[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
What about the fact that those under 18 will be giving 45% of that $16 bucks right back.
Let me see, 45% of $16 is $7.25 so they really only make $8.75 an hour. So now there $8.75 buys less, awesome. [/quote]
You have to explain why their economy wasn’t hit by recession if this doesn’t work.
And how do you figure the income tax bracket for less than 37k a year is 45%?
[/quote]
I don’t have to explain anything, but since you asked so nicely. I linked the “youth” tax bracket info a page or so ago.
As far as the recession goes if they didn’t get hit by the recession and I had to wager a guess I’d say it was because their main five exports include fossil fuels and gold, all of which went up in cost over the last few years.[/quote]
So your concern is with those under 18 and this is an argument as to why the minimum wage in the U.S. can’t be raised?
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
What about the fact that those under 18 will be giving 45% of that $16 bucks right back.
Let me see, 45% of $16 is $7.25 so they really only make $8.75 an hour. So now there $8.75 buys less, awesome. [/quote]
You have to explain why their economy wasn’t hit by recession if this doesn’t work.
And how do you figure the income tax bracket for less than 37k a year is 45%?
[/quote]
What is their entitlement spending like? Have they had any large bubbles pushed for by an inept government? Do they have rampant corruption at every level to the extent we do in our government? Do they have the large amounts of indigents we do?
I don’t know the answer to this, but my guess is no. Our problems run much deeper than minimum wage. Minimum wage is like a drop in the ocean compared to the rest of our problems.[/quote]
I agree their are many problems in this country but you left out a huge issue. Do the Aussie’s have the huge amount corruption within their private sector not just the government?
Not sure what their overall entitlement costs are but they do have a government run healthcare system, a higher paying wage and they have avoided a major recession unlike the U.S.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
What about the fact that those under 18 will be giving 45% of that $16 bucks right back.
Let me see, 45% of $16 is $7.25 so they really only make $8.75 an hour. So now there $8.75 buys less, awesome. [/quote]
You have to explain why their economy wasn’t hit by recession if this doesn’t work.
And how do you figure the income tax bracket for less than 37k a year is 45%?
[/quote]
What is their entitlement spending like? Have they had any large bubbles pushed for by an inept government? Do they have rampant corruption at every level to the extent we do in our government? Do they have the large amounts of indigents we do?
I don’t know the answer to this, but my guess is no. Our problems run much deeper than minimum wage. Minimum wage is like a drop in the ocean compared to the rest of our problems.[/quote]
I agree their are many problems in this country but you left out a huge issue. Do the Aussie’s have the huge amount corruption within their private sector not just the government?
Not sure what their overall entitlement costs are but they do have a government run healthcare system, a higher paying wage and they have avoided a major recession unlike the U.S. [/quote]
Government and private sector corruption go hand in hand.
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Some of the cost will be passed on to the consumer and some ought to be passed on to McDonalds.[/quote]
That’s all I get. A one sentence answer.
So, some get’s passed to the consumer, which means cost of living goes up, which means_________?
So, some get’s paid by McDonald, which operates on a tight margin, which mean_________for the people employed?[/quote]
So some people will now have more money to spend which creates demand due to the increased spending which means_______________?[/quote]
They will spend more on the same goods they normally buy, ie a $2 hamburger that use to be $1.[/quote]
Wrong answer. It means they have more money to spend which creates demand which creates more jobs a side the right-wingers never mention.
[/quote]
Lol, okay Zep.
If that were true why not make minimum wage $100 an hour? That would give those making minimum wage more money to spend, which would increase demand, which would both grow the economy and increase job availability, right?
What you fail to consider is the VALUE of their dollar. It doesn’t matter if minimum wage is $1,000 an hour if milk cost $5,000 a gallon.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
What about the fact that those under 18 will be giving 45% of that $16 bucks right back.
Let me see, 45% of $16 is $7.25 so they really only make $8.75 an hour. So now there $8.75 buys less, awesome. [/quote]
You have to explain why their economy wasn’t hit by recession if this doesn’t work.
And how do you figure the income tax bracket for less than 37k a year is 45%?
[/quote]
I don’t have to explain anything, but since you asked so nicely. I linked the “youth” tax bracket info a page or so ago.
As far as the recession goes if they didn’t get hit by the recession and I had to wager a guess I’d say it was because their main five exports include fossil fuels and gold, all of which went up in cost over the last few years.[/quote]
So your concern is with those under 18 and this is an argument as to why the minimum wage in the U.S. can’t be raised?[/quote]
No. Go back and read what I originally wrote and the flow of the conversation for the context. I’m not going to hold your hand or explain the same things multiple times in the same thread.
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Some of the cost will be passed on to the consumer and some ought to be passed on to McDonalds.[/quote]
That’s all I get. A one sentence answer.
So, some get’s passed to the consumer, which means cost of living goes up, which means_________?
So, some get’s paid by McDonald, which operates on a tight margin, which mean_________for the people employed?[/quote]
So some people will now have more money to spend which creates demand due to the increased spending which means_______________?[/quote]
They will spend more on the same goods they normally buy, ie a $2 hamburger that use to be $1.[/quote]
Wrong answer. It means they have more money to spend which creates demand which creates more jobs a side the right-wingers never mention.
[/quote]
Lol, okay Zep.
If that were true why not make minimum wage $100 an hour? That would give those making minimum wage more money to spend, which would increase demand, which would both grow the economy and increase job availability, right?
What you fail to consider is the VALUE of their dollar. It doesn’t matter if minimum wage is $1,000 an hour if milk cost $5,000 a gallon.
[/quote]
No I’ve already considered the value of their dollar and the cost-of-living expenses. It would put the U.S. minimum around $12/hr. Still far better than what is offered today. Not to mention they have a government run healthcare system that saves them money. So their living expenses would need to be adjusted for that service.
Why don’t we just offer them $4/hr., that way everyone has a job? No one is advocating a ridiculous amount like $100hr. as the threshold of economics would not permit it. But that is far different than asking why can the Aussie’s do it but we can’t?
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Some of the cost will be passed on to the consumer and some ought to be passed on to McDonalds.[/quote]
That’s all I get. A one sentence answer.
So, some get’s passed to the consumer, which means cost of living goes up, which means_________?
So, some get’s paid by McDonald, which operates on a tight margin, which mean_________for the people employed?[/quote]
So some people will now have more money to spend which creates demand due to the increased spending which means_______________?[/quote]
They will spend more on the same goods they normally buy, ie a $2 hamburger that use to be $1.[/quote]
Wrong answer. It means they have more money to spend which creates demand which creates more jobs a side the right-wingers never mention.
[/quote]
Lol, okay Zep.
If that were true why not make minimum wage $100 an hour? That would give those making minimum wage more money to spend, which would increase demand, which would both grow the economy and increase job availability, right?
What you fail to consider is the VALUE of their dollar. It doesn’t matter if minimum wage is $1,000 an hour if milk cost $5,000 a gallon.
[/quote]
Yep. I challenged Dudley Do-Wrong awhile back to address my $48 an hour proposal. He picked up his toys, left the sandbox and went straight home.
Dudley, answer the fucking question: why shouldn’t we impose a $48 an hour minimum wage? It should do everything you’re insisting a higher minimum wage should do and more.
So why?[/quote]
Answered your dumb-ass question below to some person who was asking why don’t we offer$100/hr. No one is advocating for this ridiculous amount but you fail to answer why the Aussie’s can do it and we can’t?
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
What about the fact that those under 18 will be giving 45% of that $16 bucks right back.
Let me see, 45% of $16 is $7.25 so they really only make $8.75 an hour. So now there $8.75 buys less, awesome. [/quote]
You have to explain why their economy wasn’t hit by recession if this doesn’t work.
And how do you figure the income tax bracket for less than 37k a year is 45%?
[/quote]
What is their entitlement spending like? Have they had any large bubbles pushed for by an inept government? Do they have rampant corruption at every level to the extent we do in our government? Do they have the large amounts of indigents we do?
I don’t know the answer to this, but my guess is no. Our problems run much deeper than minimum wage. Minimum wage is like a drop in the ocean compared to the rest of our problems.[/quote]
I agree their are many problems in this country but you left out a huge issue. Do the Aussie’s have the huge amount corruption within their private sector not just the government?
Not sure what their overall entitlement costs are but they do have a government run healthcare system, a higher paying wage and they have avoided a major recession unlike the U.S. [/quote]
The tax bracket for children is done for a reason. So parents can’t cheat on their taxes by diverting income to their children.
The world would not come to an end if America would change some of it’s policies to benefit those earn a little money rather than always favoring those that earn a lot .
A higher minimum wage would have a resounding effect of probably all workers up to $25 an hour .
This Car Wash’s defense is we can not find enough legal people that will work in the blazing sun. What they really should say is we can not find enough stupid people that will be treated like shit and paid like shit too .
I promise if they had to pay $15 an hour they would fill every position same thing for migrant farm workers . I know for a fact these people are paid minimum wage . I also know there are all kinds of bogus reports claiming they are making great money
I don’t know how the Republicans have convinced middle class to think if we raise the minimum wage the world will come to an end or the sky will fall ? (pretty good use of straw man argument .
It is a good article by a reasonably unbiased media outlet . IMO it is all about common sense . And yes I know the Democrats are not (MUCH) better
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Some of the cost will be passed on to the consumer and some ought to be passed on to McDonalds.[/quote]
That’s all I get. A one sentence answer.
So, some get’s passed to the consumer, which means cost of living goes up, which means_________?
So, some get’s paid by McDonald, which operates on a tight margin, which mean_________for the people employed?[/quote]
So some people will now have more money to spend which creates demand due to the increased spending which means_______________?[/quote]
They will spend more on the same goods they normally buy, ie a $2 hamburger that use to be $1.[/quote]
Wrong answer. It means they have more money to spend which creates demand which creates more jobs a side the right-wingers never mention.
[/quote]
Lol, okay Zep.
If that were true why not make minimum wage $100 an hour? That would give those making minimum wage more money to spend, which would increase demand, which would both grow the economy and increase job availability, right?
What you fail to consider is the VALUE of their dollar. It doesn’t matter if minimum wage is $1,000 an hour if milk cost $5,000 a gallon.
[/quote]
No I’ve already considered the value of their dollar and the cost-of-living expenses. It would put the U.S. minimum around $12/hr. Still far better than what is offered today. Not to mention they have a government run healthcare system that saves them money. So their living expenses would need to be adjusted for that service.
Why don’t we just offer them $4/hr., that way everyone has a job? No one is advocating a ridiculous amount like $100hr. as the threshold of economics would not permit it. But that is far different than asking why can the Aussie’s do it but we can’t?[/quote]
I don’t think you’ve give it enough thought then. Purcahsing power is > in America, which was provided on page 1:
[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Wow! Double your minimum wage? And no negative economic consequences? That’s amazing!
Oh wait, Americans have >30% more purchasing power than Aussies…
Indices Difference Info
Consumer Prices in United States are 32.12% lower than in Australia
Consumer Prices Including Rent in United States are 35.26% lower than in Australia
Rent Prices in United States are 41.57% lower than in Australia
Restaurant Prices in United States are 31.61% lower than in Australia
Groceries Prices in United States are 26.46% lower than in Australia
Local Purchasing Power in United States is 31.07% higher than in Australia
Here you have anecdotal evidence:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
A good buddy of mine lived over there for a year and a half working as a fruit picker making $18 an hour. That sounds great 'til you realize a 12 pack of beer is 30 bucks. He saod you couldn’t go out and get some grub and a few drinks for less than a hundo. Point is, who gives a fuck if minimum wage is double the average here if standard living expenses are almost triple.
[/quote]
And more anecdotal evidence:
[quote]Oldnbroken wrote:
I am not an economist, but I am an Aussie, so here’s my 2c.
The cost of living is definitely higher in AS than in the US. The cost of housing is extremely high (we have 5 of the top 10 least affordable cities in the world to buy a house in). But what we do have is a massive welfare system. We simply dont have the poverty and homelessness in AS that I have seen in the US (I lived in Virginia for a couple years). While it does exist its generally isolated (Aboriginal Communites have much higher rates of poverty, and much lower life expectancy than the rest of AS). The AS government provides a wage to the unemployed (called the Dole) and provides Government housing to the poor. We have a health system called Medicare which provides subsidised or free (depending on what you earn) health care to all Australians. We have free education through to High School and a University system that allows you to pay your tuition after you start earning a decent wage (called the Higher Education Scheme). We also have an excellent trade training schemes and apprenticeships. So our Government does make it easy to for all Australians to grow, get educated and get a decent job, buy a house and have children. We also have mandatory superannuation, which means that all Australians must contribute to their retirement.
All of this is paid for by our Taxation system, which is bloody complex let me assure you. As much as I hate paying as much tax as I do, I would still prefer to live in AS than any other county in the world. We have a good economy (despite the Labor governments ham fisted efforts), low levels of violent crime, no real threat (in terms of defense of AS), great weather, a fantastic multicultural society, good healthcare and education. I have lived in the US, the UK, the UAE, Canada and visited many other countries in he world, but as the song says, I still call Australia home.
[/quote]
Education is more expensive, also already provided for you:
We have a partial explanation why $16/ hour hasn’t bankrupt the AUS gov and why they weren’t hit by the recession:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]speedycerviche wrote:
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Here is the exchange rate. Curious when living standards are applied how much the difference in pay comes out to? Of course education and medical needs to be taken into account. Also their unemployment is much lower. Then why do economists in the U.S. say if you raise minimum wage you loose jobs?
in Australia, they are losing those jobs because it is just too expensive to do that stuff there compared to the cheaper markets in South East Asia.
A big reason Australia still has a fantastic economy is due to its relatively SMALL SIZE and the fact it is in the middle of a MINING BOOM. [/quote]
Well that pretty much ends this thread.[/quote]
A statement ends this thread?
[/quote]
Yes, it explains how a system that is unsustainable, yet you are singing its praises, is somehow looking like its working. It will eventually fold however when the factors propping up a broken system cease to exist.[/quote]
Then of course you have this gem:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
You have it backwards—Australia has a higher cost of living than the US, and the US has a higher median household income. The US also has a higher purchasing power of its dollar. Also, your term “real purchasing power” is PPP, which is already in the US’s favor, and has already been mentioned in this thread.
[/quote]
Then you have the increase cost of raising minimum wage that will be paid for by?
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
A raise from $7.25 to $16 would = about $34.12M increase in salary expense ONLY in America. Who would pay for this increase? Mom and pop shops, individual franchise owners, and other small businesses already operating on small margins. It also means pay cuts in the form of pink slips. Which means more unemployment benefits used, which means greater tax burden.
I realize you think this would some how hurt the big nasty corporations, but it wouldn’t almost at all. [/quote]
Then you have Australians paying more in taxes:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Oh and Australians have a higher individual tax rate.
Australia
0 ? $18,200 Nil 0%
$18,201 ? $37,000 19c for each $1 over $18,200 0 ? 9.7%
$37,001 ? $80,000 $3,572 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $37,000 9.7 ? 21.9%
$80,001 ? $180,000 $17,547 plus 37c for each $1 over $80,000 21.9 ? 30.3%
$180,001 and over $54,547 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000 30.3 ? 44.9%
And they are way less fat so I can imagine their health care cost less…
[/quote]
And of course minors pay 45%, I know it’s to keep the parent’s from cheating, lol.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
They tax minors a lot, get emmm use to the government being in control I guess…Damn 45% after $1,300 bucks wow.
Income tax for Minors[edit source | editbeta]Individuals under 18 years of age are taxed differently from adults.[7]
Taxable income Tax on this income Effective Tax Rate
$0 ? $416 Nil 0%
$416 ? $1,307 66c for each $1 over $416 0 ? 45%
$1,308 and over 45% of total income 45%
If a minor works 20 hours a week it takes a whooping 4-5 weeks to hit $1,308. So I guess every highschool kid in Australia pay 45% to the gov. Awesome![/quote]
Another gem by Aragorn:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
A comparison in numbers does nothing to refute the fact that the Aussies have a much higher minimum wage.
The burden of proof is on those who say there are reasons as to why what we are told won’t work does. I simply pointed out that the Aussies have more purchasing power due to their much higher minimum wage. Even when you figure in the higher cost of living.
[/quote]
LOL. You don’t get it do you? EVERYBODY HERE KNOWS AND ACKNOWLEDGES that Aussies have a higher minimum wage. Nobody has ever denied that. Hell, the Thread title states it and I don’t see anybody arguing that the U.S.'s minimum wage is higher. If they’re there, why don’t you quote them please?
You “pointed out” a fucking falsehood–Americans have more purchasing power by the metrics. Not the Aussies. This was even confirmed by a resident Australian.
Americans have a higher median household income
Americans have a higher purchasing power
Americans have a lower COST of living.
In other words, everything you just “pointed out” was 100% wrong, and in fact is the opposite of reality, and has already been linked and sourced in this thread. And the best that you can come up with is continuing to misdirect. It all has yet to be refuted by you because you are incapable of doing anything except repeating your ideologically driven talking points like a broken record. You are married to your ideology.
[/quote]
I think that pretty much sums the thread up.
So your argument is, it works in Australia so it should work in America. You ignore the fact that each economy is different. You ignore the fact that a raise in minimum wage hurts mostly small businesses.
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Some of the cost will be passed on to the consumer and some ought to be passed on to McDonalds.[/quote]
That’s all I get. A one sentence answer.
So, some get’s passed to the consumer, which means cost of living goes up, which means_________?
So, some get’s paid by McDonald, which operates on a tight margin, which mean_________for the people employed?[/quote]
So some people will now have more money to spend which creates demand due to the increased spending which means_______________?[/quote]
They will spend more on the same goods they normally buy, ie a $2 hamburger that use to be $1.[/quote]
Wrong answer. It means they have more money to spend which creates demand which creates more jobs a side the right-wingers never mention.
[/quote]
Lol, okay Zep.
If that were true why not make minimum wage $100 an hour? That would give those making minimum wage more money to spend, which would increase demand, which would both grow the economy and increase job availability, right?
What you fail to consider is the VALUE of their dollar. It doesn’t matter if minimum wage is $1,000 an hour if milk cost $5,000 a gallon.
[/quote]
No I’ve already considered the value of their dollar and the cost-of-living expenses. It would put the U.S. minimum around $12/hr. Still far better than what is offered today. Not to mention they have a government run healthcare system that saves them money. So their living expenses would need to be adjusted for that service.
Why don’t we just offer them $4/hr., that way everyone has a job? No one is advocating a ridiculous amount like $100hr. as the threshold of economics would not permit it. But that is far different than asking why can the Aussie’s do it but we can’t?[/quote]
I don’t think you’ve give it enough thought then. Purcahsing power is > in America, which was provided on page 1:
[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Wow! Double your minimum wage? And no negative economic consequences? That’s amazing!
Oh wait, Americans have >30% more purchasing power than Aussies…
Indices Difference Info
Consumer Prices in United States are 32.12% lower than in Australia
Consumer Prices Including Rent in United States are 35.26% lower than in Australia
Rent Prices in United States are 41.57% lower than in Australia
Restaurant Prices in United States are 31.61% lower than in Australia
Groceries Prices in United States are 26.46% lower than in Australia
Local Purchasing Power in United States is 31.07% higher than in Australia
Here you have anecdotal evidence:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
A good buddy of mine lived over there for a year and a half working as a fruit picker making $18 an hour. That sounds great 'til you realize a 12 pack of beer is 30 bucks. He saod you couldn’t go out and get some grub and a few drinks for less than a hundo. Point is, who gives a fuck if minimum wage is double the average here if standard living expenses are almost triple.
[/quote]
And more anecdotal evidence:
[quote]Oldnbroken wrote:
I am not an economist, but I am an Aussie, so here’s my 2c.
The cost of living is definitely higher in AS than in the US. The cost of housing is extremely high (we have 5 of the top 10 least affordable cities in the world to buy a house in). But what we do have is a massive welfare system. We simply dont have the poverty and homelessness in AS that I have seen in the US (I lived in Virginia for a couple years). While it does exist its generally isolated (Aboriginal Communites have much higher rates of poverty, and much lower life expectancy than the rest of AS). The AS government provides a wage to the unemployed (called the Dole) and provides Government housing to the poor. We have a health system called Medicare which provides subsidised or free (depending on what you earn) health care to all Australians. We have free education through to High School and a University system that allows you to pay your tuition after you start earning a decent wage (called the Higher Education Scheme). We also have an excellent trade training schemes and apprenticeships. So our Government does make it easy to for all Australians to grow, get educated and get a decent job, buy a house and have children. We also have mandatory superannuation, which means that all Australians must contribute to their retirement.
All of this is paid for by our Taxation system, which is bloody complex let me assure you. As much as I hate paying as much tax as I do, I would still prefer to live in AS than any other county in the world. We have a good economy (despite the Labor governments ham fisted efforts), low levels of violent crime, no real threat (in terms of defense of AS), great weather, a fantastic multicultural society, good healthcare and education. I have lived in the US, the UK, the UAE, Canada and visited many other countries in he world, but as the song says, I still call Australia home.
[/quote]
Education is more expensive, also already provided for you:
We have a partial explanation why $16/ hour hasn’t bankrupt the AUS gov and why they weren’t hit by the recession:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]speedycerviche wrote:
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Here is the exchange rate. Curious when living standards are applied how much the difference in pay comes out to? Of course education and medical needs to be taken into account. Also their unemployment is much lower. Then why do economists in the U.S. say if you raise minimum wage you loose jobs?
in Australia, they are losing those jobs because it is just too expensive to do that stuff there compared to the cheaper markets in South East Asia.
A big reason Australia still has a fantastic economy is due to its relatively SMALL SIZE and the fact it is in the middle of a MINING BOOM. [/quote]
Well that pretty much ends this thread.[/quote]
A statement ends this thread?
[/quote]
Yes, it explains how a system that is unsustainable, yet you are singing its praises, is somehow looking like its working. It will eventually fold however when the factors propping up a broken system cease to exist.[/quote]
Then of course you have this gem:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
You have it backwards—Australia has a higher cost of living than the US, and the US has a higher median household income. The US also has a higher purchasing power of its dollar. Also, your term “real purchasing power” is PPP, which is already in the US’s favor, and has already been mentioned in this thread.
[/quote]
Then you have the increase cost of raising minimum wage that will be paid for by?
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
A raise from $7.25 to $16 would = about $34.12M increase in salary expense ONLY in America. Who would pay for this increase? Mom and pop shops, individual franchise owners, and other small businesses already operating on small margins. It also means pay cuts in the form of pink slips. Which means more unemployment benefits used, which means greater tax burden.
I realize you think this would some how hurt the big nasty corporations, but it wouldn’t almost at all. [/quote]
Then you have Australians paying more in taxes:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Oh and Australians have a higher individual tax rate.
Australia
0 ? $18,200 Nil 0%
$18,201 ? $37,000 19c for each $1 over $18,200 0 ? 9.7%
$37,001 ? $80,000 $3,572 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $37,000 9.7 ? 21.9%
$80,001 ? $180,000 $17,547 plus 37c for each $1 over $80,000 21.9 ? 30.3%
$180,001 and over $54,547 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000 30.3 ? 44.9%
And they are way less fat so I can imagine their health care cost less…
[/quote]
And of course minors pay 45%, I know it’s to keep the parent’s from cheating, lol.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
They tax minors a lot, get emmm use to the government being in control I guess…Damn 45% after $1,300 bucks wow.
Income tax for Minors[edit source | editbeta]Individuals under 18 years of age are taxed differently from adults.[7]
Taxable income Tax on this income Effective Tax Rate
$0 ? $416 Nil 0%
$416 ? $1,307 66c for each $1 over $416 0 ? 45%
$1,308 and over 45% of total income 45%
If a minor works 20 hours a week it takes a whooping 4-5 weeks to hit $1,308. So I guess every highschool kid in Australia pay 45% to the gov. Awesome![/quote]
Another gem by Aragorn:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
A comparison in numbers does nothing to refute the fact that the Aussies have a much higher minimum wage.
The burden of proof is on those who say there are reasons as to why what we are told won’t work does. I simply pointed out that the Aussies have more purchasing power due to their much higher minimum wage. Even when you figure in the higher cost of living.
[/quote]
LOL. You don’t get it do you? EVERYBODY HERE KNOWS AND ACKNOWLEDGES that Aussies have a higher minimum wage. Nobody has ever denied that. Hell, the Thread title states it and I don’t see anybody arguing that the U.S.'s minimum wage is higher. If they’re there, why don’t you quote them please?
You “pointed out” a fucking falsehood–Americans have more purchasing power by the metrics. Not the Aussies. This was even confirmed by a resident Australian.
Americans have a higher median household income
Americans have a higher purchasing power
Americans have a lower COST of living.
In other words, everything you just “pointed out” was 100% wrong, and in fact is the opposite of reality, and has already been linked and sourced in this thread. And the best that you can come up with is continuing to misdirect. It all has yet to be refuted by you because you are incapable of doing anything except repeating your ideologically driven talking points like a broken record. You are married to your ideology.
[/quote]
I think that pretty much sums the thread up.
So your argument is, it works in Australia so it should work in America. You ignore the fact that each economy is different. You ignore the fact that a raise in minimum wage hurts mostly small businesses.
Am I missing anything? [/quote]
And you ignore the fact that Australia is doing it and I would assume you would use the same argument about healthcare?
Some will loose their jobs but some will gain jobs due to increased demand. In addition some will have an easier time financially because of the increased pay rate.
So your argument is because our economy isn’t an exact mirror image of the Aussie’s then it won’t work here?
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Some of the cost will be passed on to the consumer and some ought to be passed on to McDonalds.[/quote]
That’s all I get. A one sentence answer.
So, some get’s passed to the consumer, which means cost of living goes up, which means_________?
So, some get’s paid by McDonald, which operates on a tight margin, which mean_________for the people employed?[/quote]
So some people will now have more money to spend which creates demand due to the increased spending which means_______________?[/quote]
They will spend more on the same goods they normally buy, ie a $2 hamburger that use to be $1.[/quote]
Wrong answer. It means they have more money to spend which creates demand which creates more jobs a side the right-wingers never mention.
[/quote]
Lol, okay Zep.
If that were true why not make minimum wage $100 an hour? That would give those making minimum wage more money to spend, which would increase demand, which would both grow the economy and increase job availability, right?
What you fail to consider is the VALUE of their dollar. It doesn’t matter if minimum wage is $1,000 an hour if milk cost $5,000 a gallon.
[/quote]
No I’ve already considered the value of their dollar and the cost-of-living expenses. It would put the U.S. minimum around $12/hr. Still far better than what is offered today. Not to mention they have a government run healthcare system that saves them money. So their living expenses would need to be adjusted for that service.
Why don’t we just offer them $4/hr., that way everyone has a job? No one is advocating a ridiculous amount like $100hr. as the threshold of economics would not permit it. But that is far different than asking why can the Aussie’s do it but we can’t?[/quote]
I don’t think you’ve give it enough thought then. Purcahsing power is > in America, which was provided on page 1:
[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
Wow! Double your minimum wage? And no negative economic consequences? That’s amazing!
Oh wait, Americans have >30% more purchasing power than Aussies…
Indices Difference Info
Consumer Prices in United States are 32.12% lower than in Australia
Consumer Prices Including Rent in United States are 35.26% lower than in Australia
Rent Prices in United States are 41.57% lower than in Australia
Restaurant Prices in United States are 31.61% lower than in Australia
Groceries Prices in United States are 26.46% lower than in Australia
Local Purchasing Power in United States is 31.07% higher than in Australia
Here you have anecdotal evidence:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
A good buddy of mine lived over there for a year and a half working as a fruit picker making $18 an hour. That sounds great 'til you realize a 12 pack of beer is 30 bucks. He saod you couldn’t go out and get some grub and a few drinks for less than a hundo. Point is, who gives a fuck if minimum wage is double the average here if standard living expenses are almost triple.
[/quote]
And more anecdotal evidence:
[quote]Oldnbroken wrote:
I am not an economist, but I am an Aussie, so here’s my 2c.
The cost of living is definitely higher in AS than in the US. The cost of housing is extremely high (we have 5 of the top 10 least affordable cities in the world to buy a house in). But what we do have is a massive welfare system. We simply dont have the poverty and homelessness in AS that I have seen in the US (I lived in Virginia for a couple years). While it does exist its generally isolated (Aboriginal Communites have much higher rates of poverty, and much lower life expectancy than the rest of AS). The AS government provides a wage to the unemployed (called the Dole) and provides Government housing to the poor. We have a health system called Medicare which provides subsidised or free (depending on what you earn) health care to all Australians. We have free education through to High School and a University system that allows you to pay your tuition after you start earning a decent wage (called the Higher Education Scheme). We also have an excellent trade training schemes and apprenticeships. So our Government does make it easy to for all Australians to grow, get educated and get a decent job, buy a house and have children. We also have mandatory superannuation, which means that all Australians must contribute to their retirement.
All of this is paid for by our Taxation system, which is bloody complex let me assure you. As much as I hate paying as much tax as I do, I would still prefer to live in AS than any other county in the world. We have a good economy (despite the Labor governments ham fisted efforts), low levels of violent crime, no real threat (in terms of defense of AS), great weather, a fantastic multicultural society, good healthcare and education. I have lived in the US, the UK, the UAE, Canada and visited many other countries in he world, but as the song says, I still call Australia home.
[/quote]
Education is more expensive, also already provided for you:
We have a partial explanation why $16/ hour hasn’t bankrupt the AUS gov and why they weren’t hit by the recession:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]speedycerviche wrote:
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Here is the exchange rate. Curious when living standards are applied how much the difference in pay comes out to? Of course education and medical needs to be taken into account. Also their unemployment is much lower. Then why do economists in the U.S. say if you raise minimum wage you loose jobs?
in Australia, they are losing those jobs because it is just too expensive to do that stuff there compared to the cheaper markets in South East Asia.
A big reason Australia still has a fantastic economy is due to its relatively SMALL SIZE and the fact it is in the middle of a MINING BOOM. [/quote]
Well that pretty much ends this thread.[/quote]
A statement ends this thread?
[/quote]
Yes, it explains how a system that is unsustainable, yet you are singing its praises, is somehow looking like its working. It will eventually fold however when the factors propping up a broken system cease to exist.[/quote]
Then of course you have this gem:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
You have it backwards—Australia has a higher cost of living than the US, and the US has a higher median household income. The US also has a higher purchasing power of its dollar. Also, your term “real purchasing power” is PPP, which is already in the US’s favor, and has already been mentioned in this thread.
[/quote]
Then you have the increase cost of raising minimum wage that will be paid for by?
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
A raise from $7.25 to $16 would = about $34.12M increase in salary expense ONLY in America. Who would pay for this increase? Mom and pop shops, individual franchise owners, and other small businesses already operating on small margins. It also means pay cuts in the form of pink slips. Which means more unemployment benefits used, which means greater tax burden.
I realize you think this would some how hurt the big nasty corporations, but it wouldn’t almost at all. [/quote]
Then you have Australians paying more in taxes:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Oh and Australians have a higher individual tax rate.
Australia
0 ? $18,200 Nil 0%
$18,201 ? $37,000 19c for each $1 over $18,200 0 ? 9.7%
$37,001 ? $80,000 $3,572 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $37,000 9.7 ? 21.9%
$80,001 ? $180,000 $17,547 plus 37c for each $1 over $80,000 21.9 ? 30.3%
$180,001 and over $54,547 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000 30.3 ? 44.9%
And they are way less fat so I can imagine their health care cost less…
[/quote]
And of course minors pay 45%, I know it’s to keep the parent’s from cheating, lol.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
They tax minors a lot, get emmm use to the government being in control I guess…Damn 45% after $1,300 bucks wow.
Income tax for Minors[edit source | editbeta]Individuals under 18 years of age are taxed differently from adults.[7]
Taxable income Tax on this income Effective Tax Rate
$0 ? $416 Nil 0%
$416 ? $1,307 66c for each $1 over $416 0 ? 45%
$1,308 and over 45% of total income 45%
If a minor works 20 hours a week it takes a whooping 4-5 weeks to hit $1,308. So I guess every highschool kid in Australia pay 45% to the gov. Awesome![/quote]
Another gem by Aragorn:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
A comparison in numbers does nothing to refute the fact that the Aussies have a much higher minimum wage.
The burden of proof is on those who say there are reasons as to why what we are told won’t work does. I simply pointed out that the Aussies have more purchasing power due to their much higher minimum wage. Even when you figure in the higher cost of living.
[/quote]
LOL. You don’t get it do you? EVERYBODY HERE KNOWS AND ACKNOWLEDGES that Aussies have a higher minimum wage. Nobody has ever denied that. Hell, the Thread title states it and I don’t see anybody arguing that the U.S.'s minimum wage is higher. If they’re there, why don’t you quote them please?
You “pointed out” a fucking falsehood–Americans have more purchasing power by the metrics. Not the Aussies. This was even confirmed by a resident Australian.
Americans have a higher median household income
Americans have a higher purchasing power
Americans have a lower COST of living.
In other words, everything you just “pointed out” was 100% wrong, and in fact is the opposite of reality, and has already been linked and sourced in this thread. And the best that you can come up with is continuing to misdirect. It all has yet to be refuted by you because you are incapable of doing anything except repeating your ideologically driven talking points like a broken record. You are married to your ideology.
[/quote]
I think that pretty much sums the thread up.
So your argument is, it works in Australia so it should work in America. You ignore the fact that each economy is different. You ignore the fact that a raise in minimum wage hurts mostly small businesses.
Am I missing anything? [/quote]
And you ignore the fact that Australia is doing it and I would assume you would use the same argument about healthcare?
Some will loose their jobs but some will gain jobs due to increased demand. In addition some will have an easier time financially because of the increased pay rate.
So your argument is because our economy isn’t an exact mirror image of the Aussie’s then it won’t work here?[/quote]
I don’t really care what Australia is doing. Last I checked their economy is no where near as vast as ours is. They have less peoples in total, less people on minimum wage, a smaller GDP, different industries that make up their local economy, globally their imports/exports are different and go to different countries than ours, their healthcare supports about 300,000,000 less people, their tax rates are higher, their purchasing power is lower, their cost of living is higher,their education costs are higher, and I’m sure etc…
My position has and will always be people should earn their fair market value. If you are a 30 year CPA your value is higher than if you drop out of high school. Your stuck making $7.25/hr too bad. Find a way to add value to a company and blam you’re making more money.
Like my very 1st post said. Australia and USA does not equal apples to apples.
