Article: Equal Marriage=Less Sex

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

Just turned 28 and was recently promoted to Manager at her Regional Accounting
firm. [/quote]

That whole preverbal “biological clock” thing isn’t fake man. It is 100% real, and I would imagine your irritation to her stress reaction is, at least, in part ot a biological response of “if you can’t handle this, how are you going to be able to handle offspring.”
[/quote]

Certainly wise beyond your years. That exact thought has crossed my mind multiple times.
[/quote]

I’m about to make a bunch of assumptions but here goes:

My daughter’s pediatrician diagnosed me with the “HD” part of ADHD in about 35 mins during her last appointment. And told us she is likely following in my footsteps.

Your chick sounds like me, although I’ve come to be able to control my hyper-sensitivity to stress. (I can get into that more if you’d like.)

So that being said, I would imagine this is a typical conversation your woman has in her head:

“Oh boy, I am tired. Probably because you lay awake at night wide awake in bed. Why can’t I be this tired at night, and that awake in the morning? What is the weather like today? Is the outfit I picked last night still appropriate? God damn Jonny can’t even roll cash, and they stick me with him on this job. Bobby Bossman is riding me on my time budgets. I wonder if the weather is going to make my hair look like shit. Ugh, traffic is going to be horrid this morning if it rains. Why doesn’t that payroll section reconcile? COuld it be the I deductions. I wonder if Pam is okay, she was very upset with Tony last night. Too bad they are a really nice couple. STupid Bobby never should have yelled at me about the stupid AR section, I missed a tiny mistake, that is why we have the review process, I’m only human. Ugh, my boobs aren’t as nice as they used to be, but if I get a boob job everyone will know and think I’m slut. I really dont’ want to shave today. I how Jonny has his shit together today, I need him to wrap his section, I swear if he is hung over. Maybe we should have steak tonight rather than chicken, and I can get a nice bottle of wine. Maybe if I skip breakfast I won’t look fat in my pants. OMG I forgot to go to CVS and get new foundation. I wonder if Bobby feels like a dick for ripping into Jonny? HOLY SHIT I HAVE A GRAY PUBIC HAIR!!! WTF!”

And that is just the trip from bed to the shower. Imagine how it goes during an hour commute in stop and go traffic…[/quote]

That is literally what I walk in the door to every single day. I am exhausted, just getting in from work and the gym, want to shower and decompress and she starts as soon as I hit the door, then proceeds to get offended if I try to leave the room before the 2 hour long spill is up. It has gotten to the point where I cannot really go walking with her anymore (she loves to take long walks), because I am so keyed up when we get back I fill like I am about to have a stroke. I look at her and she was like that was an awesome talk, glad he sympathizes with me. All this shit that bothers her is so minute, her inability to process, pack away and move on astounds me. It literally takes me about 1 hr or mindless silence to totally forget about everything wrong with the world and I don’t need 3 hrs of discussion where she gets irritated if I don’t show the same level of outrage as her. I finally told her one day when she asked me why wasn’t I upset about something her or my mother had done (they are usually interchangeable annoyances in her life), that the only way I could get as uptight about something as that would be if they set my house on fire. It is almost like she just enjoys the drama so she creates it where there really isn’t any.
[/quote]

Doesn’t it just kill you inside?

And it’s not like you don’t love her or enjoy spending time with her or not find her attractive.

How have you been dealing with it? Do you find it’s hampering your sexual desires towards her?

42

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
That is literally what I walk in the door to every single day.
[/quote]

Doesn’t it just kill you inside?

[/quote]

As frustrating as it is, I would bet a mortgage payment there are plenty of things she isn’t spilling her guts to you guys about. Particularly those deep rooted insecurities most of us have, but likely haunt her thoughts and ambitions to the point of near obsession.

The other thing I recommend is learning the art of selectively listening. And joke about it when you get caught.

It is another cliché, but it has saved enough marriages that I can’t even imagine. If she is talking about mundane bullshit, listen with mundane bullshit effort. If it is important, listen with important effort.

43

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Doesn’t it just kill you inside?

And it’s not like you don’t love her or enjoy spending time with her or not find her attractive.

How have you been dealing with it? Do you find it’s hampering your sexual desires towards her?
[/quote]

Well right now she is pregnant so the velvet gloves have to come out with every comment. Right now, I try to dodge walking with her, although some of our neighbors dogs scare her so if I don’t go a lot of times she doesn’t and that’s no good either. I am the worst communicator ever so I am a bad one to ask. My ability to quickly process and flush stress helps me out a lot here. I just sit there nod and say uh-huh a lot. But it does make me dread certain aspects of my day that I probably shouldn’t (ie going for a walk or first walking through the door to my wife).

Days when it is particularly bad, yeah it does effect my desire for her, specifically if there is little time between the venting on her end and the getting in the mood. surprisingly, after she vents she is actually in the mood fairly frequently, go figure. Angry sex usually follows (I don’t think she realizes its angry, think she just thinks its rough) as I take out all that hostility she just filled me with. Occasionally, I just cant and tell her I am not in the mood. I probably need to discuss this with her one day but probably wont.

44

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
That is literally what I walk in the door to every single day.
[/quote]

Doesn’t it just kill you inside?

[/quote]

As frustrating as it is, I would bet a mortgage payment there are plenty of things she isn’t spilling her guts to you guys about. Particularly those deep rooted insecurities most of us have, but likely haunt her thoughts and ambitions to the point of near obsession.

The other thing I recommend is learning the art of selectively listening. And joke about it when you get caught.

It is another clichÃ?©, but it has saved enough marriages that I can’t even imagine. If she is talking about mundane bullshit, listen with mundane bullshit effort. If it is important, listen with important effort. [/quote]

As I said, I wasn’t much help but the bullshit effort is pretty much my M.O. Then she starts to pick up on it when I accidentally say “yeah” while she’s mid-sentence. My wife is big on eye-contact during a conversation so the low effort listening gets me into trouble, then she will gripe about that, I will actually listen for a little while and wish I hadn’t ha. It is what it is, annoying yes, major deal for me, not really.

45

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
In retrospect, I think it was all just my normal biology when not under the influence of the pill. Like your wife, when I went off of them for good when I was 33, it was like a switch was flipped. I wish someone had warned me. My husband was in his twenties and early thirties during that time. Not good.

[/quote]

My wife’s issues weren’t just sex drive, but overall attitude as well. She’s just a much happier and nicer person off it.

Funny about the last part. I’ve had similar thoughts and issues as the man on that side of the situation…

46

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
That is literally what I walk in the door to every single day. I am exhausted, just getting in from work and the gym, want to shower and decompress and she starts as soon as I hit the door, then proceeds to get offended if I try to leave the room before the 2 hour long spill is up.
[/quote]

I have always had to explain to the women in my life that there is limit to my ability to listen. Once I am at the saturation point; that’s it, I’m done. I propose two approaches and am fine with whichever they prefer. #1: I can let them know when I’ve reached saturation and the conversation will end. #2: They may continue speaking beyond the saturation point and I will casually continue to listen until they are done. If #2 is chosen and I receive grief for not remembering something that was said during one of the extended discussions, the the #1 approach is adopted. I’m not being harsh, just honest.

47

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
That is literally what I walk in the door to every single day. I am exhausted, just getting in from work and the gym, want to shower and decompress and she starts as soon as I hit the door, then proceeds to get offended if I try to leave the room before the 2 hour long spill is up.
[/quote]

I have always had to explain to the women in my life that there is limit to my ability to listen. Once I am at the saturation point; that’s it, I’m done. I propose two approaches and am fine with whichever they prefer. #1: I can let them know when I’ve reached saturation and the conversation will end. #2: They may continue speaking beyond the saturation point and I will casually continue to listen until they are done. If #2 is chosen and I receive grief for not remembering something that was said during one of the extended discussions, the the #1 approach is adopted. I’m not being harsh, just honest. [/quote]

This is what I’m saying, lol.

But you have to be able to communicate this verbally or non. Most women will understand this in my experience.

51

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Doesn’t it just kill you inside?

And it’s not like you don’t love her or enjoy spending time with her or not find her attractive.

How have you been dealing with it? Do you find it’s hampering your sexual desires towards her?
[/quote]

Well right now she is pregnant so the velvet gloves have to come out with every comment. Right now, I try to dodge walking with her, although some of our neighbors dogs scare her so if I don’t go a lot of times she doesn’t and that’s no good either. I am the worst communicator ever so I am a bad one to ask. My ability to quickly process and flush stress helps me out a lot here. I just sit there nod and say uh-huh a lot. But it does make me dread certain aspects of my day that I probably shouldn’t (ie going for a walk or first walking through the door to my wife).

Days when it is particularly bad, yeah it does effect my desire for her, specifically if there is little time between the venting on her end and the getting in the mood. surprisingly, after she vents she is actually in the mood fairly frequently, go figure. Angry sex usually follows (I don’t think she realizes its angry, think she just thinks its rough) as I take out all that hostility she just filled me with. Occasionally, I just cant and tell her I am not in the mood. I probably need to discuss this with her one day but probably wont. [/quote]

She’s conditioning you to dread coming home, and to avoid talking to her because she hits you with all the stress, problems, complaints, worry, and random bitching as soon as you hit the door?

Laura Schlessinger wrote The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands and it covers this pretty well.

Home should be a refuge where you want to be, and your spouse should be a comfort your look forward to being around, not someone who is draining your positive mojo.

My husband might want to know that our fourth grader is having trouble with fractions, but he doesn’t want to hear the play by play of every single little thing going on with the kids. He’s really good at dealing with problems he can solve, not so good at listening to me vent about things he has no control over. Mostly, he’s happy when he knows the kids and I are happy, and I’m handling stuff so he doesn’t have to worry about it. :slight_smile:

On the flip side, I wouldn’t want him to come home from work everyday and unload every detail. His work is like a foreign language to me, and I don’t understand what the hell he’s talking about so I can listen, but I have no helpful advice. He very, very rarely unloads that stuff other than to briefly summarize so I know why he has to work late, etc…

Maybe tell her it’s your goal to focus on the positive and not weigh her down with all the extraneous details and minutia of your job. You are going to try to focus on things you’re grateful for. Ask her if she’ll help you do that. Hopefully she’ll get the hint and try to change some of the negativity that’s just adding stress. Bitching and complaining. When she starts on the rant, ask her what was good about today. Praise her for being the kind of woman who doesn’t complain about everything, gossip or talk shit about people, and who is your soft place to come home to. Tell her you’re glad she’s such a happy and positive person. Hopefully, she’ll try harder to be that.

52

jbpick86, I’ll throw my 2 cents in here because much of what you said really resonated with me.

I see a lot of good things. You are sincerely trying to be a good partner, your spouse really seems to value her time spent talking (you mentioned she’s quickly in the mood after she vents), and you’re helping her by acting as her sounding board. Unfortunately, this is taking a toll on you.

It seems to me that the underlying issue isn’t her ranting, but instead your lack of proper emotional boundaries. Ideally, you would be able to actively listen to her rant about her day without feeling like you just went 12 rounds with Tyson. This is a skill that’s developed - professional therapists do it all the time - and it’s not easy. It involves being able to actively listen while being emotionally present and also limiting the emotional impact of the rant on yourself.

Someone mentioned tuning out, that’s one way but it doesn’t bring you closer to your spouse. Instead, it’s a way of distancing them in order to protect yourself. Unfortunately, I don’t have a solution for you in 3 easy steps, but I can tell you there are thousands upon thousands of people in the same situation as you. You can find books that deal with building stronger boundaries, many of them will be geared towards codependents. I’m not saying you’re codependent, just that you share some of the same challenges.

I had a similar issue with my current GF. We would have 3 hour marathon sessions on Saturday about all that was wrong in her life, then another couple hours on Sunday as she processed everything she put out there. Honestly, I could not see myself staying with her any longer if it continued. So, I told her (gently and with compassion) that her constant need to unload on me was changing the way I viewed our relationship. I told her I loved her but that I was not interested in having a therapist/client relationship with her. I explained her constant rants were affecting my desire for her and I missed relating to her as a man does a woman. I was looking for a partner, not someone who I could act as caretaker for.

I really expected things to blow up after that, but she took it very well. I think she was in a cycle of negativity and needed someone to right her ship, so to speak.

So, my advice to you is to let her know how you’re feeling (in a loving and compassionate way), but also point out the effect her rants are having on you. She may be disappointed, but those are her feelings and you’re not responsible for them. Actually, by not sharing the way you feel with her, you’re not being honest with her and you’re denying her the closeness she wants by not being authentic.

Lastly, in a more general sense, we seem to be under this impression that being in love with someone means meeting their every need, when that’s clearly impossible. It will take a toll on both parties after a while. Showing your love for someone shouldn’t come at the expense of your mental health. She needs to know that there are limits to what you’re able to listen to and that this isn’t a threat to the relationship, but instead is healthier for both of you.

53

[quote]pushharder wrote:

Oh me, oh my, over the years here on TN and elsewhere have I ever advocated that a wife who struggles to understand her husband’s (vigorous) sex drive take a little exogenous testosterone just for a little while so that she gets a small glimpse into the world of sexual urges of a man.

Women really really really have no clue. About this.[/quote]

I’ve often had this very thought.

I pointed out to my GF that her testosterone levels are nearly identical to my 11 year old, pre-pubescent sons levels.

If a woman were to experience the intensity of a man’s sex drive for one day, she would never allow herself to be alone with a man who wasn’t her husband, father, or brother ever again.

I don’t remember where, but I read a story by a 70 year old man whose libido had recently significantly decreased. He said he missed the sex, but felt as though he had been strapped to an idiot for the last 60 years.

54

Few things I will try to address from both Puff and Doc:

I probably should clarify that I don’t actually dread being at home, just the opening onslaught that initially hits when she begins to unload about her day, which is right when I walk through the door. Not sure if I made that clear.

In some ways I do feel some responsibility to listen to her and fill the role that a close friend would normally because I moved her 2 hrs away from her inner circle to my home town and she hasn’t really made those connections here. Part of me is aware that lacking that has altered the way we communicate and increased her need for conversation with me. I have that in a couple close friends and my dad who I will frequently share a cup of coffee with in the morning as we joke about how dumb people at our jobs are (this suffices for my vent).

There has been a tremendous amount for her to process over the past couple years. We tried for a year to have a child with no success which caused her tremendous guilt despite my assurances, found out she had stage 2 endometriosis that required surgery, now she’s pregnant and due in July. All that on top of being in school and her stress level is through the rough.

Puff said something about her husband that described me fairly perfectly. I don’t mind hearing about problems with a solution. If something needs to be fixed then tell me and I will see what I can do to fix it. If there really isn’t a solution, it just is, then I don’t understand the point in talking about it because it cant be changed so it should just be ignored and forgotten about.

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^ Gotcha. It’s more a timing thing.

People are pretty burnt out and hungry when they get home, then you might get your second wind after you relax for an hour and eat something.

Sometimes I send my husband an email with “the haps” during the afternoon. Just giving him a head’s up on what’s going on, ie. I called the insurance company, kid needs to be here or there tonight, whatever. That’s been a good way to give him the bullet points without all the auditory overload when he hits the door. He’s a lot like BlueCollar in that he can’t handle too much verbal input, especially when he’s tired. We balance each other that way. I’m way more social and more verbal. That’s one of the things that attracted me to him, he can bring the quiet. :slight_smile: