Babies are for Idiots?

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
Interesting thread here. I wonder how step children fit into this model. I will never have my own biological children but do have a step daughter. I’m hoping I won’t have regret later in life about not spreading my seed.[/quote]

You want the Darwinian answer or the theological?[/quote]

He wants both…

Mebbe?[/quote]

Thanks, but I should probably do without an answer. This debate about child vs child free couples is interesting, but the issue of step children seems to be a third scenario. I figured I would have something to contribute by just bringing it up.[/quote]

Okay, I want both.

Definitely.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]2busy wrote:

Hey don’t forget the Lutherans. I have 9.[/quote]

You’re just Catholics, but with grace.[/quote]

LOL!

I think this pertains more to younger people. In my experiences it’s been the people who didn’t go to college, or really have any big desires out of high school that ended up having kids at an early age. IMO there are more less intelligent people having kids at a younger age, where more intelligent people tend to wait.

on its own standing, it is smart to wait to have children.

Also now that I’m 28 I’ve noticed this attitude that people my age have. It’s really this like “what else is there to do” perspective. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve entered into conversations…actually mostly with women, about how you have the rest of you life to be married and have children. NOW is the time to not be married or have children so you can focus on you.
Because of my stance I’ve been called anything from a baby hater, to immature, to a selfish prick. (still can’t believe how upset some women get about this) But in my opinion I think it’s more selfish to have children when you’re personal development is not at a point where it can benefit your offspring the most.

idiotic page fillers like this contribute to societies downfall

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
Seems to me that the most intelligent people in the world, of which many are women, derive their “meaning of life” in the form of their work. [/quote]

…haha…hahaha…heh…HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
I think this pertains more to younger people. In my experiences it’s been the people who didn’t go to college, or really have any big desires out of high school that ended up having kids at an early age. IMO there are more less intelligent people having kids at a younger age, where more intelligent people tend to wait.

on its own standing, it is smart to wait to have children.

Also now that I’m 28 I’ve noticed this attitude that people my age have. It’s really this like “what else is there to do” perspective. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve entered into conversations…actually mostly with women, about how you have the rest of you life to be married and have children. NOW is the time to not be married or have children so you can focus on you.
Because of my stance I’ve been called anything from a baby hater, to immature, to a selfish prick. (still can’t believe how upset some women get about this) But in my opinion I think it’s more selfish to have children when you’re personal development is not at a point where it can benefit your offspring the most.

[/quote]

I’ve pondered this quite a bit. I decided long ago (about your age) to wait a while. My wife and I had or son 10 mos. ago, me at 40, her at 36, both of us pretty well established in our careers and having a stable household.

It is still one hell of a challenge. Late night crying while teething, and myriad other things that come up make balancing work/home/each other/life in general very complicated. Who is going to miss work for the Dr.s appointment, plus daycare, healthcare, etc.

I don’t know that there is ever a great time to have a kid, I just wish I could have the stability of household that we have now, and the energy/resilience of my 20’s when an 18 hour day and a couple of hours of sleep were the norm.

Then I guess there’s a cap on intelligence, so far as it being a advantageous trait.

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
Seems to me that the most intelligent people in the world, of which many are women, derive their “meaning of life” in the form of their work. I imagine it’s tough to think about kids when you spend most waking hours in the lab/ER/etc. Can it (having kids+pushing the scientific envelope) be done? Sure, but it’s more than some people are willing to take on at once. [/quote]

Agreed

I can only speak from my experience and from observations I have made here in Ireland and could probably draw similar comparisons with the UK but I think the study does not represent what is really happening.

People from lower socioeconomic backgrounds (typically non-college people ergo ‘supposedly’ lower IQ’ers) tend to have kids early because they do not have a means or a culture of further education. So having kids is usually the next step in the process after basic formal education. Add to this here in Ireland people are entitled to a ‘children’s allowance’ meaning they get a monthly monetary allowance per child, more kids equates to more money! Plus if you have kids and are in the market for a house (minimal rent) the government will prioritise you over those who do not have kids. Basically what this does is incentivise young uneducated woman to have kids. This does not mean they have lower IQ’s it just means they are playing the hand that they have been dealt. I know plenty of intelligent women in this situation but I will also add I know plenty of idiots as well.

Girls who are lucky enough to have affluent parents or driven parents will inevitably enter college to pursue a qualification / degree and then onto a career which affords them ‘other’ options in their journey into adulthood such as travel, further education etc. which leaves them with little time to have kids. Again I know plenty of intelligent women in this situation but I will also add I know plenty of idiots as well.

Both my sisters in law are degree educated in the early 30’s, and are well traveled but have no kids. Their maternal instincts have been put on hold while they traveled and pursued careers. They have been busily distracted as to have their partners. However as life has settled a little and starter roots have been put down, they have now expressed a great desire to have kids.

It boils down to options not intelligence and for someone who is born into the benefit generation as experienced both here and the UK their young paths are limited.

That movie Idiocracy is something I see the world turning into for sure lol. I’d say predicting stupidity or a reduction in IQ has more to do with what we are currently eating and less to do with our choice of partners or whether or not our mothers are supposedly brain donors.

Btw both myself and my wife are degree educated with 3 kids under 5 and its fucking HARD! I am currently surviving on 2 hours kip today, usually getting between 4-5 hours a night. Harder than most jobs imo.

Encouraging woman out of the home and into the workplace means more available taxes and that’s something else to consider when society has been geared towards looking down on stay at home mothers (and fathers no sexism here)…

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Then I guess there’s a cap on intelligence, so far as it being a advantageous trait.[/quote]
Depends on the environment

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
I think this pertains more to younger people. In my experiences it’s been the people who didn’t go to college, or really have any big desires out of high school that ended up having kids at an early age. IMO there are more less intelligent people having kids at a younger age, where more intelligent people tend to wait.

on its own standing, it is smart to wait to have children.

Also now that I’m 28 I’ve noticed this attitude that people my age have. It’s really this like “what else is there to do” perspective. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve entered into conversations…actually mostly with women, about how you have the rest of you life to be married and have children. NOW is the time to not be married or have children so you can focus on you.
Because of my stance I’ve been called anything from a baby hater, to immature, to a selfish prick. (still can’t believe how upset some women get about this) But in my opinion I think it’s more selfish to have children when you’re personal development is not at a point where it can benefit your offspring the most.

[/quote]

I’ve pondered this quite a bit. I decided long ago (about your age) to wait a while. My wife and I had or son 10 mos. ago, me at 40, her at 36, both of us pretty well established in our careers and having a stable household.

It is still one hell of a challenge. Late night crying while teething, and myriad other things that come up make balancing work/home/each other/life in general very complicated. Who is going to miss work for the Dr.s appointment, plus daycare, healthcare, etc.

I don’t know that there is ever a great time to have a kid, I just wish I could have the stability of household that we have now, and the energy/resilience of my 20’s when an 18 hour day and a couple of hours of sleep were the norm.
[/quote]

Agreed.

having kids when you are still a kid isn’t smart.

However, life is all about family and friends. On your death bed, no one ever says, “I wish I spent more time at work”.

Another thought: If smart women are slowly eliminating themselves from the gene pool, could intelligence eventually become a sex-linked trait not unlike strength?

[quote]SLAINGE wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
Seems to me that the most intelligent people in the world, of which many are women, derive their “meaning of life” in the form of their work. I imagine it’s tough to think about kids when you spend most waking hours in the lab/ER/etc. Can it (having kids+pushing the scientific envelope) be done? Sure, but it’s more than some people are willing to take on at once. [/quote]

Agreed

I can only speak from my experience and from observations I have made here in Ireland and could probably draw similar comparisons with the UK but I think the study does not represent what is really happening.

People from lower socioeconomic backgrounds (typically non-college people ergo ‘supposedly’ lower IQ’ers) tend to have kids early because they do not have a means or a culture of further education. So having kids is usually the next step in the process after basic formal education. Add to this here in Ireland people are entitled to a ‘children’s allowance’ meaning they get a monthly monetary allowance per child, more kids equates to more money! Plus if you have kids and are in the market for a house (minimal rent) the government will prioritise you over those who do not have kids. Basically what this does is incentivise young uneducated woman to have kids. This does not mean they have lower IQ’s it just means they are playing the hand that they have been dealt. I know plenty of intelligent women in this situation but I will also add I know plenty of idiots as well.

Girls who are lucky enough to have affluent parents or driven parents will inevitably enter college to pursue a qualification / degree and then onto a career which affords them ‘other’ options in their journey into adulthood such as travel, further education etc. which leaves them with little time to have kids. Again I know plenty of intelligent women in this situation but I will also add I know plenty of idiots as well.

Both my sisters in law are degree educated in the early 30’s, and are well traveled but have no kids. Their maternal instincts have been put on hold while they traveled and pursued careers. They have been busily distracted as to have their partners. However as life has settled a little and starter roots have been put down, they have now expressed a great desire to have kids.

It boils down to options not intelligence and for someone who is born into the benefit generation as experienced both here and the UK their young paths are limited.

That movie Idiocracy is something I see the world turning into for sure lol. I’d say predicting stupidity or a reduction in IQ has more to do with what we are currently eating and less to do with our choice of partners or whether or not our mothers are supposedly brain donors.

Btw both myself and my wife are degree educated with 3 kids under 5 and its fucking HARD! I am currently surviving on 2 hours kip today, usually getting between 4-5 hours a night. Harder than most jobs imo.

Encouraging woman out of the home and into the workplace means more available taxes and that’s something else to consider when society has been geared towards looking down on stay at home mothers (and fathers no sexism here)…[/quote]
Great post, man

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
I think this pertains more to younger people. In my experiences it’s been the people who didn’t go to college, or really have any big desires out of high school that ended up having kids at an early age. IMO there are more less intelligent people having kids at a younger age, where more intelligent people tend to wait.

on its own standing, it is smart to wait to have children.

Also now that I’m 28 I’ve noticed this attitude that people my age have. It’s really this like “what else is there to do” perspective. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve entered into conversations…actually mostly with women, about how you have the rest of you life to be married and have children. NOW is the time to not be married or have children so you can focus on you.
Because of my stance I’ve been called anything from a baby hater, to immature, to a selfish prick. (still can’t believe how upset some women get about this) But in my opinion I think it’s more selfish to have children when you’re personal development is not at a point where it can benefit your offspring the most.

[/quote]

I’ve pondered this quite a bit. I decided long ago (about your age) to wait a while. My wife and I had or son 10 mos. ago, me at 40, her at 36, both of us pretty well established in our careers and having a stable household.

It is still one hell of a challenge. Late night crying while teething, and myriad other things that come up make balancing work/home/each other/life in general very complicated. Who is going to miss work for the Dr.s appointment, plus daycare, healthcare, etc.

I don’t know that there is ever a great time to have a kid, I just wish I could have the stability of household that we have now, and the energy/resilience of my 20’s when an 18 hour day and a couple of hours of sleep were the norm.
[/quote]

Agreed.

having kids when you are still a kid isn’t smart.

However, life is all about family and friends. On your death bed, no one ever says, “I wish I spent more time at work”.
[/quote]

Exactly, that satisfaction with life question from the study that said people without kids are more satisfied would probably take a serious shift if you asked the same people in 40 years or so (provided they remained childless). I would think that later in life, not having children would become a huge point of dissatisfaction for most people.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
I think this pertains more to younger people. In my experiences it’s been the people who didn’t go to college, or really have any big desires out of high school that ended up having kids at an early age. IMO there are more less intelligent people having kids at a younger age, where more intelligent people tend to wait.

on its own standing, it is smart to wait to have children.

Also now that I’m 28 I’ve noticed this attitude that people my age have. It’s really this like “what else is there to do” perspective. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve entered into conversations…actually mostly with women, about how you have the rest of you life to be married and have children. NOW is the time to not be married or have children so you can focus on you.
Because of my stance I’ve been called anything from a baby hater, to immature, to a selfish prick. (still can’t believe how upset some women get about this) But in my opinion I think it’s more selfish to have children when you’re personal development is not at a point where it can benefit your offspring the most.

[/quote]

I’ve pondered this quite a bit. I decided long ago (about your age) to wait a while. My wife and I had or son 10 mos. ago, me at 40, her at 36, both of us pretty well established in our careers and having a stable household.

It is still one hell of a challenge. Late night crying while teething, and myriad other things that come up make balancing work/home/each other/life in general very complicated. Who is going to miss work for the Dr.s appointment, plus daycare, healthcare, etc.

I don’t know that there is ever a great time to have a kid, I just wish I could have the stability of household that we have now, and the energy/resilience of my 20’s when an 18 hour day and a couple of hours of sleep were the norm.
[/quote]

Agreed.

having kids when you are still a kid isn’t smart.

However, life is all about family and friends. On your death bed, no one ever says, “I wish I spent more time at work”.
[/quote]

Exactly, that satisfaction with life question from the study that said people without kids are more satisfied would probably take a serious shift if you asked the same people in 40 years or so (provided they remained childless). I would think that later in life, not having children would become a huge point of dissatisfaction for most people.[/quote]
Most certainly

I hope everyone realizes the article’s focus was on women, as the results for men are the exact opposite. So a guy saying it’s bullshit because he’s happy or intelligent doesn’t do much to prove the article wrong.

That being said the article still has a million holes. Women with kids are twice as likely to stay in an unhappy relationship. The question is whether they were happy and not if the kid makes them happier, plus well … we all know how women are.

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Another thought: If smart women are slowly eliminating themselves from the gene pool, could intelligence eventually become a sex-linked trait not unlike strength?[/quote]

No…because the dumbest guys are the ones throwing their seed out the most.

5 kids from 4 different mommas can keep dumb on the rise.

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Another thought: If smart women are slowly eliminating themselves from the gene pool, could intelligence eventually become a sex-linked trait not unlike strength?[/quote]

It already is. Just consider that intelligence, like blue eyes, blond hair and susceptibility to Tay-Sachs and sickle-cell anemia, is carried on a recessive gene.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Another thought: If smart women are slowly eliminating themselves from the gene pool, could intelligence eventually become a sex-linked trait not unlike strength?[/quote]

No…because the dumbest guys are the ones throwing their seed out the most.

5 kids from 4 different mommas can keep dumb on the rise.[/quote]

Dumb guys… like King Solomon?

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
I think this pertains more to younger people. In my experiences it’s been the people who didn’t go to college, or really have any big desires out of high school that ended up having kids at an early age. IMO there are more less intelligent people having kids at a younger age, where more intelligent people tend to wait.

on its own standing, it is smart to wait to have children.

Also now that I’m 28 I’ve noticed this attitude that people my age have. It’s really this like “what else is there to do” perspective. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve entered into conversations…actually mostly with women, about how you have the rest of you life to be married and have children. NOW is the time to not be married or have children so you can focus on you.
Because of my stance I’ve been called anything from a baby hater, to immature, to a selfish prick. (still can’t believe how upset some women get about this) But in my opinion I think it’s more selfish to have children when you’re personal development is not at a point where it can benefit your offspring the most.

[/quote]

I’ve pondered this quite a bit. I decided long ago (about your age) to wait a while. My wife and I had or son 10 mos. ago, me at 40, her at 36, both of us pretty well established in our careers and having a stable household.

It is still one hell of a challenge. Late night crying while teething, and myriad other things that come up make balancing work/home/each other/life in general very complicated. Who is going to miss work for the Dr.s appointment, plus daycare, healthcare, etc.

I don’t know that there is ever a great time to have a kid, I just wish I could have the stability of household that we have now, and the energy/resilience of my 20’s when an 18 hour day and a couple of hours of sleep were the norm.
[/quote]

Agreed.

having kids when you are still a kid isn’t smart.

However, life is all about family and friends. On your death bed, no one ever says, “I wish I spent more time at work”.
[/quote]

Exactly, that satisfaction with life question from the study that said people without kids are more satisfied would probably take a serious shift if you asked the same people in 40 years or so (provided they remained childless). I would think that later in life, not having children would become a huge point of dissatisfaction for most people.[/quote]
Most certainly[/quote]

The psychologist Eric Erikson developed a theory of psychosocial development that I put a lot of stock into. Erik Erikson - Wikipedia
The last two stages are of particular interest to me at this point in life.

I’ve had discussions with a very good friend and mentor to me. He has been very successful as a doctor, professor, many other aspects of life, and in a number of ways has changed the way medicine is taught and practiced in his field. He is quite happy with the way his life has gone, and looking back probably wouldn’t have done anything differently. He hasn’t had any kids, and is generally un-attached relationship wise. In the later stages he is on the good side of those continuum.

On the other hand, I also know some parents/grandparents whom have fractured relationships with their children and grand children. They may have had decent to good careers, but are living with some very heavy regret. They would end up on what I’d consider the bad side of those continuum.

I’m pretty well aware of my future career wise and although it looks good, it isn’t going to be a defining element of my life. I do, however, have a good deal of confidence in my ability to bring up my son well enough to be happy and feel content with life now and in the future. He’s at a stage where changes come fast and often. Smiling, crawling, new teeth and all kinds of little things that are amazing to witness and be a part of happen almost daily. I would much rather be known as a good father, brother, and friend than one of the best welders in the world(which I am not.).

It’s not without a little trepidation though and day to day difficulty though. I’ve hit some bumps in the road and know that there will be more, but so far it has been absolutely worth it.

I’ve actually been thinking about starting a T-Baby thread lately just to shoot the bull with all of the other guys on here about it. Maybe gather some experiential knowledge of how it is for them and what may be in store, but also to gloat a little. The kid is adorable, and ironically- THE BEST WINGMAN EVER!

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Another thought: If smart women are slowly eliminating themselves from the gene pool, could intelligence eventually become a sex-linked trait not unlike strength?[/quote]

No…because the dumbest guys are the ones throwing their seed out the most.

5 kids from 4 different mommas can keep dumb on the rise.[/quote]

Dumb guys… like King Solomon?[/quote]

The most notorious example would be Genghis Khan.

I once read that he had a harem of thousands of women and as result, today 1 in 200 men are direct descendants of Genghis Khan

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-direct-descendants-of-genghis-khan/#.UgKqC6xKzk4