[quote]forlife wrote:
No prob. I believe good and evil exist according to my human value system[/quote]
Right, and I believe God exists too, according to my “human value system.”
Believing god exists isn’t a value…it is a factual statement about the nature and origin of the universe.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Believing god exists isn’t a value…it is a factual statement about the nature and origin of the universe.[/quote]
You claimed your morality exists according to your feelings and personal opinion (human value system). What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
Believing god exists isn’t a value…it is a factual statement about the nature and origin of the universe.[/quote]
You claimed your morality exists according to your feelings and personal opinion (human value system). What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
[/quote]
Nope. I’m making no claims about the actual facts of the universe…but you are.
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
Believing god exists isn’t a value…it is a factual statement about the nature and origin of the universe.[/quote]
You claimed your morality exists according to your feelings and personal opinion (human value system). What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
[/quote]
Nope. I’m making no claims about the actual facts of the universe…but you are.[/quote]
Of course you are, you’re claiming your moral system exists.
Unless of course you’re prepared to say that you FEEL bad about rape, but KNOW that it isn’t evil/immoral. Good luck building a society on such a philosophy, by the way.
[quote]forlife wrote:
No prob. I believe good and evil exist according to my human value system, but I don’t think the universe cares much either way.[/quote]
Your response reminds of this poem:
A man said to the universe:
“Sir I exist!”
“However,” replied the universe,
“The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation.”
– Stephen Crane
I feel there’s a lot of truth in the poem.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
Believing god exists isn’t a value…it is a factual statement about the nature and origin of the universe.[/quote]
You claimed your morality exists according to your feelings and personal opinion (human value system). What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
[/quote]
Nope. I’m making no claims about the actual facts of the universe…but you are.[/quote]
Of course you are, you’re claiming your moral system exists. [/quote]
My moral system only exists in my head. Are you similarly willing to admit that your god only exists in your head?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Unless of course you’re prepared to say that you FEEL bad about rape, but KNOW that it isn’t evil/immoral. Good luck building a society on such a philosophy, by the way.[/quote]
It’s called civil law.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
No prob. I believe good and evil exist according to my human value system, but I don’t think the universe cares much either way.[/quote]
Your response reminds of this poem:
A man said to the universe:
“Sir I exist!”
“However,” replied the universe,
“The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation.”
– Stephen Crane
I feel there’s a lot of truth in the poem.
[/quote]
I agree. Our hubris makes us think the universe revolves around us, while the truth is the other way around.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
It’s funny how the atheists stepped up and finally demonstrated they have no morality. Their argument is that we shouldn’t describe or declare anything evil so that there won’t be evil.
[/quote]
No it isn’t. I’m not denying evil exists. I’m playing off your claim that God created everything in the heaven and the earth. That includes evil.
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
Believing god exists isn’t a value…it is a factual statement about the nature and origin of the universe.[/quote]
You claimed your morality exists according to your feelings and personal opinion (human value system). What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
[/quote]
Nope. I’m making no claims about the actual facts of the universe…but you are.[/quote]
Of course you are, you’re claiming your moral system exists. [/quote]
My moral system only exists in my head. Are you similarly willing to admit that your god only exists in your head?[/quote]
Nope. That’s not my philosophy, it’s yours. But now that we know morality only exists in your head, you can’t expect us to acknowledge your claim to having morality.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
You’re now responsible for creating and maintaing the evil of his acts. [/quote]
He didn’t create everything. God did that. God is responsible.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
God from all eternity did render the dawn, existence and progress of evil utterly and unavoidably certain whilst remaining entirely free from it’s production, guilt or the temptation thereunto.
[/quote]
Nothing existed before God, then He created everything. Including evil.[/quote]
Thanks for clearing that up for me.[/quote]
Clear it up for you? People like you are the ones who opened my eyes to this truth!
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
It’s funny how the atheists stepped up and finally demonstrated they have no morality. Their argument is that we shouldn’t describe or declare anything evil so that there won’t be evil.
[/quote]
No it isn’t. I’m not denying evil exists. I’m playing off your claim that God created everything in the heaven and the earth. That includes evil.[/quote]
By even defining ‘evil,’ you too are now responsible for creating/maintaing ‘evil.’ Unless you’re saying ‘evil’ exists prior and regardless of your (or Stalin’s) definition of evil. But then you’d have opened up a can of worms for yourself.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
You’re now responsible for creating and maintaing the evil of his acts. [/quote]
He didn’t create everything. God did that. God is responsible.[/quote]
So, you believe in moral laws (good and evil), independent of differences in human opinion and feeling?
Edited
This tread is a clusterfuck from hell. Whats the topic really? is it about if god exist or not? Or is it about the origins of morals and ethics?
[quote]florelius wrote:
This tread is a clusterfuck from hell. Whats the topic really? is it about if god exist or not? Or is it about the origins of morals and ethics? [/quote]
Don’t try to change the subject…
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
This tread is a clusterfuck from hell. Whats the topic really? is it about if god exist or not? Or is it about the origins of morals and ethics? [/quote]
Don’t try to change the subject…[/quote]
then explain to me what the subject is? I have read this entire tread and no clear subject stands out.
So I would be gratefull if you pointed out for me what the topic is and I can chip in if I have any thougts
on the matter and if I dont, I want bother.
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
This tread is a clusterfuck from hell. Whats the topic really? is it about if god exist or not? Or is it about the origins of morals and ethics? [/quote]
Don’t try to change the subject…[/quote]
then explain to me what the subject is? I have read this entire tread and no clear subject stands out.
So I would be gratefull if you pointed out for me what the topic is and I can chip in if I have any thougts
on the matter and if I dont, I want bother.
[/quote]
No. I see what you’re attempting. You’re trying to change the subject by making the subject about the subject we’re supposed to be debating in this thread.