasers in the past, but battery life, method of activation(where the on switch/button was) and unit ruggedness were issues. CrimsonTrace recently started selling viridian green versions of some of their products as well.

Pretty much all of the laser grips for autos are non-starters for me because as a lefty my support hand blocks the laser, on revolvers my support hand is lower. If you can tolerate the size a green laser grip and a fiber optic front sight would be an amazing combo. Add a WML and you will have hung just about as much Go Fast Tactisexual Buck Rogers Shit as is possible off your gun without crossing into “bad idea” territory. A point could be made that the odds of losing both the laser and the front sight tubing are small.

RE: XS sights

I don’t want to speak for others, but I think he was using “difficult” in the context of any shot where you feel a good sight picture, including the rear sight, would be appropriate. Shots where you wouldn’t need a rear sight, either a “soft” sight picture, or just a “front sight” focus could be termed “easy”/high probability.

That could be a longer range shot, or a smaller target. I’m sure your abilities far exceed mine, but for example I want a real sight picture for both a 3X5" index card at 7 yards AND an 8 inch plate at 20 yards. If you can do either of those with no rear increase the distance or shrink the target until you get to “difficult”.

The express/XS sight picture excels at giving you a “just front sight” picture at speed because there is very little clutter other than the front sight. Just put the golf ball over the target and work the trigger, maybe try to sort of center the golf ball over the slide/shallow V rear. The issue is most good/skilled shooters can pull this off with regular sights by just ignoring the rear for quick/high probability shots.

On smaller targets or longer shots the XS takes longer because there is less “visual indication” of misalignments for you to pick up on. You can’t make sure there is an equal amount of “light” on both sides of the front sight, because there are no “light bars”. You aren’t centering a post in a notch, you are trying to put a golf ball in the exact center of a shallow, shallow V (there is a little stripe to help). You can’t quickly line up the sharp, upper edges of the rear and front sights, because there are no edges. Elevation is “Can I see all of the golf ball above the rear, but not any slide?”.

With practice and a bit more time per shot all of this can be overcome. There are videos of folks making long, long shots with XS sights. My friend’s contention is that very quickly times/scores with XS sights and regular sights on larger/closer targets get roughly equal, but that the conventional sights are always better for precision/distance. He then pointed out that precision is when you need the sight the most. The high visibility conventional sights do not share these issues.

I haven’t spent enough time with XS sights to personally say the above is true in my experience, but it makes sense and my friend is not the only one saying it. It also makes lines up with my experience with shotguns, and might for yours as well. Inside of 15 yards, do you need anything but a bead sight to make hits with slugs? I don’t. A pie plate at 25 is easy as well. However the ghost ring on my 590A1 is a huge help past 50 yards and I wouldn’t want to try a shot at 75 without a ghost ring or rifle sight on my shotgun. Shrink the targets and I want a rear sooner.

A lot of this hinges on what levels of accuracy we are going to approve of as “combat accurate” and what is unacceptable. I am comfortable going through the anatomy and physiology of that problem, but I don’t pretend to have a good reference point for what equates to “real world” use. I do know several very dialed in folks push the “on demand” headshot/failure drill/standard response out to 15 yards as doctrine.

Regards,

Robert A

[quote]Ranzo wrote:
Also many guys painted their front sight tip with fluorescent paint at the range as well. Especially on the 500yd line. Never saw a need for it on a handgun personally but hey there could be a time where I might need it. Im getting older and my eyes are probably getting worse.[/quote]

I think the better question is “Would this be an advantage or hinderance?”, not so much “need”. While the plural of anecdote is not data, there are a hell of a lot of anecdotes about people who saw/used their front sights absolutely crushing in gun fights, even at close range. Personally I want a front sight that begs for my attention like a labrador puppy. I want it to pull my eyes to it. That is why the sights on my carry pistols are painted up like naked Oompa Loompas and my shotgun has a road cone orange front blade.

I am not telling you to paint yours. Many competitors prefer plain black sights, that is why sight black is a product. Kyle Defoor likes plain black front sights (not even tritium) and he is not interested in games.

What are you using for sights? How visible are they in low light, dark, and with different color targets? I don’t have an agenda, I’m just curious.

Regards,

Robert A

[quote]idaho wrote:

“Inside of 3 yards I think of it as a fighting problem, not a gunfighting problem.”

  • I really like this Robert…I am probably going to write that down and use that when I teach."

X2 on stealing this quote for myself.

[/quote]

Feel free.

Something that I have been focussing much more on these last several years have been trying to make standard/default responses non “weapon specific”. A shit ton of knife attacks involve only one party knowing it was a knifing until deep into the fight, or afterwords, and a hell of a lot of folks don’t realize they are in a gunfight until big noise/muzzle flash confirms it.

I don’t want the “weapon defense” techniques I drill and teach to come with completely different tactical goals than the pure empty hand material. Not that things aren’t different, just that I want to avoid the “If he punches I do this, but if he has a knife in that hand I will do something completely different for an initial move and I will always know if he is using a fist vs a blade.” style of practice.

Regards,

Robert A

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]idaho wrote:

“Inside of 3 yards I think of it as a fighting problem, not a gunfighting problem.”

  • I really like this Robert…I am probably going to write that down and use that when I teach."

X2 on stealing this quote for myself.

[/quote]

Feel free.

Something that I have been focussing much more on these last several years have been trying to make standard/default responses non “weapon specific”. A shit ton of knife attacks involve only one party knowing it was a knifing until deep into the fight, or afterwords, and a hell of a lot of folks don’t realize they are in a gunfight until big noise/muzzle flash confirms it.

I don’t want the “weapon defense” techniques I drill and teach to come with completely different tactical goals than the pure empty hand material. Not that things aren’t different, just that I want to avoid the “If he punches I do this, but if he has a knife in that hand I will do something completely different for an initial move and I will always know if he is using a fist vs a blade.” style of practice.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

Thanks again for the information on the sighting systems.

I agree with you (if I am tracking) on the mindset of training for a specific response to a specific attack is good for base level learning, but, is damaging to your response in a real situation. Not to sound like some mystic loon, but, your reaction to whatever threat there is, is totally dependent on the threat presented.We are talking reactions here, not a planned assault on some badguy stronghold.

I have always been a big believer in mental scenarios for reaction response training. EX: walking down a street, asking myself where the best ambush point is, what if they/it attack, what’s my response? Suddenly faced with a car jacking or home invasion or walking through an international terminal, where you have no weapons, but your physical skills, a BIC pen, and your belt buckle? How would I react? I have done this so long its like breathing and is constantly engaged in my subconscious.

What are my options? Just some thoughts, but, the main point is to always have some type of reference so you dont DO NOTHING and just stand there and die.

My basic instinct is always, no matter if it is going to the grocery store, entering an office room, handling a domestic, or hitting a safe house, is to have the advantage in distance. I am always looking for that, because hands kill. Damn, this is as clear as mud. You expressed it better than me.

[quote]idaho wrote:

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]idaho wrote:

“Inside of 3 yards I think of it as a fighting problem, not a gunfighting problem.”

  • I really like this Robert…I am probably going to write that down and use that when I teach."

X2 on stealing this quote for myself.

[/quote]

Feel free.

Something that I have been focussing much more on these last several years have been trying to make standard/default responses non “weapon specific”. A shit ton of knife attacks involve only one party knowing it was a knifing until deep into the fight, or afterwords, and a hell of a lot of folks don’t realize they are in a gunfight until big noise/muzzle flash confirms it.

I don’t want the “weapon defense” techniques I drill and teach to come with completely different tactical goals than the pure empty hand material. Not that things aren’t different, just that I want to avoid the “If he punches I do this, but if he has a knife in that hand I will do something completely different for an initial move and I will always know if he is using a fist vs a blade.” style of practice.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

Thanks again for the information on the sighting systems.

I agree with you (if I am tracking) on the mindset of training for a specific response to a specific attack is good for base level learning, but, is damaging to your response in a real situation. Not to sound like some mystic loon, but, your reaction to whatever threat there is, is totally dependent on the threat presented.We are talking reactions here, not a planned assault on some badguy stronghold.

I have always been a big believer in mental scenarios for reaction response training. EX: walking down a street, asking myself where the best ambush point is, what if they/it attack, what’s my response? Suddenly faced with a car jacking or home invasion or walking through an international terminal, where you have no weapons, but your physical skills, a BIC pen, and your belt buckle? How would I react? I have done this so long its like breathing and is constantly engaged in my subconscious.

What are my options? Just some thoughts, but, the main point is to always have some type of reference so you dont DO NOTHING and just stand there and die.

My basic instinct is always, no matter if it is going to the grocery store, entering an office room, handling a domestic, or hitting a safe house, is to have the advantage in distance. I am always looking for that, because hands kill. Damn, this is as clear as mud. You expressed it better than me.

[/quote]
I think we are on the same, or similar pages here.

Of course I formalize the differences between Strategic, Tactical, and Technical and I was speaking to technique/technical profficiencies. I think those are the least “fuzzy”. Strategy should always be unique/evolving. Tactics are half and half.

I like to have a few options that work with less “assessment” than most of what I was taught in the past and use two specific mental cues/categories to try to trigger “tactics”. I think those might be my version of “hands kill”(if that is sort of a buzz word you are saying to yourself).

I could sort of just lay out what I am talking about, but not tonight. I am tired.

Regards,

Robert A

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]Ranzo wrote:
Also many guys painted their front sight tip with fluorescent paint at the range as well. Especially on the 500yd line. Never saw a need for it on a handgun personally but hey there could be a time where I might need it. Im getting older and my eyes are probably getting worse.[/quote]

I think the better question is “Would this be an advantage or hinderance?”, not so much “need”. While the plural of anecdote is not data, there are a hell of a lot of anecdotes about people who saw/used their front sights absolutely crushing in gun fights, even at close range. Personally I want a front sight that begs for my attention like a labrador puppy. I want it to pull my eyes to it. That is why the sights on my carry pistols are painted up like naked Oompa Loompas and my shotgun has a road cone orange front blade.

I am not telling you to paint yours. Many competitors prefer plain black sights, that is why sight black is a product. Kyle Defoor likes plain black front sights (not even tritium) and he is not interested in games.

What are you using for sights? How visible are they in low light, dark, and with different color targets? I don’t have an agenda, I’m just curious.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

My sights are black. Im not saying that I don’t aim but for how I am using my pistol I really don’t need sights. (here comes the shitstorm) point and shoot in an emergency situation. They suck in low light because you cant see the front sight post and if shooting at distance on a target it does tend to blend in. On the Range in the Corps using paint on your tip was frowned upon like you were the wounded weakling in the pack. Plenty of guys used it. I didn’t because I am a badass like they wanted me to do and I shot 2 points from Range high the last time I qualled.

However I am tempted to put some damn orange paint on my pistol and try it. When shooting my m16 at 500yds the sight tip takes up the whole target for the most part and I got the head of the target to bubble just over the front sight tip and I called that center mass. 8 of 10 rounds in the body. Now I am wondering if I had painted that thing if I would have shot better…

[quote]Ranzo wrote:

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]Ranzo wrote:
Also many guys painted their front sight tip with fluorescent paint at the range as well. Especially on the 500yd line. Never saw a need for it on a handgun personally but hey there could be a time where I might need it. Im getting older and my eyes are probably getting worse.[/quote]

I think the better question is “Would this be an advantage or hinderance?”, not so much “need”. While the plural of anecdote is not data, there are a hell of a lot of anecdotes about people who saw/used their front sights absolutely crushing in gun fights, even at close range. Personally I want a front sight that begs for my attention like a labrador puppy. I want it to pull my eyes to it. That is why the sights on my carry pistols are painted up like naked Oompa Loompas and my shotgun has a road cone orange front blade.

I am not telling you to paint yours. Many competitors prefer plain black sights, that is why sight black is a product. Kyle Defoor likes plain black front sights (not even tritium) and he is not interested in games.

What are you using for sights? How visible are they in low light, dark, and with different color targets? I don’t have an agenda, I’m just curious.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

My sights are black. Im not saying that I don’t aim but for how I am using my pistol I really don’t need sights. (here comes the shitstorm) point and shoot in an emergency situation. They suck in low light because you cant see the front sight post and if shooting at distance on a target it does tend to blend in.[/quote]

A lot of folks accomplish the “point and shoot” thing. Not all of them accomplish the “point, shoot, and hit” thing, fewer still get to add “make decisive hits”. I am not saying you won’t be one of the ones who does, just that I think the number of qualified people stressing sighted fire is a clue. If someone with Idaho’s resume is continually looking for advantages for shots inside of 15 yards, I figure I really need any help I can get.

Video of someone not getting it done:

Precision rifle or small bore is way out of my comfort zone. That being said the shooters I have met who compete use “target” front posts. Think of a thinner front so less of the target is occluded. Doing it for real and I would suggest gear whoring with an ACOG, variable optic, or magnifier plus electronic sight.

As for the pistol, I would try it. White paint base, then color. I really would want at least a tritium front sight though. Actually, it occurs to me now to ask what type of gun are we talking about?

Regards,

Robert A

Robert,

I carry a 9mm Taurus PT24/7 G2 daily.

[quote]Ranzo wrote:
Robert,

I carry a 9mm Taurus PT24/7 G2 daily.
[/quote]

Well, if you carry it daily I will assume that your example is reliable. Taurus in general has sort of a “hit or miss” rep with QC and customer service. They are off my list of “recommend”/buy because of a combo of both, mostly the latter. Still, if your gun is put together right I like a bunch of their models/features.

It doesn’t look like Ameriglo or Trijicon make any sights for the G2 series. There is something going on with the G2 vs regular 24/7 model (different dovetail cuts?) because Dawson Precision offers Tritium sights for the regular 24/7 but states they will not fit a G2. They only offer a fiber optic front for your gun at this time.

http://www.dawsonprecision.com/CategoryProductList.jsp?cat=SIGHTS+FRONT:Taurus+Front+Sights

Size wise it seems like you are well into “real gun” territory more than say “slip it in a pocket”. This would have me wanting the capability that comes with good sights and night sights. If this is also the gun you use for most of your training/range time I will suggest that picking sights that give you a good amount of feedback/info about alignment make improvement easier. At least this has always been the case for me.

Regards,

Robert A

That looks like a really nice piece. I might just invest in one of those for my gun. I have a tendancy to shoot low and to the left and I have adjusted my sights to my “zero” and normally hold pretty tight groups. I am working early in the morning and evenings when it is dark and I think this front sight might help out if something ever does happen.

As far as the quality of my weapon, I am pretty pleased with it. The only 2 things I could bitch about would be that the magazine moves around and makes noise when the thing is holstered and you are walking. Not very tactical. I really don’t know why Taurus doesn’t fix it. I fixed my with damn rubber band double looping it around the magazine. Sounds Cheap and stupid im sure but I did it out of curiosity and it worked great. I have searched for an O ring or something that is not too thick that would allow the magazine to still function properly but stop the rattle. Seems like something a factory could come up with easy enough.

the other complaint is the little thing…I don’t know the real name…that tells you there is a round in the chamber. Mine really don’t cup up high enough to be a tell tale. Once you get used to looking at it you can tell but It really needs to come up higher. I always have a round in the chamber and treat it as such so not a big deal really.

[quote]Ranzo wrote:
That looks like a really nice piece. I might just invest in one of those for my gun. I have a tendancy to shoot low and to the left and I have adjusted my sights to my “zero” and normally hold pretty tight groups.
[/quote]

Assuming you are right handed “low and left” is real common. Often it is because you are gettting some degree of lateral/towards the support side pressure on the trigger when you work it.

Try using “more” and “less” trigger finger when you fire. My guess is if you can get a bit more finger over the trigger, you will like the results.

Dry Fire/Demo:

Confirm empty, like a bunch of times. Remove all live ammo from room/immediate area.

Take a sight picture on a target where you can clearly see your sights, because you are going to be “reading them”.

Pay attention as you pull the trigger with your normal grip/method. Can you track any “down and left” movement of the front sight as or immediately after you break the shot? Try pulling with different speeds. One handed is worth trying as well.(for me a down and off side push can be mitigated by grip, but shows up with a vengeance support side only).

See if putting a bit “more” finger on the trigger helps. IF you were using just the pad of your finger, you may end up closer to the first joint.

Actually, fiber optics work better the brighter it is. Tritium/night sights are the ticket in “intermediate” lighting (dawn, dusk, or semi lit indoors). The fiber optic rod focuses ambient light into a really bright, colored spot. It needes overhead light to do this. Tritium is self lighting. Unfortunately, I cannot find any tritium for your specific model of Taurus.

If you want to experiment with paint, I am currently in love with a fluorescent green center dot/ring (I painted the white ring around the green tritium vile) surrounded by an orange post.

[quote]

As far as the quality of my weapon, I am pretty pleased with it. The only 2 things I could bitch about would be that the magazine moves around and makes noise when the thing is holstered and you are walking. Not very tactical. I really don’t know why Taurus doesn’t fix it. I fixed my with damn rubber band double looping it around the magazine. Sounds Cheap and stupid im sure but I did it out of curiosity and it worked great. I have searched for an O ring or something that is not too thick that would allow the magazine to still function properly but stop the rattle. Seems like something a factory could come up with easy enough.

the other complaint is the little thing…I don’t know the real name…that tells you there is a round in the chamber. Mine really don’t cup up high enough to be a tell tale. Once you get used to looking at it you can tell but It really needs to come up higher. I always have a round in the chamber and treat it as such so not a big deal really.[/quote]

That is Taurus being Taurus. They used to sell rougher finished copies of proven designs( Smith and Wesson wheelguns and Berreta autos) and offer great customer service if something went wrong. They now offer a ton of really cool designs, that may or not be given the QC needed.

They also have so many models, and without the market penetration of say SIG, that aftermarket support can be a problem. I have no idea why they wouldn’t standardize the dove tail cuts on their slides, or even mimic Glock or Sig and piggy back of that after market support, but they don’t. Your best lowlight option may be a flashlight and a WML if available.

Ability to source holsters, sights, magazines, and replacement parts keeps me using/recommending boring Volkspistols over “cool” most of the time. I feel all hipsterish with my Kahr, but I made sure I had an aftermarket front sight, spare mags, and a holster in hand when I picked it up. Even then I had to do some whining to get some custom kydex made for it.

Regards,

Robert A

Thanks for the advice on shooting. I have worked on several of those issue. Early on I did squeeze a little hard with the trigger hand and it moves my shot low and left but this weapon tends to do it more than others. I made some sight adjustments and I seem to be good.

Once I shot my gun and my friends Kimber back to back and I was right on center with the Kimber first time. Also as a note on holsters I am using a Blackhawk retention holster made for a Springfield, works like a charm.