Atheism-o-Phobia Part 3

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
261

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Hey ephrem you and Mak have probably done more for Christianity on this board than any of the rest of could do. I know this will continue as long as you see yourselves as poster boys for atheism.

God uses us all in different ways.

:)[/quote]

Thanks ZEB, if even one person realised that religious hatred is wrong due to what i, or another non-believer, said over the years; it’ll make me happy.
[/quote]

But you don’t say it’s wrong. You hate religion. Indeed, if anything’s clear from your posts, it’s that you hate religion. Your little twist is that you want everyone to hate all religions. [/quote]

Hate is a too strong a word. A “healthy dislike” describes my sentiments much better.
[/quote]

Well, you’re smart guy, and so is forlife and as the Bible says in

[b]Matthew 18:2-4 "

“He called a little child to him and places the child among them. And he said: 'Truly I tell you unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.”[/b]

This scripture is very difficult to accept. Letting go of what you think is correct and following God is not easy. But as I said God uses us all in different ways for his ultimate purpose. I assume that you are a young man. If so you have a long way to go and may change your mind.

God only knows.
[/quote]

This is how you sustain your delusions zeb; by ignoring facts. I’m 39. I’ve said this numerous times now, and if you want to be childlike and believe everything you’re told, be my guest.

262

[quote]ephrem wrote:
This is how you sustain your delusions zeb; by ignoring facts. I’m 39. I’ve said this numerous times now, and if you want to be childlike and believe everything you’re told, be my guest.

[/quote]

This.

263

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Now, to answer forlife. In general, I don’t hate other religions. In fact, I can even respect their search. If anything I’m indifferent to them, most of the time. Unlike the atheist in doubt, I don’t bat an eye at what the Hindu, Buddhist, Jew, Jehovah Witness, or the Animist believes about my faith, or the destination of the soul upon death. I’m not into the whiny “No, I want more than peaceful toleration, you must recognize me as interchangeable with yourself and your faith. We must see each other like ice cream flavors at the local Baskin Robbins! You get strawberry, and I’ll get vanilla. Or I’ll get vanilla and you get strawberry, it doesn’t matter! Weeee!”[/quote]

Don’t you believe that millions of people from other faiths who are equally devout and equally convinced their religion is correct, will be damned to eternal suffering because they aren’t baptized into the catholic church? Or do you disagree with your church on that point?

264

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
Are you all that different from Ephrem? The only difference between you and him is that he hates one less religion than you do.[/quote]

Only if you assume that no one is right. I’m betting with my eternal soul that I’m right. And you are betting with your eternal soul that I’m wrong. The good part is that someday we both get to find out who was right.[/quote]

More accurately, you’re betting with your hypothetical eternal soul that your particular brand of religion is correct, and the thousands of other brands, including the other brands of Christianity, are false.

Seems like a pretty big gamble, based on an emotional feeling that is shared by those same people, who are equally convinced that you are going to hell.

265

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Now, to answer forlife. In general, I don’t hate other religions. In fact, I can even respect their search. If anything I’m indifferent to them, most of the time. Unlike the atheist in doubt, I don’t bat an eye at what the Hindu, Buddhist, Jew, Jehovah Witness, or the Animist believes about my faith, or the destination of the soul upon death. I’m not into the whiny “No, I want more than peaceful toleration, you must recognize me as interchangeable with yourself and your faith. We must see each other like ice cream flavors at the local Baskin Robbins! You get strawberry, and I’ll get vanilla. Or I’ll get vanilla and you get strawberry, it doesn’t matter! Weeee!”[/quote]

Don’t you believe that millions of people from other faiths who are equally devout and equally convinced their religion is correct, will be damned to eternal suffering because they aren’t baptized into the catholic church? Or do you disagree with your church on that point?[/quote]

Yep. They don’t believe in my faith’s afterlife, nor I theirs. I find it’s the supposed atheist who is generally panicked over the ‘final destination’ others believe in. I lose no sleep over it. It being oblivion, hades, or some looping ressurection.

266

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
Zeb, you still haven’t answered my question.[/quote]

I did answer the question that you asked about evidence. But don’t thank me it was fun.

[quote]There are millions of Christians that believe in the same bible you believe in. Those millions of Christians have had religious experiences as profound as your own.

However…

Those millions of Christians have beliefs that DIRECTLY CONTRADICT your own beliefs.

How do you reconcile that?[/quote]

Please be specific as to what has contradicted my own experiences.

If you tell me what experiences that you’re talking about then I could respond.

And apparently you’re satisfied with the evidence that I’ve posted that has at least partially led me to Christianity. Otherwise, I’m sure you would have mentioned something about it. But I hear crickets chirping.
[/quote]

Your “evidence” is nothing more than a loose collection of writings by men, who could have had any number of reasons for the claims they made. More importantly, most other religions have similar writings, which they put forth as solid evidence for their own beliefs, which directly contradict your own. Logically, this “evidence” is unreliable because it leads people to contradictory conclusions.

Let’s pick an easy example for starters. Catholics use your evidence to support their claim to being god’s true church, and devoutly believe that people not baptized in their church will go to hell. Born again Christians use this same evidence to support their claim that Catholicism is an abomination. They don’t believe in a trinitarian supernatural being, but catholics insist that god, Jesus, and the holy spirit are part of the same being, which is without body, parts, or passions. Catholics believe the communion is literally transformed into the blood and body of Christ, and born again Christians view the sacrament as strictly symbolic.

These are core, contradictory beliefs of the two faiths. Both use the same bible to prove the truth of their contradictory beliefs. Catholics see the virgin Mary and are saved by saints, and born again Christians have a profound spiritual rebirth confirming that they are eternally saved.

Who is right? Both use the same bible as evidence, but logically both cannot be right. Both bet their hypothetical eternal souls on their beliefs. Clearly, their “evidence” proves nothing except what they want to be true. By the controlled, reliable, repeatable standards of science, their evidence is meaningless and says nothing about what is actually true.

267

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Hey ephrem you and Mak have probably done more for Christianity on this board than any of the rest of could do. I know this will continue as long as you see yourselves as poster boys for atheism.

God uses us all in different ways.

:)[/quote]

Thanks ZEB, if even one person realised that religious hatred is wrong due to what i, or another non-believer, said over the years; it’ll make me happy.
[/quote]

But you don’t say it’s wrong. You hate religion. Indeed, if anything’s clear from your posts, it’s that you hate religion. Your little twist is that you want everyone to hate all religions. [/quote]

Hate is a too strong a word. A “healthy dislike” describes my sentiments much better.
[/quote]

Well, you’re smart guy, and so is forlife and as the Bible says in

[b]Matthew 18:2-4 "

“He called a little child to him and places the child among them. And he said: 'Truly I tell you unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.”[/b]

This scripture is very difficult to accept. Letting go of what you think is correct and following God is not easy. But as I said God uses us all in different ways for his ultimate purpose. I assume that you are a young man. If so you have a long way to go and may change your mind.

God only knows.
[/quote]

This is how you sustain your delusions zeb; by ignoring facts. I’m 39. I’ve said this numerous times now, and if you want to be childlike and believe everything you’re told, be my guest.

[/quote]

People are living into their 80’s and 90’s. You think that at the age of 39 you will never have a change of opinion? Well, I have news for you my friend, you will! And if you never change one of your opinions then you’re not as smart as I thought you were.

268

[quote]forlife wrote:

Let’s pick an easy example for starters. Catholics use your evidence to support their claim to being god’s true church, and devoutly believe that people not baptized in their church will go to hell…[/quote]

Nope.

Huh?

Nope.

269

[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
forlife wrote:
Are you all that different from Ephrem? The only difference between you and him is that he hates one less religion than you do.

Only if you assume that no one is right. I’m betting with my eternal soul that I’m right. And you are betting with your eternal soul that I’m wrong. The good part is that someday we both get to find out who was right.

More accurately, you’re betting with your hypothetical eternal soul that your particular brand of religion is correct, and the thousands of other brands, including the other brands of Christianity, are false.[/quote]

You don’t even know enough about Christianity to know that it matters not what “brand” you practice which dictates whether or not you reach heaven?

You are twisting the truth again forlife, just like you know who does. I already gave you a short list of evidence which I looked at BEFORE I became a Christian. But you choose to not look at it, or even discuss it. Are things that black and white in your world? Or are you just trying to pull one more person away from God?

270

[quote]ZEB wrote:
People are living into their 80’s and 90’s. You think that at the age of 39 you will never have a change of opinion? Well, I have news for you my friend, you will! And if you never change one of your opinions then you’re not as smart as I thought you were.[/quote]

The subtext here is that if he doesn’t change his mind to suit YOUR worldview, he’s not as smart as you thought. You still seem hellbent on classifying everyone that disagrees with you as some young whippersnapper. Get over yourself.

271

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Hey ephrem you and Mak have probably done more for Christianity on this board than any of the rest of could do. I know this will continue as long as you see yourselves as poster boys for atheism.

God uses us all in different ways.

:)[/quote]

Thanks ZEB, if even one person realised that religious hatred is wrong due to what i, or another non-believer, said over the years; it’ll make me happy.
[/quote]

But you don’t say it’s wrong. You hate religion. Indeed, if anything’s clear from your posts, it’s that you hate religion. Your little twist is that you want everyone to hate all religions. [/quote]

Hate is a too strong a word. A “healthy dislike” describes my sentiments much better.
[/quote]

Well, you’re smart guy, and so is forlife and as the Bible says in

[b]Matthew 18:2-4 "

“He called a little child to him and places the child among them. And he said: 'Truly I tell you unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.”[/b]

This scripture is very difficult to accept. Letting go of what you think is correct and following God is not easy. But as I said God uses us all in different ways for his ultimate purpose. I assume that you are a young man. If so you have a long way to go and may change your mind.

God only knows.
[/quote]

This is how you sustain your delusions zeb; by ignoring facts. I’m 39. I’ve said this numerous times now, and if you want to be childlike and believe everything you’re told, be my guest.

[/quote]

He tries that line with everyone he debates, at some point. By portraying people who disagree as young, irresponsible males who still have a lot to learn from life, I think it makes him feel better about his opinions. After all, nobody that has lived as long as he has could possibly disagree with his world view :wink:

272

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Now, to answer forlife. In general, I don’t hate other religions. In fact, I can even respect their search. If anything I’m indifferent to them, most of the time. Unlike the atheist in doubt, I don’t bat an eye at what the Hindu, Buddhist, Jew, Jehovah Witness, or the Animist believes about my faith, or the destination of the soul upon death. I’m not into the whiny “No, I want more than peaceful toleration, you must recognize me as interchangeable with yourself and your faith. We must see each other like ice cream flavors at the local Baskin Robbins! You get strawberry, and I’ll get vanilla. Or I’ll get vanilla and you get strawberry, it doesn’t matter! Weeee!”[/quote]

Don’t you believe that millions of people from other faiths who are equally devout and equally convinced their religion is correct, will be damned to eternal suffering because they aren’t baptized into the catholic church? Or do you disagree with your church on that point?[/quote]

Yep. They don’t believe in my faith’s afterlife, nor I theirs. I find it’s the supposed atheist who is generally panicked over the ‘final destination’ others believe in. I lose no sleep over it. It being oblivion, hades, or some looping ressurection. [/quote]

If the belief that literally billions of people from other religions will have to suffer for eternity because they disagree with you isn’t hateful, I don’t know what is.

273

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Now, to answer forlife. In general, I don’t hate other religions. In fact, I can even respect their search. If anything I’m indifferent to them, most of the time. Unlike the atheist in doubt, I don’t bat an eye at what the Hindu, Buddhist, Jew, Jehovah Witness, or the Animist believes about my faith, or the destination of the soul upon death. I’m not into the whiny “No, I want more than peaceful toleration, you must recognize me as interchangeable with yourself and your faith. We must see each other like ice cream flavors at the local Baskin Robbins! You get strawberry, and I’ll get vanilla. Or I’ll get vanilla and you get strawberry, it doesn’t matter! Weeee!”[/quote]

Don’t you believe that millions of people from other faiths who are equally devout and equally convinced their religion is correct, will be damned to eternal suffering because they aren’t baptized into the catholic church? Or do you disagree with your church on that point?[/quote]

Yep. They don’t believe in my faith’s afterlife, nor I theirs. I find it’s the supposed atheist who is generally panicked over the ‘final destination’ others believe in. I lose no sleep over it. It being oblivion, hades, or some looping ressurection. [/quote]

If the belief that literally billions of people from other religions will have to suffer for eternity because they disagree with you isn’t hateful, I don’t know what is.[/quote]

Then you don’t know what is.

274

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

Let’s pick an easy example for starters. Catholics use your evidence to support their claim to being god’s true church, and devoutly believe that people not baptized in their church will go to hell…[/quote]

Nope.

Huh?

Nope.

[/quote]

Are you claiming the catholic church doesn’t believe in the necessity of baptism into their church for salvation, in the triune god, and in transubstantiation?

275

[quote]forlife wrote:

Your “evidence” is nothing more than a loose collection of writings by men, who could have had any number of reasons for the claims they made. More importantly, most other religions have similar writings, which they put forth as solid evidence for their own beliefs, which directly contradict your own. Logically, this “evidence” is unreliable because it leads people to contradictory conclusions.[/quote]

LOL, you’re laughing at one of the worlds great discoveries, the Dead Sea Scrolls…LOL. This only shows your lack of understanding. Those scrolls were accepted by virtually very Biblical scholar in the world. This only makes you look small minded.

[quote]Let’s pick an easy example for starters. Catholics use your evidence to support their claim to being god’s true church, and devoutly believe that people not baptized in their church will go to hell. Born again Christians use this same evidence to support their claim that Catholicism is an abomination. They don’t believe in a trinitarian supernatural being, but catholics insist that god, Jesus, and the holy spirit are part of the same being, which is without body, parts, or passions. Catholics believe the communion is literally transformed into the blood and body of Christ, and born again Christians view the sacrament as strictly symbolic.

These are core, contradictory beliefs of the two faiths. Both use the same bible to prove the truth of their contradictory beliefs. Catholics see the virgin Mary and are saved by saints, and born again Christians have a profound spiritual rebirth confirming that they are eternally saved.

Who is right? Both use the same bible as evidence, but logically both cannot be right. Both bet their hypothetical eternal souls on their beliefs. Clearly, their “evidence” proves nothing except what they want to be true. By the controlled, reliable, repeatable standards of science, their evidence is meaningless and says nothing about what is actually true.
[/quote]

First of all even Paul and Peter had major disagreements regarding doctrine - You don’t know this? It comes as no surprise that major religions could disagree on certain things. But where you’re wrong is that doctrine does NOT determine where you spend eternity. Our differences are not nearly as important as this similarity: We all believe that Jesus Christ (the son of God) was born and died for our sins. We accept this and we give him thanks and praise. Being a man who has no God but the flesh you don’t understand this and that will ultimately be your undoing.

276

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

Let’s pick an easy example for starters. Catholics use your evidence to support their claim to being god’s true church, and devoutly believe that people not baptized in their church will go to hell…[/quote]

Nope.

Huh?

Nope.

[/quote]

Are you claiming the catholic church doesn’t believe in the necessity of baptism into their church for salvation, in the triune god, and in transubstantiation?[/quote]

Baptism is a sacrament which is valid inside or outside of the Church. Where is the supposed difference of believing in a triune God? It’s a common tenent regardless of denomination. I didn’t respond about transubstantiation.

277

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
forlife wrote:
Are you all that different from Ephrem? The only difference between you and him is that he hates one less religion than you do.

Only if you assume that no one is right. I’m betting with my eternal soul that I’m right. And you are betting with your eternal soul that I’m wrong. The good part is that someday we both get to find out who was right.

More accurately, you’re betting with your hypothetical eternal soul that your particular brand of religion is correct, and the thousands of other brands, including the other brands of Christianity, are false.[/quote]

You don’t even know enough about Christianity to know that it matters not what “brand” you practice which dictates whether or not you reach heaven?

You are twisting the truth again forlife, just like you know who does. I already gave you a short list of evidence which I looked at BEFORE I became a Christian. But you choose to not look at it, or even discuss it. Are things that black and white in your world? Or are you just trying to pull one more person away from God?
[/quote]

Sounds like you need to educate yourself on the various Christian faiths. Are you seriously ignorant of the claims from many Christian faiths that people must share their particular beliefs, which are contradicted by the beliefs of other Christian faiths, in order to be saved?

278

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
People are living into their 80’s and 90’s. You think that at the age of 39 you will never have a change of opinion? Well, I have news for you my friend, you will! And if you never change one of your opinions then you’re not as smart as I thought you were.[/quote]

The subtext here is that if he doesn’t change his mind to suit YOUR worldview, he’s not as smart as you thought. You still seem hellbent on classifying everyone that disagrees with you as some young whippersnapper. Get over yourself.[/quote]

I don’t know how you live. But, where I come from one sign of intelligence is being able to form a different opinion as new information enters yours realm. Now I know that’s not how you operate. But others smarter than you, which would include me, him, and just about everyone else on this board do operate that way.

Run along now, go find a funny new cartoon to post. GOOD BOY (pats head) - Go on now…

279

[quote]forlife wrote:

If the belief that literally billions of people from other religions will have to suffer for eternity because they disagree with you isn’t hateful, I don’t know what is.[/quote]

He didn’t say it the Bible says it. But keep twisting things, that is what you do best.

280

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
forlife wrote:
Are you all that different from Ephrem? The only difference between you and him is that he hates one less religion than you do.

Only if you assume that no one is right. I’m betting with my eternal soul that I’m right. And you are betting with your eternal soul that I’m wrong. The good part is that someday we both get to find out who was right.

More accurately, you’re betting with your hypothetical eternal soul that your particular brand of religion is correct, and the thousands of other brands, including the other brands of Christianity, are false.[/quote]

You don’t even know enough about Christianity to know that it matters not what “brand” you practice which dictates whether or not you reach heaven?

You are twisting the truth again forlife, just like you know who does. I already gave you a short list of evidence which I looked at BEFORE I became a Christian. But you choose to not look at it, or even discuss it. Are things that black and white in your world? Or are you just trying to pull one more person away from God?
[/quote]

Sounds like you need to educate yourself on the various Christian faiths.[/quote]

You think so? I’m not the one who said that the Catholics think Mary can save them and send them to heaven. LOL, you goof.