Hathcock was without a doubt 8 kinds of badass.
[quote]Contrl wrote:
Hathcock was without a doubt 8 kinds of badass.[/quote]
If you have read the book it goes over that incident which the movie Saving Private Ryan kind of stole for dramatic effect. Where the US sniper hits the German sniper through the scope. Hathcock actually did that with a sniper that was hunting him down in the jungles of Vietnam.
D
[quote]wukey wrote:
and the gun related deaths in england is much lower than the US.[quote]
This is in it’s very limited scope a true statement, however using 2005 data (the latest complete data for both countries) the UK doesn’t seem quite as friendly as you’d have us believe.
2005 England and Wales Total Violence Against the Person (VAP) per 100,000 population: 1,970
Source: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs07/hosb1107.pdf
2005 United States Total Violent Crime per 100,000 population: 469.2
Source: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_01.html
Bear in mind that the US statistics include suicide in the violent crime totals whereas the UK statistics do not.
Hey OP: Congrats, I’ll see ya in Iraq! I’m commissioning myself ( via Direct Commission) sometime in March.
That does sound like an awesome ass day. I love going to the range, it’s what makes the measely paycheck worth it.
As a future Engineer Officer, I would love to use Snipers as forward reconnaissance/protection. In my particular unit, which specializes in building bridges, snipers would be a huuuuuge advantage. They could watch our asses while we set up/destroy whatever we need to. I’d love to have snipers at my disposal someday.
Of course, I’d be smart and sit down independently with them and discuss what they would like to do before I just order then to do some stupid, pointless artillery mission (they have their own forward observers for that, they don’t need a highly skilled sniper to double up on that detail).
[quote]Brazen T wrote:
Is that 2nd pic you posted a Panther rifle of some sort?
[/quote]
I’m assuming you mean in the 2nd iteration of pictures. That’s actually a SR-25. It fires the larger 7.62 round, but from an M-16 platform. The army plans to eventually replace all the M-24 bolt action sniper rifles with this.
Hella fun to shoot, I had 7in groupings at 600m, and i’m not a huge gun nerd.
[quote]Contrl wrote:
wukey wrote:
YOU DONT NEED A GUN
I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.[/quote]
Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6 right?
[quote]Liquid447 wrote:
Brazen T wrote:
Is that 2nd pic you posted a Panther rifle of some sort?
I’m assuming you mean in the 2nd iteration of pictures. That’s actually a SR-25. It fires the larger 7.62 round, but from an M-16 platform. The army plans to eventually replace all the M-24 bolt action sniper rifles with this.
Hella fun to shoot, I had 7in groupings at 600m, and i’m not a huge gun nerd.[/quote]
7" at 600m is accurate. Close to sub 1 moa accuracy. Not bad with standard ammunition and a rifle you have not shot before. The quick follow up shots the new rifle will allow will be a big change.
My guess is the instructor, with match ammo could cut that in half.
[quote]hedo wrote:
Liquid447 wrote:
Brazen T wrote:
Is that 2nd pic you posted a Panther rifle of some sort?
I’m assuming you mean in the 2nd iteration of pictures. That’s actually a SR-25. It fires the larger 7.62 round, but from an M-16 platform. The army plans to eventually replace all the M-24 bolt action sniper rifles with this.
Hella fun to shoot, I had 7in groupings at 600m, and i’m not a huge gun nerd.
7" at 600m is accurate. Close to sub 1 moa accuracy. Not bad with standard ammunition and a rifle you have not shot before. The quick follow up shots the new rifle will allow will be a big change.
My guess is the instructor, with match ammo could cut that in half.
[/quote]
The instuctor not only hit the 300m target with his m-16 with only iron sights STANDING UP. But, hit a 600m target 4/7x with the same iron sighted weapon.
[quote]Dedicated wrote:
Contrl wrote:
Hathcock was without a doubt 8 kinds of badass.
If you have read the book it goes over that incident which the movie Saving Private Ryan kind of stole for dramatic effect. Where the US sniper hits the German sniper through the scope. Hathcock actually did that with a sniper that was hunting him down in the jungles of Vietnam.
D[/quote]
I remember reading about that. He said that when he examined the body he realized that he had been spotted and was being targeted by the enemy sniper and he just happened to get the shot off first.
The enemy sniper and him were stalking each other because they both had huge reputations of being “great” or “horrible” snipers, depending on which side you were on.
[quote]Liquid447 wrote:
The instuctor not only hit the 300m target with his m-16 with only iron sights STANDING UP. But, hit a 600m target 4/7x with the same iron sighted weapon.
[/quote]
Not to diminish the instructor’s ability, but Marine Corps KD course (Known Distance), the course of fire used to qualify recruits, includes a string of fire from the 500 yard line with iron sights. So I would expect a sniper school instructor to be proficient with iron sights from the 600 yard line.
[quote]Loose Tool wrote:
Liquid447 wrote:
The instuctor not only hit the 300m target with his m-16 with only iron sights STANDING UP. But, hit a 600m target 4/7x with the same iron sighted weapon.
Not to diminish the instructor’s ability, but Marine Corps KD course (Known Distance), the course of fire used to qualify recruits, includes a string of fire from the 500 yard line with iron sights. So I would expect a sniper school instructor to be proficient with iron sights from the 600 yard line.
[/quote]
You’re right. However, the targets used on the known distance range are 6 feet x 6 feet, whereas the E type target is about 40in by 18in.
[quote]Liquid447 wrote:
You’re right. However, the targets used on the known distance range are 6 feet x 6 feet, whereas the E type target is about 40in by 18in.
[/quote]
My point is that he’s likely better than you give him credit for. It’s not that hard to hit an “E” target at 600 yards with iron sights. The KD course uses the “E” target at the 500 yards. Recruits that don’t hit the black 40" x 20" silhouette score no points at that stage of fire.
My bad, i had thought the marines still used the circular bullseye for the KD range.
I don’t think it’s fair to say that it’s not ‘that hard’ to hit a target at 600m. I think it’s takes a decent amount of training, plus good dicipline and proper application of shooting techniques.
The army FM7-8 lists the max effective range of the m-16 for a POINT target as 550m. I feel that extra 100m difference adds a little more than you think.
Have you fired at targets at 600m? I consistantly qualify expert with the m-16, but i do not think i would have the same success trying to engage the targets at 600m
with all that said, he was wearing the ‘presidents hundred’ tab, so i feel there’s no contest when it comes to questioning his shooting ability.
[quote]gatesoftanhauser wrote:
I’m commissioning myself ( via Direct Commission) sometime in March.
[/quote]
LOL. I had to read this sentence a few times. The first time through, I thought you were taking the “Army of One” thing literally and were commissioning yourself.
Good Luck,
DB
[quote]DickBag wrote:
gatesoftanhauser wrote:
Hey OP: Congrats, I’ll see ya in Iraq! I’m commissioning myself ( via Direct Commission) sometime in March.
That does sound like an awesome ass day. I love going to the range, it’s what makes the measely paycheck worth it.
As a future Engineer Officer, I would love to use Snipers as forward reconnaissance/protection. In my particular unit, which specializes in building bridges, snipers would be a huuuuuge advantage. They could watch our asses while we set up/destroy whatever we need to. I’d love to have snipers at my disposal someday.
Of course, I’d be smart and sit down independently with them and discuss what they would like to do before I just order then to do some stupid, pointless artillery mission (they have their own forward observers for that, they don’t need a highly skilled sniper to double up on that detail).
look at me mommy, look how great i am[/quote]
God, you’re such a dickbag.
mike
[quote]DickBag wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
DickBag wrote:
gatesoftanhauser wrote:
Hey OP: Congrats, I’ll see ya in Iraq! I’m commissioning myself ( via Direct Commission) sometime in March.
That does sound like an awesome ass day. I love going to the range, it’s what makes the measely paycheck worth it.
As a future Engineer Officer, I would love to use Snipers as forward reconnaissance/protection. In my particular unit, which specializes in building bridges, snipers would be a huuuuuge advantage. They could watch our asses while we set up/destroy whatever we need to. I’d love to have snipers at my disposal someday.
Of course, I’d be smart and sit down independently with them and discuss what they would like to do before I just order then to do some stupid, pointless artillery mission (they have their own forward observers for that, they don’t need a highly skilled sniper to double up on that detail).
look at me mommy, look how great i am
God, you’re such a dickbag.
mike
read his ppst. if you cant sum up that hes a show off then your also a dickbag.
maybe we can be dickbag friends
[/quote]
Yes, for some reason reading his post I hear Keith Olbermann’s voice when he mocks bill o’rielly.
D
[quote]DickBag wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
DickBag wrote:
gatesoftanhauser wrote:
Hey OP: Congrats, I’ll see ya in Iraq! I’m commissioning myself ( via Direct Commission) sometime in March.
That does sound like an awesome ass day. I love going to the range, it’s what makes the measely paycheck worth it.
As a future Engineer Officer, I would love to use Snipers as forward reconnaissance/protection. In my particular unit, which specializes in building bridges, snipers would be a huuuuuge advantage. They could watch our asses while we set up/destroy whatever we need to. I’d love to have snipers at my disposal someday.
Of course, I’d be smart and sit down independently with them and discuss what they would like to do before I just order then to do some stupid, pointless artillery mission (they have their own forward observers for that, they don’t need a highly skilled sniper to double up on that detail).
look at me mommy, look how great i am
God, you’re such a dickbag.
mike
read his ppst. if you cant sum up that hes a show off then your also a dickbag.
maybe we can be dickbag friends
[/quote]
Nah, I just like the handle.
mike
[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
gatesoftanhauser wrote:
I’m commissioning myself ( via Direct Commission) sometime in March.
LOL. I had to read this sentence a few times. The first time through, I thought you were taking the “Army of One” thing literally and were commissioning yourself.
Good Luck,
DB[/quote]
Thanks Dolla.
By the way everybody, Dickbag is an Internet Tough Guy. Just thought you guys should know.
“The OP was taught to shoot at a military school. I am not sure how I would feel if they taught shooting at the public high school. I am going to teach my kids myself and I don’t like the idea of a group of 14 year olds screwing around with guns with the typical pisspoor public school supervision.”
I graduated in 92 and my school had a shooting team. We also had rifles and shotguns in our vehicles. To my memory not a single person ever shot anyone else. People would go hunting before and after school so weapons were pretty common in vehicles. The shooting team instructor was just a teacher, not a Rambo type.
I did not grow up in hickville but in Washington State near the capitol in Tumwater. The late 80’s and early 90’s was not so long ago when we had firearms on school grounds and no one I ever knew ever thought about doing something crazy with them. Guns do not kill people by themselves. Nine years in the Army and I never saw one go off by itself. Excluding cookoffs after extended firing of the machine guns. And even that is fairly rare.
Actually thinking about it again. Firearms training should be incorporated into gym class. With the absense of so many fathers many kids are probably not getting the firearms training they historically would have if dad was around. It should be required to graduate from school. One should display competence and knowledge of firearms before exiting with a diploma.
AND- if you refuse for some reason or another eg. doctors note or whatever, you should still be allowed to graduate. But with a pink graduate hat instead of the normal school color.