Hey Cortes,
I think my ability to send PMs may be blocked, I did however read your message. I will post my comments here:
Wow. Thanks for sharing and being so brutally honest. I’m a little taken aback.
You did interpret my post correctly, it was meant to be nothing more than a light hearted joke.
[quote]mcdugga wrote:
Hey, JB. First, I’d like to add my thanks for starting this thread. It’s nice to have an ongoing Q & A with a Jew who’s well-educated in the faith.
[/quote]
Well educated? Wow, I need to direct Mrs. Jewbacca to this post! She considers me a near heathen!
This is a lot more common situation than you would think. There are lots of Jewish children who were adopted by good Christian families to save them from the Nazis, for example. There were lots of effectively-forced conversion by the Roman Catholic Church. Mixed marriages produce lots of Jewish children with no faith of any kind.
There is actually a Yiddish word for this sort of thing, essentially “kinapped” children.
And no, just like with a real kidnapping, a Jewish child brought up by his parents (natural or adopted) is not responsible for his or her situation and G-d will take that into account.
Of course, it’s like an eagle adopted by a family of bears — or even a family of eagles who has decided to lives as bears.
Sure the eagle might walk around, learn to growl, and generally act as a bear, but it’s still an eagle.
A Jew is a always a Jew. He or she could “convert” to Christianity or “become” Buddhists, but he or she is still Jewish.
So, what is expected of the Jewish child who grows up Buddist (or Muslim or Scientologist or nothing)? Well, he or she should strive to embrace his faith.
That’s a difficult thing, especially if he or she believes the tenants of the faith introduced by the parents. So difficult, few can make that change.
Me, I don’t pretent to know G-d’s mind. I do know He loves you, that’s He’s wise, kind, and wants what is best for you.
So I guess what is expected is to try.
Obviously, like the eagle raised by bears, you are not going to know how to fly. Yet.
Yes, he would be bound by the Covenent of Mt. Sinai. All 613.
[quote]
Must he return to Judaism before he can inherit the world to come?[/quote]
I am not remotely capable of answering that question. Indeed, I wouldn’t think the opinion of any man would matter, as we are not the judge, are we?
My opinion, however, is not only “no,” but heck no. G-d is a shockingly cool god. He fully understands that type of situation. A child, even when grown to an adult, almost always follows the faith of their family.
I would, however, try. Pray. Learn about Judaism. (Go to a Chabad centre; bringing Jewish people back to Judaism is where they shine. They are completely OK with you not knowing anything.)
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
Secularly, Hitler would have fried your ass (or at least sent you to a work camp) for being a half-Jew, and the modern state of Israel would likely accept you as an immigrant for that reason.[/quote]
The former I knew, the latter, I had not thought about until just now. It’s good to know, as I would like to have some options available to me if the Japanese succeed in melding the weird, uncertain alliance between the useful idiot peaceniks and the hyperxenophobic nationalists and manage to actually get America to leave Okinawa and her other bases here. I’m sure that the leaders of a certain homogenetically named populous just to the northwest of me are slavering at the thought.
[/quote]
Get you paperwork together now. Do things like photograph graves, etc. Your father’s Bris and Bar Mitzvah stuff is key.
Put in your “need to fu—g run” file.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Just finished reading “The Fight For Jerusalem” and have gotten more interested in the Jewish faith. Where would you recommend starting? I have read the old testament several times, and am pretty familiar with it already.[/quote]
To answer your question, are you Jewish and not schooled, or not Jewish?[/quote]
Not Jewish.[/quote]
As a Gentile, I would recommend getting to understand your duties to G-d as a Gentile first.
Here:
FWIW, the Rambam (arguably the most respected Rabbi since the Diaspora), while he disagreed with key theological points of Christianity, considered Christianity to be a fine, ethical, and moral Noahadic religion.[/quote]
Further along this line. I understand there the rules that should apply, but that really leaves questions unanswered. I’m assuming that a gentile should still believe in the god of Abraham. Rules are fine, but what exactly are the proper beliefs of a gentile according to the Jewish faith? You mention Christianity is fine with some theological reservations, but what is the proper Jewish theology for a gentile? To essentially believe in everything in the Jewish religion, worship the Jewish god, but not be bound by the same rules?
Is it just about having an option?
Why would anyone want to live in the Middle East when they can live in the United States?
I can understand if you’re Jewish, but since you’re not, why put your family at risk from suicide and car bombings and other attacks?
The US with all of it’s faults, is still one of the best countries to live in.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Is it just about having an option?
Why would anyone want to live in the Middle East when they can live in the United States? [/quote]
Cortes lives in Japan.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Is it just about having an option?
Why would anyone want to live in the Middle East when they can live in the United States? [/quote]
Cortes lives in Japan. [/quote]
I know. Read the thread.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Is it just about having an option?
Why would anyone want to live in the Middle East when they can live in the United States? [/quote]
Cortes lives in Japan. [/quote]
I know. Read the thread.[/quote]
I did.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
…
There is not enough time in one lifetime to make it even partway through my must-read list, but those two authors shot right to the top of it like no one else has for years.
[/quote]
Well, then, you recall one of my favorite passages from Pirke Avot:
“It is not incumbent upon you to finish the work, but you can not avoid commencing it.”
(verse 2:16)
See? You have already started it.
Of course returning to the US would be my first choice. I’ve had a few experiences over the past few years, however, that have taught me that, no matter how safe and settled you think you are, you really can never, ever be too prepared.
I might be bold in assuming, but I’d bet there are more than a few Jews who would agree with me.
@raj: Regarding the PM, thanks for the acknowledgment.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Of course returning to the US would be my first choice. I’ve had a few experiences over the past few years, however, that have taught me that, no matter how safe and settled you think you are, you really can never, ever be too prepared.
I might be bold in assuming, but I’d bet there are more than a few Jews who would agree with me.
[/quote]
Unfortunately too few others are somewhat prepared.
People tend to smile when people who have numbers tattooed on their arm tend to have a small fortune in gold and diamonds stashed away somewhere.
I dont find that entertaining.
I find that this is something to shamelessly copy.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Of course returning to the US would be my first choice. I’ve had a few experiences over the past few years, however, that have taught me that, no matter how safe and settled you think you are, you really can never, ever be too prepared.
I might be bold in assuming, but I’d bet there are more than a few Jews who would agree with me.
[/quote]
Unfortunately too few others are somewhat prepared.
People tend to smile when people who have numbers tattooed on their arm tend to have a small fortune in gold and diamonds stashed away somewhere.
I dont find that entertaining.
I find that this is something to shamelessly copy.
[/quote]
Unless there is a Mag 9 earthquake followed by tsunami that rips away the first kilometer of inland.
Sort of heh.
Luckily for a lot of those folks, this happened where it did.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Of course returning to the US would be my first choice. I’ve had a few experiences over the past few years, however, that have taught me that, no matter how safe and settled you think you are, you really can never, ever be too prepared.
I might be bold in assuming, but I’d bet there are more than a few Jews who would agree with me.
[/quote]
Unfortunately too few others are somewhat prepared.
People tend to smile when people who have numbers tattooed on their arm tend to have a small fortune in gold and diamonds stashed away somewhere.
I dont find that entertaining.
I find that this is something to shamelessly copy.
[/quote]
Unless there is a Mag 9 earthquake followed by tsunami that rips away the first kilometer of inland.
Sort of heh.
Luckily for a lot of those folks, this happened where it did.
[/quote]
Weeeellll… I would not have done that.
Never ever.
Anyhow, a sober look at human history should be enough for everyone to be convinced that freedom and security are fragile, fragile situations.
The question is not if but when.
I mean, given back the safe.
Keeping wallets is cheap.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Of course returning to the US would be my first choice. I’ve had a few experiences over the past few years, however, that have taught me that, no matter how safe and settled you think you are, you really can never, ever be too prepared.
I might be bold in assuming, but I’d bet there are more than a few Jews who would agree with me.
@raj: Regarding the PM, thanks for the acknowledgment.[/quote]
I think anyone that has ever lived would agree with you.
Happy Shabbat, Jewbacca.
Wanted to let you know I really appreciate you taking the time to answer these questions. Working on a few of my own. By the way, do you know Gerald Schroeder personally? I have read all his books and used to teach a class on his work at the Seventh Day Adventist Church (lots of friends who are members there expressed an interest).
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Further along this line. I understand there the rules that should apply, but that really leaves questions unanswered. I’m assuming that a gentile should still believe in the G-d of Abraham.
[/quote]
Correct.
Well, rule no. 1 (for everyone) is worship of HaShem (the G-d of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob) and (related thereto), the lack of idolotry (e.g., pagan idols, witchcraft, etc). Judaism does not pretend that Jewish folk are the only people to have received guidance from G-d. To the contrary, Judaism recognizes in its own scriptures that G-d revealed himself to many different peoples.
So, in short, the “correct” practive would be the practice dictated to that people, which (in whatever form it takes), if a true revelation, will be consistent with the Laws of Noah.
That said, Chabad in the USA sends “seeker” Gentiles (who are not seeking to convert) to various of the Noahadic organizations that are springing up.
Me, I have mixed feelings about that, as it almost seems like a new religion is being made.
[quote]
You mention Christianity is fine with some theological reservations, but what is the proper Jewish theology for a gentile? To essentially believe in everything in the Jewish religion, worship the Jewish god, but not be bound by the same rules?[/quote]
See above. Christianity has a special place in Jewish thought, in that (especially now with ready access to good translations) Christians accept the “Old” Testament to by 100% true and correct. This is unique among other religions — for example, Islam says the Bible is true, but corrupted and full of mistakes, so it must be disregarded.
This shared acceptance of the Torah is huge, and even the most embittered among us, recognize this commonality; in fact, Jewish people are typically taught to not discuss theology with others, but RamBam made an exception for Christians because they (generally) truely love G-d and seek to follow Him.
And, again, Christianity hits all the Laws of Noah just fine.
The adoption of Rabbi Hillel’s summary of the Law as “Love the L-rd they G-d with all they heart . . . .and love thy neighbor as thyself” by Christianity’s founder is a 100% correct summary of the Laws of Mt. Sinai and Moses.
So, in short, there is a huge shared commonality.
I think the big problem (other than the obvious theological ones) stem from the fact that Christians have been the single largest persecutor of Jewish people for the better part of 2,000 years. That’s a pretty shitty track record.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Is it just about having an option?
Why would anyone want to live in the Middle East when they can live in the United States? [/quote]
The wheels will fall off the bus here; they always do.
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Happy Shabbat, Jewbacca.
Wanted to let you know I really appreciate you taking the time to answer these questions. Working on a few of my own. By the way, do you know Gerald Schroeder personally? I have read all his books and used to teach a class on his work at the Seventh Day Adventist Church (lots of friends who are members there expressed an interest).[/quote]
Thank you; I am a work-a-holic, and without a forced day of peace each week I’d have been dead of a heart attack long ago.
“Know” is a pretty strong word for Gerald. He knows me by name, or would with prompting by his wife.