Class One Pistol: barrel length between 3.75" and 4.25"; with a minimum magazine capacity of 13 rounds.
Class Two Pistol: barrel length between 4.5" and 5.5"; with a minimum magazine capacity of 15 rounds.
Class One Training Pistol (Red Handle): deactivated with full articulation, red receiver and slide, night sights.
Class One “Man Marking” (a.k.a., “Simunitions”) pistol: blue slide or slide with blue inserts.
[/quote]
Off the top of my head this reads like a description of the Glock product line. With the G19 for Class 1, and with Red and Sims Glock 19’s available, and either the G17, rounding barrel length up, or a G34 for class 2.
Mapwhap are you doing FBI procurement now? Because the “happy with my Glock 34 and focusing on training” seems to permeate this doc.
I don’t know if there are Simunition versions of the Sig legacy P2XX series, the SP2022, or the 320 availible or if HK or S&W have the product line either.
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]
I checked around with the FBI agents I work with and 3 carry issued Glocks and one carries an issued SIG. Rumor is the bureau wants to go to standard issue pistol and eliminate the choice of either. I am only familiar with the Glock Simunition conversion kits. We use them extensively in training foreign police/troops.
[quote]Robert A wrote:
OK, I guess I am reaching out for either confirmation or someone to explain to me how I got so wrong.
Several friends and few more casual friends have told me about the NYPD choking a man (Eric Garner) to death over cigarettes and that there is video of the brutality/perhaps out and out murder. In fairness I don’t think all of them watched the video.
I did, I am missing the excessive force.
The video actually looked like about as easy of a takedown as you can expect. I am sure it could have been done better if all the cops could have synced up and hit their marks, but hell that is true of everything always.
I notice there is an edit before the cops go “hands on” and I am assuming that is when all the under arrest commands/lawful orders happened.
It is my understanding that NYPD policy calls a bunch of things chokeholds and “officially” restricts officers from doing anything that could impact breathing. So, I guess there might be a lot of “not policy” in the video, but I really am not seeing anything “excessive” to an outsider. Hell, in the extended footage it looks like the officers rolled him into a recovery position and were doing there damdest to get him medical attention as soon as it became obvious to them he wasn’t just winded. If they tried to delay care I would see the uproar. They didn’t.
So, do I need reconstructive surgery on my empathy? Or am I seeing this the right way because I don’t see excessive force, much less murder here. I see someone whose physical presentation made exertion risky and whose obesity and pathologies make many positions additionally stressful. This was a man who would not be cleared for many activites, fighting anyone being one of those. I am guessing that he was pre-disposed to positional asphyxia and the exertion way, way exceeded his ability to ventilate.
Thank you in advance for any and all consideration.
Regards,
Robert A
[/quote]
I think you hit the nail on the head. He was obese and couldn’t catch his breath after his airway was briefly restricted before physical exertion.
[/quote]
I have been in the hinterlands for the past few weeks and I am not totally up to speed on this. I have no empathy scale any more, so, surgery would not do me any good. Was it rumor or fact that the NYC Medical Examiners office ruled it a homicide?
Class One Pistol: barrel length between 3.75" and 4.25"; with a minimum magazine capacity of 13 rounds.
Class Two Pistol: barrel length between 4.5" and 5.5"; with a minimum magazine capacity of 15 rounds.
Class One Training Pistol (Red Handle): deactivated with full articulation, red receiver and slide, night sights.
Class One “Man Marking” (a.k.a., “Simunitions”) pistol: blue slide or slide with blue inserts.
[/quote]
Off the top of my head this reads like a description of the Glock product line. With the G19 for Class 1, and with Red and Sims Glock 19’s available, and either the G17, rounding barrel length up, or a G34 for class 2.
Mapwhap are you doing FBI procurement now? Because the “happy with my Glock 34 and focusing on training” seems to permeate this doc.
I don’t know if there are Simunition versions of the Sig legacy P2XX series, the SP2022, or the 320 availible or if HK or S&W have the product line either.
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]
I forgot to reply to this post. I’ve used the Simunition kit for the Sig P series pistol.
[quote]idaho wrote:
I checked around with the FBI agents I work with and 3 carry issued Glocks and one carries an issued SIG. Rumor is the bureau wants to go to standard issue pistol and eliminate the choice of either. I am only familiar with the Glock Simunition conversion kits. We use them extensively in training foreign police/troops.
[/quote]
I am usually against limiting choices, since I do believe people practice more with things they like. On the other hand I am sure the logistics associated when talking FBI scale are huge. I know 9mm makes sense from a cost, reduced wear on firearms, less recoil for lesser prepared and/or small framed officers stand point. It also dawns on me that considering how much OCONUS work Fed LE does that switching to a NATO standard 9mm round makes a lot of sense. In fact, I think I would look real hard at the 124 +P rounds as opposed to 147 grain just to make point of aim/point of impact between duty ammo and ball.
[quote]idaho wrote:
I have been in the hinterlands for the past few weeks and I am not totally up to speed on this. I have no empathy scale any more, so, surgery would not do me any good.[/quote]
I am going to look into getting donor empathy, like they do with ACL repairs. I think if we find me the right dead hippy I can become really, REALLY sensitive.
Appears to be fact, and that makes sense. It was a violent encounter with homo sapiens sapiens that was the failed “proof test” of his cardio pulmonary system. On the other hand being homicide shouldn’t be read as “murder”/“manslaughter”. So, the lab coat/Dr. should write homicide and the investigators/DA need to have the integrity to say “no crime” (on the officer’s parts).
Found this article from the NY Times.
[quote]NY Times: An autopsy found that the manner of death for Eric Garner, 43, was homicide, the medical examiner said in a statement. While the report found that Mr. Garnerâ??s poor health was a contributing factor, it was not the primary cause of his death…
Mr. Garner was a large man, weighing over 300 pounds, and had other health issues, including diabetes, sleep apnea and asthma. Some of those ailments were cited in the autopsy as contributing conditions to his death.
the medical examiner’s office was clear in the cause of his death, finding he died from “compression of neck (choke hold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police.”
[/quote]
This does make things bad for the one officer who had his arm around Garner’s neck. The article also states that Daniel Pantaleo, the officer, “has been stripped of his badge and gun.” so I am assuming suspended. The article says NYPD policy is no choke holds and that a choke is “any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air.” So,like I wroter earlier, I see a “not policy” issue, for the officer but nothing criminal.
I am not assured by the following from the article
[quote]The encounter on Staten Island prompted Police Commissioner William J. Bratton to call for a complete review of the department’s training and tactics regarding use of force. It has also presented Mayor Bill de Blasio with a difficult challenge as he tries to balance his support of the police with his campaign promises to reform what he had characterized as over-aggressive tactics.
“We all have a responsibility to work together to heal the wounds from decades of mistrust and create a culture where the Police Department and the communities they protect respect each other,” Mr. de Blasio said in a statement after the autopsy results were revealed.
[/quote]
Granted that may be my own bias about not listening to anyone who gave aid to the Sandanista Government and who chose to honeymoon in Cuba because he supports and respects the way Castro administered his government when they talk about law, civil rights, and the proper role of government force. I admit, I am flawed.
Sorry, Robert…I had an opportunity to get away on a brief, 6 day vacation, so I jumped at the chance. I have been off the net for a while.
In any case…regarding FBI procurement: I can neither confirm nor deny my status as an official or non-official procurement specialist or non-specialist. The fact that I am responding to this thread could threaten my security clearance…or not…if I had one…or didn’t…
In all fairness, I have been arguing with them to adopt the Tactical Crossbow as their primary weapon, but I am meeting with considerable resistance. Apparently Simunitions DOES NOT, in fact, make a paint round for the modern day crossbow. Fools. The market is wide open for this sort of thing, if anyone is interested, by the way.
As for the excessive force / NYPD thing…unfortunately, I honestly believe that officer is going to get hung out to dry. The department is absolutely not going to help him, because their SOP’s are very clear on the use of chokes or neck restraints of any kind. They are strictly forbidden. So, from a LEGAL standpoint, especially with the coroner’s ruling, he’s going to get hammered. The likelihood is he will go to Federal prison, with the charge being some variation of Violation of Civil Rights of a Person.
Was it excessive from any “normal” person’s point of view? No…probably not. The most difficult part, though, is finding 12 “normal” people to view it. I’d be fighting for a change of venue, cos he sure isn’t going to get a fair trial in NYC.
I haven’t watched any videos yet, and I’m not sure if I will. They tend to be very one sided, taken out of context, and if they run true to form, it will be a bunch of people screaming at the officers for arresting the guy. It’s very frustrating and annoying to have to go “hands on” with someone and then have everyone screaming at you that you are using “excessive force”. To many people, ANY force that the police use is “excessive”. And it’s all subjective anyway, because each department has different standards.
For example, my department still authorizes closed fist strikes to the face and head, if they are necessary. If a suspect is actively fighting me, then I can deliver the knuckles as needed. However, as you have probably seen elsewhere, even though the suspect may be actively swinging at me, people are going to scream “EXCESSIVE FORCE”!!! if I swing back.
It’s a societal issue. Part of it we brought upon ourselves, part has been media induced, and part is the level of societal permissiveness that has been reached in the last 20 years.
Getting back to my point, though…I doubt it was excessive from any clear-minded perspective. I’ve seen street fights that were FAR worse. But, at the end of the day, as police officers we know what our department policies are. And if you violate one, and somebody dies because of it, it’s kind of hard to help you out.
Just my opinion. Other officers may feel otherwise.
Great thread! I’ve only just begun sifting through all the useful stuff in here. Well done Combat Forum.
Regarding the NYPD “choke hold” video, very unfortunate outcome (obviously). I have to agree with mapwhap, the officer is in a very bad spot legally. If that tactic is expressly prohibited by his Dept, it seems he is pretty much on the hook for the consequences.
That being said, in my opinion a properly applied “lateral neck restraint” is one of the lowest risk force options for both officers and subjects (no use of force can rightly be described as “safe” for anyone involved). I think the problem arises with the “proper application” in dynamic situations. Incorrect alignment of the elbow relative to the neck causes pressure to be brought to bear on the airway in the front of the neck rather than upon the vascular structures in the sides.
My understanding (in gross over-simplification) is that the trachea is like a pop can that, once compressed,
is potentially unable to regain its shape while the vascular structures are more like flexible tubing that rebounds once the compression is released. Restriction of the supply of oxygenated blood to the brain will usually induce unconsciousness in a matter of seconds and in the overwhelming majority of cases has no lasting adverse effects. Restricting the airway can take minutes to produce unconsciousness and carries a much higher risk of medical complications.
If I were being restrained by police I would vastly prefer they did so via LNR as opposed to, say, repeated baton strikes. I think it’s a mistake to take it out of the tool box and both police and the public would be better served by investing in training officers to use it properly and effectively.
FTR, I’m not commenting on the application in the video either way. Like I said, very unfortunate outcome for all concerned.
There is a lot of win in mapwhap’s post. Just saying.
[quote]mapwhap wrote:
Hola, Robert and fellow Bad Idea threaders!
Sorry, Robert…I had an opportunity to get away on a brief, 6 day vacation, so I jumped at the chance. I have been off the net for a while.
[/quote]
Glad you were able to take some time for yourself.
True Fact: If I had a chance to paste someone with a fucking Sims crossbow I would completely derail any force on force training until I got it done. I mean I would be weaponized “That Guy”. I would do the most B.S., kamikazi, gamer, unrealistic, not following scenario crap just to be able to get a “gotcha” kill with a bow. Just because. It would be totally worth getting torn up by every Sim round the opposition was carrying. Add a coil of rope I could wear and it would be over.
I hope you are wrong about the fed charges and prison time. I understand NYPD has more than one policy that I consider stupid from my spot on the side lines. I will completely concede that violating policy AND making your employer look bad in the process is the most time honored way to get your walking papers but criminal is just a bridge too fucking far.
I hope that any powers that be looking for a scape goat would consider the implication that Civil Rights “exist” universally. That means if the technique/tactics in the vid are a violation than ANY agent/entity of the US Government that uses them, even if they are within policy, is also committing the violation. Alternatly they could argue that a bad outcome makes things criminal, essentially eroding Q.I. or that the reason for the initial arrest was not valid, so no arrests for tax violations.
I am hoping for the officer that the witch hunt ends up doing the right thing, even if I suspect they will be doing it for the wrong reasons.
Having any kind of post graduate education seems to make me toxic during jury selection, so I can’t comment.
Well, I think that is kind of a good thing. It means that most peoples default is to not be ok with violence and to want to side with/protect the underdog. What a lot of people fail to realize is that in a good many cases, the real underdogs were the victims of the person being arrested and the “defenseless” arrestee would gladly beat someone to death with a fucking shovel if it suited his purpose. Also, most folks don’t get that trying to be as “soft” as possible often looks worse, and results in more injuries, than being decisive.
Well, by definition half of “The Public” are of below average intelligence. I like that your policy allows you to use tools “if necessary”. I think use of force policy should always word restrictions in a way so they scale with need. Hitting someone who is merely “non compliant” in the head with a baton should be banned. On the other hand if they are a lethal threat (say they run onto the scene with a lethal weapon or pull a knife in the midle of a situation and the baton is already in hand than game on) and the tool is at hand than do so until the threat stops or a better potentially lethal tool can be had.
I don’t get to write policy.
Actually, with your background this is pretty much your fault. The public can be ignorant of violence specifically because of the professional military (of which you were a part) and the police, who by virtue of answering calls from and investigating crimes committed against all citizens instead of simply being a tool to segregate social classes and protect aristocratic interests, function at the absolute pinnacle of what law enforcement has been through history.
[quote]
Getting back to my point, though…I doubt it was excessive from any clear-minded perspective. I’ve seen street fights that were FAR worse. But, at the end of the day, as police officers we know what our department policies are. And if you violate one, and somebody dies because of it, it’s kind of hard to help you out.
Just my opinion. Other officers may feel otherwise. [/quote]
I agree. If he gets fired I will understand. I have neither seen nor read anything that makes me feel criminal charges are justified. Something I really don’t get is that the NYPD is huge. There have to be incidents that ARE worth people getting spun up about. It is damn near a statistical certainty. Instead this gets a bunch of play.
The administrations response has me wondering how the hell there are any good police left in NY.
[quote]batman730 wrote:
Great thread! I’ve only just begun sifting through all the useful stuff in here. Well done Combat Forum.
[/quote]
idaho, mapwhap, et all posted some very good material.
I posted about a woman being banged to death by a dog.
So it was pretty representative of the board as a whole I think.
I am not against carotid/blood chokes/strangles as a tool. I do think that using them has to be done in a very judicious manor. I am not, nor have I ever been, a sworn officer. I have witnessed security and bouncers who most definately were choke crazy and exhibited the “I have a really cool hammer so everything looks like a nail” problem. I think chokes should be available to officers, but I can understand how limitations in training and liability concerns force them to be banned. I would actually like to hear inputs from others on this.
My opinion is that a choke hold is pretty much a last ditch effort to not have to kill the person you are choking, not a “low level” of force. I say this partly because there is a real risk of doing it somewhat wrong and damaging the wind pipe, or holding the choke longer than intended, or getting complications from the chokee’s pre-existing conditions (I wouldn’t want to use one on an elderly person with a lot of carotid plaque for example. This isn’t much of an issue when we look at who we train with, but old man/woman w/ dementia and being violent at the store is prime time police) but mostly because it is only reasonable for the person being choked to act like they will not be allowed to wake up.
Most folks have a strong, visceral reaction to being strangled, and for good reason. It is right up there with drowning as a way to cause panic and violence. If you get the choke right than great. However, if you fuck up you have just issued an invitation to a murder fight. From that point things may be way, WAY more serious. Would you ever let someone who just tried to drown you put you in cuffs? Most people are going to feel the same way about a failed choke.
So, if it works great. In fact with someone who has gone full bath salts zombie it might well be the only way to save their life by getting them to stop fighting, into cuffs, and under medical care soon enough that they don’t basically run themselves to death or force the cops to shoot them.
I would view it as the “No Knock” Dynamic Entry of combatives. If done properly, the suspect is safe because they are rendered ineffective before they can mount/create a formidable enough defense to draw lethal force and the officers are safe for the same reason. However if shit goes side ways than no one is safe because the suspect is being given signals that he is fighting for his life, and that means the officer is as well.
“I would view it as the “No Knock” Dynamic Entry of combatives. If done properly, the suspect is safe because they are rendered ineffective before they can mount/create a formidable enough defense to draw lethal force and the officers are safe for the same reason. However if shit goes side ways than no one is safe because the suspect is being given signals that he is fighting for his life, and that means the officer is as well”
As someone has been on the receiving end of a civil lawsuit concerning excessive force, nothing good will come from the NYC incident. There will be perp’s death, ruined lives, ruined careers, tremendous psychological stress, and huge, often life crippling financial costs.
As far as I know, the “choke-hold”, has not been taught in any major academies in the last 30 years. You would think with the amount of lawsuits over the years and the way the Feds view any officer who causes a death using the technique, would send a clear message to street officers to avoid the technique at all costs.
I agree with your assessment that the technique should only be deployed in a lethal force situation, such as one -on -one, and the perp has taken your handgun and is trying to kill you. Any encounter that is going to end your life, then well and good, but, just like deploying smoke in a house during a SWAT raid, it is a technique used as a last resort., and, you have better be prepared to back up that decision in a violation of civil rights investigation.
“Actually, with your background this is pretty much your fault. The public can be ignorant of violence specifically because of the professional military (of which you were a part) and the police, who by virtue of answering calls from and investigating crimes committed against all citizens instead of simply being a tool to segregate social classes and protect aristocratic interests, function at the absolute pinnacle of what law enforcement has been through history”
Robert,
This is so true, especially in the States, never ceases to amaze me concerning the “public’s” ignorance on violence and what it takes to counter that violence.
As someone has been on the receiving end of a civil lawsuit concerning excessive force, nothing good will come from the NYC incident. There will be perp’s death, ruined lives, ruined careers, tremendous psychological stress, and huge, often life crippling financial costs.
[/quote]
I think you may be overly pessimistic. After all, the police are still going to be doing there jobs and it’s not like the mayor and chief of police are going to tell them to just drive around and run the sirens or put non-sworn officers in charge.
Oh.
Wait.
Damn It.
[b]Union Chief Tells Cops to Follow Rules amid Choke Hold Probe[/b]
[quote]From link:
“Going forward, for members of the NYPD, we want you to do your job and follow the rule book the way it’s written,” Sergeants Benevolent Association President Ed Mullins said during a news conference in Manhattan. “If there’s a delay getting to the next place, so be it.”…
“Let’s say he gets called to a burglary, then he should follow the job to its completion before responding to the second job. And if the second job is more serious, the officer might not respond there immediately, depending on what’s happening in the first job he responded to.”
[/quote]
I am not sure I can think of a worse indictment of a policy or the policy’s makers than the tacit admission/implication that simply following it amounts to a strike/slow down.
[i]NYPD ESU Ordered to Drive Around Running Lights to Deter Crime[/i]
[quote]From Link:
Members of the NYPD’s elite Emergency Services Unit have been ordered to drive around the city’s worst neighborhoods with their lights flashing to deter crime,…
The voluntary overtime shifts were ordered last month for the unit, as well as for cops in the department’s highway, patrol and warrants divisions, sources said…
“It’s really a joke,” a disgusted ESU source said. “We sit in our truck all night driving around, listening to music.”…
The number of people shot jumped about 25 percent between July 15 and Aug. 10 compared to last year â?? climbing from 103 to 129.
[/quote]
[i]De Blasio’s $12.7M gun-violence prevention program to put ‘interrupters’ in high-crime precincts[/i]
[quote]From Link:
It involves sending out the “interrupters” - mostly former gang members who intervene in street disputes before they escalate to shooting…
The plan is based on a theory that gun violence should be tackled as a public health epidemic, not just a law enforcement problem.
“This is a fundamental shift on how we’re dealing with gun violence,” said Councilman Jumaane Williams (D-Brooklyn)…
“When we think about a disease, we want to quarantine a particular area…and then saturate that area with some sort of antibodies to help eradicate the violence,” said Ife Charles of the Center for Court Innovation.[/quote]
Well, I believe I have considered every possibility and there is certainly no way the above events can go badly.
I think it is probably a testament to innate human goodness that any member of the NYPD actually does police work or takes any risks on behalf of public good.
It appears that the prilim autopsy reports from the Michael Brown(the 18 year old who was shot by a Fergusson, M.O. police officer) are consistent with the police narative and not any of the “shot in back”/“executed” narratives that have been used to justify RiotPallooza 2014. At least based on what I see/read.
This link is dealing with a private autopsy performed by Dr. Michael Baden who performed the procedure at the request of the Brown family. Supposedly the Justice Department is going to perform a third autopsy, City/ME and Baden’s being 1 and 2, as well.
There is a Dr. Baden’s sketch. He is the Doc from HBO’s Autopsy series. He states that Brown was shot at least 6 times, but that only three rounds were recovered from Brown’s body. The article states that he did not have access to post mortem x-rays, ect.
[quote]From link:
Dr. Baden provided a diagram of the entry wounds, and noted that the six shots produced numerous wounds. Some of the bullets entered and exited several times, including one that left at least five different wounds.
“This one here looks like his head was bent downward,” he said, indicating the wound at the very top of Mr. Brownâ??s head. “It can be because he’s giving up, or because heâ??s charging forward at the officer.”
He stressed that his information does not assign blame or justify the shooting.
[/quote]
The article gives a treatment of the various narratives of the shooting and also contains some great notable statements by Benjamin Crump, the Brown family’s attorney and Dr. Baden.
[quote]
“The sheer number of bullets and the way they were scattered all over his body showed this police officer had a brazen disregard for the very people he was supposed to protect in that community,” Mr. Crump said. “We want to make sure people understand what this case is about: This case is about a police officer executing a young unarmed man in broad daylight.”[/quote]
and
[quote]
"In my capacity as the forensic examiner for the New York State Police, I would say, ‘You’re not supposed to shoot so many times,’ " said Dr. Baden, who retired from the state police in 2011. “Right now there is too little information to forensically reconstruct the shooting.”[/quote]
I confess to being unaware of the NYSP OIS results but my suspicion is that the above statement is kind of out there. I am guessing we can find video of NYSP shootings with worse accuracy where the officers where justified and likely received commendations.
You know…I was going to write out an extended response to what RobertA wrote but then it occured to me…I’d be preaching to the choir in this thread. So, I’ll summarize:
I wasn’t in that officer’s position. Neither was anyone else. Let the FBI get the facts and make a decision. They usually do a pretty good job.
I don’t get rioting and looting. Demonstrations, yes. Breaking into and stealing from Wal-Mart does not prove any point that has to do with white / black relations. It only solidifies people’s opinions about black folks in large groups.
People who throw Molotov cocktails during riots should be selectively eliminated by sniper overwatch teams. As soon as a person is spotted with one, they should be given a case of terminal lead poisoning. If you shoot down every person holding one, pretty soon, nobody will be holding one. It’s not rocket surgery.
Anybody get to see Guardians of the Galaxy? Thoughts on it?
[quote]mapwhap wrote:
You know…I was going to write out an extended response to what RobertA wrote but then it occured to me…I’d be preaching to the choir in this thread. So, I’ll summarize:
[/quote]
That is a good way of saying it. Still, there are likely plenty here who enjoy “sermons” by yourself or idaho and I suspect there are a hell of a lot of lurkers who might benefit. There are a good number of views for some of these threads.
As more information comes to light I am starting to suspect the reason for pushing the Outrage Now!!! button is that the facts may not support outrage.
To be honest. I suspect that the day time protestors may not be the same as the night time looters. I think the protest/demonstration/public outcry is most likely misplaced, but that a lot of the day time folks are “only” guilty of jumping to conclusions useful to their narratives/world view. The night crew seems to be doing everything from shooting at officers to burning/looting.
It is pretty hard to argue firebombs aren’t a lethal threat. In addition a whole lot of insurance policies don’t cover damage from riot/civil unrest/war. So every Btu of those poorly made bombs could end up costing someone their livelyhood.
I remember Jeff Cooper writing about the virtues of using a .22 rifle to tone down the instigators of riots. Ideal being that even a lung shot tends to make them want to get to a hospital instead of smashing things. I have read rumors that the Israelis have tried this out. I am not in the least suggesting it, but your post brought it to mind.
I think the actual correct action is to go ahead and institute the “people throwing fire bombs” are a lethal threat policy and to engage them as such. No need to be cute about it.
Yes. I saw it opening weekend and I really enjoyed it. For a comic book/not serious/fantasy/sci-fi-light movie I thought they did an excellent job of making you care about the main characters. There was funny dialogue. There was action. And most important of all:
An anthropomorphic racoon shoots a machine gun while riding a house plant, played by Vin Diesel. If that isn’t worth the ticket price to you I have no idea how you make your decisions.
Hey, Idaho…glad to see you are still with us. Usually when I don’t see anything from you for a week or so, I assume you are out on a mission. The exciting life of a contractor, eh? (Assuming that is what you would be titled, of course…)
And Robert…I did get to see Guardians of the Galaxy. I was not familiar with those particular Marvel characters at all, but I was very pleased with the movie. Great action and special effects as always, but in particular, the humor in the writing was really well done. Lots of good lines in this one, and that’s why I tend to prefer the Marvel movies to the DC movies. Everyone takes the DC ones SOOOOO seriouslly. They are just comic book movies…we aren’t talking Shakespeare, here. Have a sense of humor, for God’s sake!
[quote]mapwhap wrote:
Hey, Idaho…glad to see you are still with us.
[/quote]
Seconded.
[quote]
And Robert…I did get to see Guardians of the Galaxy. I was not familiar with those particular Marvel characters at all, but I was very pleased with the movie. Great action and special effects as always, but in particular, the humor in the writing was really well done. Lots of good lines in this one, and that’s why I tend to prefer the Marvel movies to the DC movies. Everyone takes the DC ones SOOOOO seriouslly. They are just comic book movies…we aren’t talking Shakespeare, here. Have a sense of humor, for God’s sake![/quote]
I just knew I was going to get to see a racoon with guns. That is all it took.
I agree. Parts of the banter reminded me of Firefly and that is a good thing. There are a bunch of Rocket Racoon memes now with the
DC Comics: A film about a hero haunted by his past, and the gravity of his responsibilities. Forever apart from…
Marvel: Here is a Racoon with a machine gun.
Funny thing though, the opening for Guardians had me feeling more than any part of the Dark Night series or new Superman films. I also cared about the characters. Odd how that can work. It makes it more fun when the heros win. Take fucking notes Hollywood. We like it when people we like win.
Actually, Guardians is pretty close to Shakespeare. Shakespeare had success in his day in large part to bawdy and irreverent humor, topical references, and killer special effects. His works became classics because they became part of culture. So we actually enjoyed something way closer to modern Shakespeare than some art house film. Also, “I am Groot.”
Final note, if you manage to turn to a co-worker and say “We are just like Kevin Bacon.” when rolling out you will have won Awesome for the year.
[quote]mapwhap wrote:
Hey, Idaho…glad to see you are still with us. Usually when I don’t see anything from you for a week or so, I assume you are out on a mission. The exciting life of a contractor, eh? (Assuming that is what you would be titled, of course…)
Thank you for the kind words. Just watch your 6. For the offical record, I am a 1811:))
