Avoiding Diabetes

[SargeMaximus]

Hey guys, hope you’re all doiung well.

So I managed to nearly hit my weight goal for the year (I wanted to be 180 lbs and last night I weighed myself at 179.2 lbs) and am now concerned about my diet.

I eat a lot of white rice (3 cups a day) and don’t want to get diebetes cause that wouldn’t be fun.

SO I’m wondering what I could replace it with when I can’t eat wheat or rye etc so breads and pastas are out of the question.

Potatoes I’ve heard are good but I don’t have a stove so cooking those would be next to impossible.

Hoping you guys have some good suggestions I haven’t thought of yet.

Thanks in advance!

[Lonnie123]

Check out par-boiled rice. It cuts the carbs in half I believe by converting them to “resistant starches”

I know very little about it so that might be misleading, do look into it. But that may help you out

[mertdawg]

1. Why do you think that white rice will cause diabetes?
2. Potatoes and white rice have virtually identical affect on blood sugar
3. What do you consider to be wrong with wheat, rye and pasta?

I DO consider wheat, rye, oats, corn and legumes to be a factor in developing diabetes in some people because they are inflammatory and trigger the release of cortisol, which raises blood sugar and results in a state of insulin resistance. Controlling cortisol should be goal #1 (which means getting GOOD sleep every night) and number 2 should be to not eat a diet that increases your body fat levels. Third would be to avoid post meal blood sugar spikes, which can harm your pancreatic cells (and others), but unless you already have genetic insulin resistance, or high stress/cortisol induced insulin resistance, or high body fat induced insulin resistance, there is nothing wrong with rice. A cup of white rice might send a non-insulin resistant persons blood sugar up to the 120s or so for half an hour. Adding fat, and an acid like a little vinegar will soften that spike as well, as will protein and adding veggies with fiber.

IF you are insulin resistant, a high fat diet can stress your pancreas as much as a low fat diet can, and a high fat diet actually increases insulin resistance, while a high carb diet (as long as calories are appropriate) will actually increase insulin sensitivity. Again the only harm from high fast carbs is blood sugar spikes that can damage cells. Pasta by the way, as well as high gluten wheat, is very low GI (if not overcooked). It does not spike blood sugar. The main issue I have with wheat is that it is inflammatory which leads to an insulin resistance cycle-more so in some people than others.

Starches basically come in two categories. 1) high glycemic index starches like rice, plaitain (banana flour), potatoes, and 2) Lower GI inflammatory starches like al dente pasta, rye, oats, corn, legumes. These tend to produce slow release of glucose, but again can lead to insulin resistance because they are inflammatory and result in release of stress hormones in many people. The High GI ones can just be tempered by combining them with protein, fibrous veggies, acid and fat, or eating them around exercise.

[SargeMaximus]

Hey mertdawg! Good to see you again!

@mertdawg

1. Why do you think that white rice will cause diabetes?

High GI?

@mertdawg

2. Potatoes and white rice have virtually identical affect on blood sugar

Didn’t know that. I’ll try to avoid them too. Thanks.

@mertdawg

3. What do you consider to be wrong with wheat, rye and pasta?

Nothing. However, my face which breaks out in rosacea after eating bread and pasta disagrees with me.

@mertdawg

I DO consider wheat, rye, oats, corn and legumes to be a factor in developing diabetes in some people because they are inflammatory and trigger the release of cortisol, which raises blood sugar and results in a state of insulin resistance. Controlling cortisol should be goal #1 (which means getting GOOD sleep every night) and number 2 should be to not eat a diet that increases your body fat levels. Third would be to avoid post meal blood sugar spikes, which can harm your pancreatic cells (and others), but unless you already have genetic insulin resistance, or high stress/cortisol induced insulin resistance, or high body fat induced insulin resistance, there is nothing wrong with rice. A cup of white rice might send a non-insulin resistant persons blood sugar up to the 120s or so for half an hour. Adding fat, and an acid like a little vinegar will soften that spike as well, as will protein and adding veggies with fiber.

Wait, corn is bad too?! I eat about 1.5 cups of corn a day.

As for the rice, it has a high GI so I thought it was bad. Parboiled rice is better no? I’m eating that now.

@mertdawg

IF you are insulin resistant, a high fat diet can stress your pancreas as much as a low fat diet can, and a high fat diet actually increases insulin resistance, while a high carb diet (as long as calories are appropriate) will actually increase insulin sensitivity. Again the only harm from high fast carbs is blood sugar spikes that can damage cells. Pasta by the way, as well as high gluten wheat, is very low GI (if not overcooked). It does not spike blood sugar. The main issue I have with wheat is that it is inflammatory which leads to an insulin resistance cycle-more so in some people than others.

Fair enough. Like I said, I break out with wheat, bread, pasta, hamburger buns, etc.

@mertdawg

Starches basically come in two categories. 1) high glycemic index starches like rice, plaitain (banana flour), potatoes, and 2) Lower GI inflammatory starches like al dente pasta, rye, oats, corn, legumes. These tend to produce slow release of glucose, but again can lead to insulin resistance because they are inflammatory and result in release of stress hormones in many people. The High GI ones can just be tempered by combining them with protein, fibrous veggies, acid and fat, or eating them around exercise.

Hmm… Very interesting. Thank you for all this info.

I suppose the next question is: What foods are both non-inflamatory AND low GI?

[mertdawg]

Corn is not as bad as wheat in terms of gut irritant and allergenic/inflammatory compounds. I would be fine eating 1.5 cups of corn. I would try to avoid corn meal though like tortillas.

If potatoes (and sweet potatoes) are boiled rather than baked, their GI stays “medium”. The high heat cooking like baking breaks up the resistant starch that is healthy and slows down absorption. Boiled plantain is similar. Anytime you are browning or cooking with dry heat, or frying the GI will go up (although the oil will slow down absorption also.)

Personally, I stick with white rice combined with a fat, and a little vinegar to slow down absorption. White rice as part of a mixed meal is not likely to spike blood sugar. I tested myself with 1 cup of white rice by itself, and also as part of a mixed dish with butter, egg yolk, mushrooms and onions and a splash of apple cider vinegar. The plain white rice got my peak blood sugar up around 130, while the mixed dish peaked out at only 110. I checked every 30 minutes for 3 hours. Also the plain rice ended up putting my blood sugar in the 60s after 3 hours while the mixed meal stayed in the 80s-no crash.

Rice, Potatoes, Plantain, Sweet potato, not overheated, and eaten in mixed meals with fat, protein, and veggies.

A couple of points. You have two goals. One is to prevent your pancreas from overworking 24/7. This is because it reduces your insulin sensitivity, and eventually causes a cycle that burns out the pancreas. The other is to keep blood sugar peaks under 140 because blood sugar over 140 destroys pancreatic cells.

The way to prevent the pancreas from overworking is to not eat too many total calories, lose bodyfat, exercise daily, sleep well, and avoid inflammatory foods. It is not really the result of reducing total carb content in a diet or GI. In fact, low GI meals may require more total insulin than high GI foods.

The way to avoid blood sugar spikes is to eat more around activity, eat mixed meals with fat, protein, veggies and some acid with carbs, and to also do everything in list 1 because if the pancreas is not overworked it will do a better job of protecting itself from high blood sugar.

[littlesleeper]

Some great questions and great answers in here sparked a question out of curiosity.

What are your thoughts on sourdough bread?

After reading this article:

The Best Muscle-Building Breakfast

TC makes the following comment:

Toast. Not just any toast, but sourdough toast. Sourdough is the sauerkraut of breads. It’s made by exposing the dough to millions of lactobacilli, which produces an incredibly complex bread with tons of nutrients. Furthermore, the fermentation process has broken down any gluten it contains, which should placate the anti-gluten people. It also contains almost no phytic acid, thereby allowing your gut to absorb most of its nutrients.

Lastly, the fermentation process has changed the molecular structure of the bread, thereby lowering its glycemic index and improving your glucose metabolism in general. Toasting it accentuates these changes. Top it off with a tablespoon of grass-fed butter, which contains lots of body-building and fat-burning conjugated linoleic acid (CLA).

So, I jumped on the train and bought a loaf of fresh whole wheat sourdough bread (which is delicious) and have been eating that with my breakfast for the past couple days.

[SargeMaximus]

@mertdawg

Corn is not as bad as wheat in terms of gut irritant and allergenic/inflammatory compounds. I would be fine eating 1.5 cups of corn. I would try to avoid corn meal though like tortillas.

Ok. Got it.

@mertdawg

If potatoes (and sweet potatoes) are boiled rather than baked, their GI stays “medium”. The high heat cooking like baking breaks up the resistant starch that is healthy and slows down absorption. Boiled plantain is similar. Anytime you are browning or cooking with dry heat, or frying the GI will go up (although the oil will slow down absorption also.)

Well I get my potatoes in a pre-packaged potato salad (for the calories). I only eat 1/2 cup a day, but I don’t know if the potatoes are boiled or baked.

@mertdawg

Personally, I stick with white rice combined with a fat, and a little vinegar to slow down absorption. White rice as part of a mixed meal is not likely to spike blood sugar. I tested myself with 1 cup of white rice by itself, and also as part of a mixed dish with butter, egg yolk, mushrooms and onions and a splash of apple cider vinegar. The plain white rice got my peak blood sugar up around 130, while the mixed dish peaked out at only 110. I checked every 30 minutes for 3 hours. Also the plain rice ended up putting my blood sugar in the 60s after 3 hours while the mixed meal stayed in the 80s-no crash.

Wow, you’re pretty hardcore to test on yourself. Clearly you know your shit.

However, what about parboiled? Like I mentioned I’m eating that now and it really doesn’t matter to me. If there’s no difference I’ll just end up going with what’s cheaper.

@mertdawg

Rice, Potatoes, Plantain, Sweet potato, not overheated, and eaten in mixed meals with fat, protein, and veggies.

So, my meals of 1 cup rice, 1/2 cup corn, 1/2 cup brown beans in tomato soup, 1/2 tin tuna (or 100g chicken) with a cup of milk would be fine?

@mertdawg

A couple of points. You have two goals. One is to prevent your pancreas from overworking 24/7. This is because it reduces your insulin sensitivity, and eventually causes a cycle that burns out the pancreas. The other is to keep blood sugar peaks under 140 because blood sugar over 140 destroys pancreatic cells.

The way to prevent the pancreas from overworking is to not eat too many total calories, lose bodyfat, exercise daily, sleep well, and avoid inflammatory foods. It is not really the result of reducing total carb content in a diet or GI. In fact, low GI meals may require more total insulin than high GI foods.

Hmm. well, I need to eat a lot of calories because I’m ectomorph. I think I’m eating around 3200 these days.

I also only exercise 4 days a week. I could up that to 5, but the weekends are so busy at the gym, I really don’t want to go unless I absolutely have to.

Inflamatory foods, you said 1.5 cups of corn a day was ok. Other than that, not sure what else I eat that might be inflammatory. Doritos? Lol. Corn meal is in those aren’t they?

Sucks if that’s the case lol.

@mertdawg

The way to avoid blood sugar spikes is to eat more around activity, eat mixed meals with fat, protein, veggies and some acid with carbs, and to also do everything in list 1 because if the pancreas is not overworked it will do a better job of protecting itself from high blood sugar.

Ok, thanks. I’m saving this advise to my evernote.

Oh btw, do you have a list of inflammatory foods and a general rule of thumb of how much is safe vs. how much is too much? I’d still like to eat some Doritos from time to time as well as knowing what to watch out for in case I change my diet up in the future.

Thanks!

[mertdawg]

My son has type 1 diabetes. If he eats high gluten pizza crust or pasta, it will raise his blood sugar for up to 12 hours! (he has to continue taking additional insulin for 8-12 hours after high gluten wheat). Sourdough does not do this, and that is a clear sign to me that the gluten and inflammatory compounds are largely removed by the process. He also needs much more TOTAL insulin for high gluten wheat products suggesting to me that they can lead to insulin resistance.

Gluten itself though greatly lowers the GI of wheat products by surrounding starch with the gluten coating and preventing it from being completely absorbed for many hours.

[mertdawg]

So if you boil potatoes and let them cool down to room temperature, the glygemic index drops considerably and because the resistant starch congeals and basically acts as a very healthy form of fiber (good for the gut bacteria too) unlike psylium that has been shown to weaken the junctions between endothelial cells.

[Yogi1]

I don’t mean any disrespect to anyone in this thread, but I cannot be the only person that thinks this is insane?

There’s no way a healthy, active young man is developing diabetes from 3 cups of rice a day.

I eat so much more rice than that every day and have done for years.

[SargeMaximus]

@Yogi1

I don’t mean any disrespect to anyone in this thread, but I cannot be the only person that thinks this is insane?

There’s no way a healthy, active young man is developing diabetes from 3 cups of rice a day.

I eat so much more rice than that every day and have done for years.

Lol, is it really no big deal? That’s good to know!

Seriously, I didn’t know (I know nothing about diebetes, just read some stuff and figured better safe than sorry) so that’s why I posted this.

[Yogi1]

Nobody’s getting type II diabetes from rice. Trust me on this.

If you’re interested in learning more about nutrition, check out everything you can by a company called Precision Nutrition and a man named Lyle McDonald. They are, in my opinion, the best resources around.

Alan Aragon is great too, but he doesn’t give out as much free stuff as the other two.

EDIT: I actually just googled how many grams of carbs are in a cup. The internet tells me 45g. Are you really only eating 135g of carbs a day?

[dchris]

I’m reading this trying to figure out how I’m not dead from eating 9 pints of ice cream in a week.

[Reed]

I was under the assumption he meant 3 cups precooked serving which is how I measure it. Which is closer to 500 carbs. With that being said I have recently found out I am a type 2 diabetic. Just so happen for the past two years to have been eating almost Jasmine Rice exclusively at 3-5 cups (precooked size) per day. While it runs in my family on both sides I highly doubt I did my self any favors eating that much rice, constantly, day in and day out. Especially coupled with the extremely low fat around 40g a day the entire time as well unless a specific cheat day.

[vulpes]

That is not an issue with rice it is the over 500g of carbs a day. Unless you are running ultra marathons I believe no one needs that many carbs.

[Reed]

Didn’t say it was a problem with the rice. But if he is eating 3 cups a day and it’s precooked size that 500g not including carbs from any where else he might be getting. Which in your own words becomes the problem lol whether rice or soda.

But, when you get 220 plus and 5’6" tall (in shoes) it takes alot of carbs and calories to gain any thing. Not to mention I work a physical construction job and out in the heat 10-12 hours a day.

Fat didn’t agree with me as much and always noticed the more fat I ate the fatter I got so I stayed away from it. Which left protein and carbs to stay very high and I saw no point in bumping protein any higher 300-330g I was already getting which left bumping carbs up and up and up.

[SargeMaximus]

I precook the rice for several days worth. When I say 3 cups, I mean 3 cups of already cooked (and refrigerated) rice.

[Reed]

Dude if you get diabetes from that you were just born to be diabetic and it doesn’t matter what you do.

[Yogi1]

well at least now you have license just to abuse the shit out of metformin!

So what’re you doing now? Dropping the carbs, I assume?

[Reed]

@Yogi1 Yeah pretty much. Dropped down to about 60g per meal.

300g protein (fish, lean beef, lean pork, eggs, beef/ chicken liver and whey
300g carbs (papaya, mango, pine apple, oats, and sweet potatoes)
50g fat at most mostly just from fish oil and what o get from eating the protein sources.

2 cheat meals a week usually ribeye and big ass potato and bread or pizza. Some how weight is still sitting steady at 225 even with the 2000 calorie reduction. Started making my food options based on micros rather than macros and I think that’s helping alot. Started watching and talking with Evan Centopani alot on this.