[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
I thought about adding this to the thread that Pat started on modern-day atheism, But I thought maybe this should have it’s own thread instead of being drowned out in that conversation.
I’m really interested in hearing everybody’s perspective on this, and what your thoughts are on what he has to say about his vision of “modern atheism”. It’s an interesting perspective I think on what contributions religion makes in this world. This is definitely NOT the militant atheism of Dawkins.
Anyways, it’s only a 20 minute TED talk, and worth your investment of time methinks.
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Well, I don’t necessarily agree with his ideas on what religious people believe, but I agree the mechanisms utilized by religions are effective.
What I find interesting is that he is presupposing, or proposing the idea that the secular life has gaps I.E., this dogmatic hardcore atheism proposed by the likes of Dawkins and Harris and have been very popular amongst the secular also causes problems in that a full scale rejection also leaves empty some parts of life. And that if you choose this hardcore attitude that you isolate yourself from some of the ancillary richnesses that the religious enjoy.
It’s an interesting admission. That a hardcore secularism leaves emptiness in some areas even if the academic propositions are fulfilling. Now I say ‘hard core’ meaning the utter rejection of anything that could even be construed as religious. Which I don’t necessarily believe most save for the most militant hold fast to.
But that secularism has gaps and an emptiness and his idea almost that it’s unfair that religious people get to enjoy these things to the exclusion of the atheist.
I can see where an individual can benefit from what he says and can have a fuller more colorful life by employing some of the mechanisms and values that are typically associated with religion, in their own lives.
But he speaks of community, repeating messages and sort of employing a religious style in transfer of information, in ‘getting the word out’. My question about this, is to what end? What sort of community are you looking for? What is the message? If atheism isn’t to be a religion and is a belief in nothing, I.E. no God, or anything of the sort, what information are you repeating? What are you getting the word out about?
Also, a community of what? A community of absence of belief?
I certainly don’t have an issue with a person seeking a more fulfilling life, but the communal thing and the ‘getting the word’ out thing is confusing.
Secondly, do you find things in the secular life that are lacking and is that why you are interested in this sort of atheism 2.0?
It’s a bit more polite, but no less arrogant and dismissive of believers. It’s interesting that he finds these good things with in religion, but still considers an exchange of ideas with religious beneath him, like talk physics with a dog.
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Hardcore secularism doesn’t have to leave these things out. Sam Harris has extensive experience in Buddhist meditation and says it has a lot to offer.
The message is the wonder of reality.
We have our TED talks, and other such things. Maybe in time there will be secular rituals that develop, maybe even secular holidays. But how long did religious rituals and holidays take to develop? Hundreds and thousands of years. Their roots probably go back tens of thousands of years.
I think the idea that secular people have less full lives is laughable. What I get from understanding the true nature of the universe can pretty much be described as transcendance, and I don’t see religious people having experiences anything like that in the context of their place in the natural world. It’s remarkable to look up at the night sky and understand it, or to watch a documentary and have your mind expanded by a new realization about how the universe truly works.
Emptiness? No. I feel more alive now than when I was a Christian. It’s easier to think atheists have empty lives, but many of us who have been in both camps feel the opposite way.
