Most likely where the dictionary got most of its terms: society. The collective agreement.
What’s your definition? And how does raping a child, not just pedophilia (subtle, disgusting difference: the former is always forced and unwanted, while the latter [as in Greece] can be consensual) fit into that? I’m seriously interested, no bullshit.
And other animals don’t decide. Nor do they contemplate morality. That’s the whole human part of existence.
Of course, you may counter by saying, “How do you know? Are you Dr. Doolittle? Do bears tell you that you’re evil for not raping kids?”
Yes, I speak to bears. But only Pedobear says that. The rest are chill.
…this is absolute bullshit. I, or an atheist, do not need a religious damnation of something vile like child abuse to deem such acts “wrong”. That you would even go there amazes me…[/quote]
If it’s so obvious, you should have no problem justifying for us just why this is so.
(btw, “religious damnation” is not the reason most Christians use to justify our own moral opposition to this practice)[/quote]
…because i say it’s wrong to sexually abuse a defenseless child. Because the law states it’s wrong. What more do you need?[/quote]
I say tomayto, you say tomahto, and pedophiles say something else. What makes your opinion more valid than theirs?
And:
Are all laws moral ones? Was pedophilia, then, okay in ancient Greece?
[/quote]
…i really don’t care what your opinion on these matters is. When a person is able to make an informed decision whilst being fully aware of the possible repercussions of that decision, and is thus able to consent to a sexual act, i have no problem with age per se…
…what children are concerned, we can, and must, safely assume that they are not able to make such decisions and are coerced and forced into these sex acts by men in a role of authority. Altough children are not able to consent to sexual acts, they are people who should not be forced into doing things that are damaging to their psyche…
[quote]AceRock wrote:
Most likely where the dictionary got most of its terms: society. The collective agreement.
What’s your definition? And how does raping a child, not just pedophilia (subtle, disgusting difference: the former is always forced and unwanted, while the latter [as in Greece] can be consensual) fit into that? I’m seriously interested, no bullshit.
[/quote]
Wait just a dadburned minute here. So pedophilia is okay, but raping a child is not? Do I have that right?
You and I must be using two different dictionaries.
The inherent part of causing suffering comes from my personal experience of suffering.
I know I don’t enjoy it when people rape me. So it follows that I shouldn’t do that to other people. Cuz it’s rude.
Also, yes, I’m fairly sure that “slaying” usually involves harm. Even if the wolf ate the deer, he still harmed it while killing the thing. But my point was there was at least survival involved in that case.
Cortes, I simply made that distinction to illustrate the harmful part of child molestation. And to point out that morality is not an event, it’s a process.
If you really think I’m cool with pedophilia, you might want to let this one go, since you started on the side of making me defend its evilness.
…i really don’t care what your opinion on these matters is. When a person is able to make an informed decision whilst being fully aware of the possible repercussions of that decision, and is thus able to consent to a sexual act, i have no problem with age per se…
…what children are concerned, we can, and must, safely assume that they are not able to make such decisions and are coerced and forced into these sex acts by men in a role of authority. Altough children are not able to consent to sexual acts, they are people who should not be forced into doing things that are damaging to their psyche…
[/quote]
Aww Eph, I care about your opinion, otherwise I wouldn’t be engaging you. You’re one of the most level headed and amicable of all of the posters on this site whose opinions I do not usually agree with. I’m usually a lurker but trust me and see my join date, I’ve been here for a long time. Though I may not agree with you all the time, I do respect you.
I just wanted to get some clarification from you on your previous answers to my question, though.
To keep this thread from bouncing all over the place, I’ll rephrase and ask the same one I did of Ace:
Why, specifically, is it wrong to cause harm to a child or for that matter another human?
Your previous answers were, paraphrased, of course: 1. Because I say so. 2. Because it’s the law. Is this your final answer?
[quote]AceRock wrote:
The inherent part of causing suffering comes from my personal experience of suffering.
I know I don’t enjoy it when people rape me. So it follows that I shouldn’t do that to other people. Cuz it’s rude.
Also, yes, I’m fairly sure that “slaying” usually involves harm. Even if the wolf ate the deer, he still harmed it while killing the thing. But my point was there was at least survival involved in that case.
Cortes, I simply made that distinction to illustrate the harmful part of child molestation. And to point out that morality is not an event, it’s a process.
If you really think I’m cool with pedophilia, you might want to let this one go, since you started on the side of making me defend its evilness.
You also skipped my question.[/quote]
I honestly did not understand what you meant by what you posted.
I’ll be happy to answer your just as soon as you answer mine adequately. I’ll write what I’ve gathered from what you’ve written thus far and you let me know if I have it right:
You don’t like being raped, therefore rape is wrong.
Morality actually changes? (Again, I genuinely am not clear on what you are asserting here with your phrase above, “morality is not an event, it’s a process.”)
[quote]AceRock wrote:
Most likely where the dictionary got most of its terms: society. The collective agreement.
What’s your definition? And how does raping a child, not just pedophilia (subtle, disgusting difference: the former is always forced and unwanted, while the latter [as in Greece] can be consensual) fit into that? I’m seriously interested, no bullshit.
[/quote]
Wait just a dadburned minute here. So pedophilia is okay, but raping a child is not? Do I have that right?
You and I must be using two different dictionaries.[/quote]
That one threw me for a loop too.
So apparently if Ace can talk a five year old into having sex with him, i.e., it’s “consensual” and “Greek”, everything is A-OK and good-to-go?[/quote]
Maybe the catch is that it has to be an ancient Greek child?
The mind is what separates humans from animals, not the brain. We have a less obscured view of the world than animals. Not a clear one, but a bit better. They don’t usually argue morality through machines they create. Too busy finding food.
Society got its agreement from years of people like us having these discussions. Apparently not too many pedophiles are good at debate.
Since we used to have sex with kids in Greece, and we don’t anymore, then sure, we could “evolve” back into having sex with kids again. I’m not Nostradamus, or Darwin. Just a dude that thinks putting his dick in a kid’s hole seems weird. Hilarious to me that this point is actually being contested.
Cortes, sorry for skipping your question.
I think we both arrived at the same conclusion that harming kids is wrong because… we’re not stupid.
Are you implying that there’s something leading us both there? Other than simple reason? God, perhaps?
OK, Push, two different quotes about wolf killing joined into one.
1- Wolf kills deer. Eats it. Survival.
2- Wolf kills deer. Doesn’t eat it. Strange.
Both cases, though, the deer was harmed. Are we really arguing over definitions? Harm? Like, it hurts? Not too subjective. Pain is a physiological process, not something mysterious.
I don’t really know where the Golden Rule came from. But it seems to make sense, in a simple Newtonian physics way.
One second on ancient greek baby raping, I gotta read the beginning of this unholy mess.
…i really don’t care what your opinion on these matters is. When a person is able to make an informed decision whilst being fully aware of the possible repercussions of that decision, and is thus able to consent to a sexual act, i have no problem with age per se…
…what children are concerned, we can, and must, safely assume that they are not able to make such decisions and are coerced and forced into these sex acts by men in a role of authority. Altough children are not able to consent to sexual acts, they are people who should not be forced into doing things that are damaging to their psyche…
[/quote]
Aww Eph, I care about your opinion, otherwise I wouldn’t be engaging you. You’re one of the most level headed and amicable of all of the posters on this site whose opinions I do not usually agree with. I’m usually a lurker but trust me and see my join date, I’ve been here for a long time. Though I may not agree with you all the time, I do respect you.
I just wanted to get some clarification from you on your previous answers to my question, though.
To keep this thread from bouncing all over the place, I’ll rephrase and ask the same one I did of Ace:
Why, specifically, is it wrong to cause harm to a child or for that matter another human?
Your previous answers were, paraphrased, of course: 1. Because I say so. 2. Because it’s the law. Is this your final answer?[/quote]
…combine points 1 and 2 with my post quoted above and you have my answer Cortes…
Explain it to me another time then, cuz all I saw was a whole lot of questions, with no answers. I’m interested to know your feelings, since you’ve heard mine.
And to be clear, we have all stated that pedophilia is wrong.
Child rape is another boundary that I brought up to make the pain involved more poignant.
Yes, morality changes. It’s different for different cultures, especially over time.
Morality isn’t set in stone, unless you’re Moses. And even for him, I’m guessing there were more than 10 things you shouldn’t do. Like rape kids, even though it wasn’t listed.