Anyone else get to pick out the cow they want to eat?
Only way to go.
Mmm… that one looks tasty.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Anyone else get to pick out the cow they want to eat?
Only way to go.
Mmm… that one looks tasty.[/quote]
lol!
I know this is gonna sound weird, but sometimes I think my dog looks like she’d be tasty.
Flame away, flamers.
lol
[quote]WWEAttitude wrote:
I’ve been eating alot of meat for quite some time now, but lately alot of my family members are becoming vegetarian and they always have me against the ropes in regards to their reasoning and arguments of how much more beneficial a vegetarian diet is compared to eating meat.
It’s starting to annoy me now and I want to know some good reasons (not just “meat tastes good” or meat is for men) as to why its not good to be strictly vegetarian. What do you guys say to people who try to push their vegan “agenda” onto you?[/quote]
I browsed through the whole thread and was surprised that there was a lack of information answering this guy’s question.
Simply being a vegitarian isn’t so detrimental to one’s health if he or she eats eggs and milk, but being a vegan can be terrible for one’s health.
A vegan diet will likely be low in saturated fats (there are only a few plant sources of saturated fat–coconut and chocolate, and not too many else). Saturated fats have many essential health functions and benefits. See T-Nation article The Truth About Saturated Fat.
If the vegan diet is a low fat diet (which seems it easily could be), it could be dangerous for the brain. Fatty animal foods are a primary source of serine and choline which are essential to cognitive function. Low fat diets have been shown to increase the occurrance of dimensia http://www.stopagingnow.com/liveinthenow/article/low-fat-dieting-linked-to-cognitive-decline#.
Also if one is a vegan and does not supplement their diet with vitamin b 12, they will suffer severe and irreversible damage, especially to the brain and nervous system, since animal foods are the only sources of this vitamin. A vegan diet will also be lacking in choline as mentioned, iron, and iodine if one does not use salt with added iodine.
This leads to the evolutionary argument. A vegan diet is one that is only made possible by modern technology. If one did this in our ancestral hunter-forager context, he would die from the nutrient deficiencies. Human history is necessarily linked to meat consumption. Our hominin ancesters HAD to eat meat in order for larger brains to evolve 06.14.99 - Meat-eating was essential for human evolution, says UC Berkeley anthropologist specializing in diet. If one were to only eat vegitables, he or she could not get enough nutrient or calories to survive. With the advent of agriculture, we are now able to grind up and concentrate plant sources to make them high in calories (breads, pastas, sugar). This is no solution to the removing the calorically and nutritiously dense animal products because grains, which are still less nutrient dense than meat, cause a variety of health problems. For one, they are inflammatory http://nourishedkitchen.com/against-the-grain-10-reasons-to-give-up-grains/. Inflammation can cause arthritis, cancer, heart disease, among other ailments.
To conclude, modern technology allows one to get by on a vegan diet through supplementation and eating grains. But at what costs? What is one losing by getting these through supplementation, rather than the natural source? What compounds from these natural sources is one losing, which science has not yet discovered the essential health benefits or necessities of. We clearly evolved to eat meat.
If someone is a vegan for ethical reasons then you’d have to debate their philosophy, but I don’t see why they couldn’t eat eggs and milk if their concern is welfare of animals. Cows can be milked and eggs can be taken from chickens in a way that doesn’t harm the animal. Also somehting to think about is that chickens and cows (farm animals in general) have been artificially selected/bred so that they are now dependant on human beings to survive. without the meat/milk/egg industry all those animals would likly die. If every human being went vegan, there would be no demand for those animals. What would then happen to them since they would be a profitless liability? they all would die from neglect perhaps. The meat industry is killing animals on the one hand, but ensuring the survival of several species on the other. Without it, whole species could die. Ask a vegan if he’s willing to accept that.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Anyone else get to pick out the cow they want to eat?
Only way to go.
Mmm… that one looks tasty.[/quote]
lol!
I know this is gonna sound weird, but sometimes I think my dog looks like she’d be tasty.
Flame away, flamers.
lol
[/quote]
I’ve though weirder things. I often buy meet by the animal or limb. after spending ages cutting the lats and traps off a lambs scapula sometimes you get weird thoughts when your at the gym.
[quote]lnname wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Anyone else get to pick out the cow they want to eat?
Only way to go.
Mmm… that one looks tasty.[/quote]
lol!
I know this is gonna sound weird, but sometimes I think my dog looks like she’d be tasty.
Flame away, flamers.
lol
[/quote]
I’ve though weirder things. I often buy meet by the animal or limb. after spending ages cutting the lats and traps off a lambs scapula sometimes you get weird thoughts when your at the gym.
[/quote]
LOL! Do you mean like “Hey, that dude looks like he’d be good eatin’!”
My arguments with evangelical Veg-heads…
1 - “PETA says that only humans drink milk as adults…” - Can we say Santa? Can we say cat’s? Have you ever seen what a grizzly does to a cow? They rip it’s udder off and drink the milk and then eat the cow, sometimes while it is still alive. Fact - There are worse things than a bolt gun to the head.
2 - “I’m a vegan and PETA says you shouldn’t eat meat cause it’s dead flesh.” - Oh yeah bright guy? Peter Singer an animal right’s philosopher and founding member of PETA specifically said in his books that he was opposed to eating sentient animals. He isn’t a vegan. He eats fish, seafood, escargot, eggs, milk, honey etc… He has also gone on record saying that eating meat that was humanely raised and humanely killed after a reasonably long, healthy life isn’t the best idea but can’t be considered strictly unethical.
3 - “Vegetables are best to eat because poor animals don’t have be killed” - Spend 1 week on a farm and we can count the number of moles, voles and other varmint that get dug up while you are tilling. If it’s commercial agriculture we can add all the fish, insect, birds and small mammals that die or sterilized by the chemicals we spray on the fields. If it is organic agriculture you are equally involved in the meat industry. The top soil additives used in organic agriculture are Cow manure, horse manure, chicken manure, sheep manure, composted fish, blood meal, bone meal etc… Green manure (alfalfa etc…) are not terribly effective in intensive ag. situations. Just cause we let your meat rot and than grow things in it doesn’t mean no animals died. Moreover if you consider the mind of the animal the issue than 1 cow should be worth less than 200 varment/fish/birds. So ranching would actually be less death-dealing than farming.
Just a thought. For the record I don’t think eating huge amounts of factory meat is very smart either.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]lnname wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Anyone else get to pick out the cow they want to eat?
Only way to go.
Mmm… that one looks tasty.[/quote]
lol!
I know this is gonna sound weird, but sometimes I think my dog looks like she’d be tasty.
Flame away, flamers.
lol
[/quote]
I’ve though weirder things. I often buy meet by the animal or limb. after spending ages cutting the lats and traps off a lambs scapula sometimes you get weird thoughts when your at the gym.
[/quote]
LOL! Do you mean like “Hey, that dude looks like he’d be good eatin’!”
[/quote]
haha at physio once, the guy kinda lifted my entire right shoulder capsule and shook it out, like a, I dunno, shoulder roast or something. Just felt like he could have torn the fucker off right there and cooked it up. Of course, being MY shoulder that would have been barbaric, but sure did feel like there was a lot of meat there. Makes me wonder what might go down if my plane crashed in the Andes or something. I hope it’s with a plane full of vegetarians.
[quote]jormanders74 wrote:
[quote]WWEAttitude wrote:
I’ve been eating alot of meat for quite some time now, but lately alot of my family members are becoming vegetarian and they always have me against the ropes in regards to their reasoning and arguments of how much more beneficial a vegetarian diet is compared to eating meat.
It’s starting to annoy me now and I want to know some good reasons (not just “meat tastes good” or meat is for men) as to why its not good to be strictly vegetarian. What do you guys say to people who try to push their vegan “agenda” onto you?[/quote]
I browsed through the whole thread and was surprised that there was a lack of information answering this guy’s question.
Simply being a vegitarian isn’t so detrimental to one’s health if he or she eats eggs and milk, but being a vegan can be terrible for one’s health.
A vegan diet will likely be low in saturated fats (there are only a few plant sources of saturated fat–coconut and chocolate, and not too many else). Saturated fats have many essential health functions and benefits. See T-Nation article The Truth About Saturated Fat.
If the vegan diet is a low fat diet (which seems it easily could be), it could be dangerous for the brain. Fatty animal foods are a primary source of serine and choline which are essential to cognitive function. Low fat diets have been shown to increase the occurrance of dimensia http://www.stopagingnow.com/liveinthenow/article/low-fat-dieting-linked-to-cognitive-decline#.
Also if one is a vegan and does not supplement their diet with vitamin b 12, they will suffer severe and irreversible damage, especially to the brain and nervous system, since animal foods are the only sources of this vitamin. A vegan diet will also be lacking in choline as mentioned, iron, and iodine if one does not use salt with added iodine.
This leads to the evolutionary argument. A vegan diet is one that is only made possible by modern technology. If one did this in our ancestral hunter-forager context, he would die from the nutrient deficiencies. Human history is necessarily linked to meat consumption. Our hominin ancesters HAD to eat meat in order for larger brains to evolve 06.14.99 - Meat-eating was essential for human evolution, says UC Berkeley anthropologist specializing in diet. If one were to only eat vegitables, he or she could not get enough nutrient or calories to survive. With the advent of agriculture, we are now able to grind up and concentrate plant sources to make them high in calories (breads, pastas, sugar). This is no solution to the removing the calorically and nutritiously dense animal products because grains, which are still less nutrient dense than meat, cause a variety of health problems. For one, they are inflammatory http://nourishedkitchen.com/against-the-grain-10-reasons-to-give-up-grains/. Inflammation can cause arthritis, cancer, heart disease, among other ailments.
To conclude, modern technology allows one to get by on a vegan diet through supplementation and eating grains. But at what costs? What is one losing by getting these through supplementation, rather than the natural source? What compounds from these natural sources is one losing, which science has not yet discovered the essential health benefits or necessities of. We clearly evolved to eat meat.
If someone is a vegan for ethical reasons then you’d have to debate their philosophy, but I don’t see why they couldn’t eat eggs and milk if their concern is welfare of animals. Cows can be milked and eggs can be taken from chickens in a way that doesn’t harm the animal. Also somehting to think about is that chickens and cows (farm animals in general) have been artificially selected/bred so that they are now dependant on human beings to survive. without the meat/milk/egg industry all those animals would likly die. If every human being went vegan, there would be no demand for those animals. What would then happen to them since they would be a profitless liability? they all would die from neglect perhaps. The meat industry is killing animals on the one hand, but ensuring the survival of several species on the other. Without it, whole species could die. Ask a vegan if he’s willing to accept that.[/quote]
That’s well thought out, but probably wasted on most vegetarians. When attempting to have an intelligent discussion with vegetarians you are confronting emotion with logic and facts, always a waste of time. If you ask vegetarians or vegans about what they base their beliefs on, once you get beyond rehersed talking points you get to their “love of animals” which started when they had pets as a child; dogs, cats, a hamster. They fail to realize that a cow or a chicken isn’t a dog or a cat. Cows and chickens have very little in the way of charisma or intelligence. Really, how much intelligence does it take to chew grass and shit all day? While I would hate to have to kill a dog, and could kill a cow anyday (for food not fun) and not lose a bit of sleep over it. But that distinction is lost on most vegans.
I was a vegetarian for four years, I ate eggs, and drank whole milk, but still found it very difficult to maintain any substantial lean body mass, and had to give up weight lifting for that period. I also got sick a lot. Before you say that I just didn’t do it right, and if I had eaten properly I could have lifted weights and wouldn’t have gotten sick (the typical vegetarian/vegan counter argument) I am going to say bullshit. I was obsessed with nutrition and planned my diet meticulously from day 1, and still had health problems. There may be some people (women mostly) who can maintain their health while on a vegetarian diet, but I wasn’t one, and frankly never saw one. They all looked anemic and spent most of the year battling a cough or runny nose.
But anyway, who gives a shit what they do with themselves. More meat for me.
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
[quote]jormanders74 wrote:
[quote]WWEAttitude wrote:
I’ve been eating alot of meat for quite some time now, but lately alot of my family members are becoming vegetarian and they always have me against the ropes in regards to their reasoning and arguments of how much more beneficial a vegetarian diet is compared to eating meat.
It’s starting to annoy me now and I want to know some good reasons (not just “meat tastes good” or meat is for men) as to why its not good to be strictly vegetarian. What do you guys say to people who try to push their vegan “agenda” onto you?[/quote]
I browsed through the whole thread and was surprised that there was a lack of information answering this guy’s question.
Simply being a vegitarian isn’t so detrimental to one’s health if he or she eats eggs and milk, but being a vegan can be terrible for one’s health.
A vegan diet will likely be low in saturated fats (there are only a few plant sources of saturated fat–coconut and chocolate, and not too many else). Saturated fats have many essential health functions and benefits. See T-Nation article The Truth About Saturated Fat.
If the vegan diet is a low fat diet (which seems it easily could be), it could be dangerous for the brain. Fatty animal foods are a primary source of serine and choline which are essential to cognitive function. Low fat diets have been shown to increase the occurrance of dimensia http://www.stopagingnow.com/liveinthenow/article/low-fat-dieting-linked-to-cognitive-decline#.
Also if one is a vegan and does not supplement their diet with vitamin b 12, they will suffer severe and irreversible damage, especially to the brain and nervous system, since animal foods are the only sources of this vitamin. A vegan diet will also be lacking in choline as mentioned, iron, and iodine if one does not use salt with added iodine.
This leads to the evolutionary argument. A vegan diet is one that is only made possible by modern technology. If one did this in our ancestral hunter-forager context, he would die from the nutrient deficiencies. Human history is necessarily linked to meat consumption. Our hominin ancesters HAD to eat meat in order for larger brains to evolve 06.14.99 - Meat-eating was essential for human evolution, says UC Berkeley anthropologist specializing in diet. If one were to only eat vegitables, he or she could not get enough nutrient or calories to survive. With the advent of agriculture, we are now able to grind up and concentrate plant sources to make them high in calories (breads, pastas, sugar). This is no solution to the removing the calorically and nutritiously dense animal products because grains, which are still less nutrient dense than meat, cause a variety of health problems. For one, they are inflammatory http://nourishedkitchen.com/against-the-grain-10-reasons-to-give-up-grains/. Inflammation can cause arthritis, cancer, heart disease, among other ailments.
To conclude, modern technology allows one to get by on a vegan diet through supplementation and eating grains. But at what costs? What is one losing by getting these through supplementation, rather than the natural source? What compounds from these natural sources is one losing, which science has not yet discovered the essential health benefits or necessities of. We clearly evolved to eat meat.
If someone is a vegan for ethical reasons then you’d have to debate their philosophy, but I don’t see why they couldn’t eat eggs and milk if their concern is welfare of animals. Cows can be milked and eggs can be taken from chickens in a way that doesn’t harm the animal. Also somehting to think about is that chickens and cows (farm animals in general) have been artificially selected/bred so that they are now dependant on human beings to survive. without the meat/milk/egg industry all those animals would likly die. If every human being went vegan, there would be no demand for those animals. What would then happen to them since they would be a profitless liability? they all would die from neglect perhaps. The meat industry is killing animals on the one hand, but ensuring the survival of several species on the other. Without it, whole species could die. Ask a vegan if he’s willing to accept that.[/quote]
That’s well thought out, but probably wasted on most vegetarians. When attempting to have an intelligent discussion with vegetarians you are confronting emotion with logic and facts, always a waste of time. If you ask vegetarians or vegans about what they base their beliefs on, once you get beyond rehersed talking points you get to their “love of animals” which started when they had pets as a child; dogs, cats, a hamster. They fail to realize that a cow or a chicken isn’t a dog or a cat. Cows and chickens have very little in the way of charisma or intelligence. Really, how much intelligence does it take to chew grass and shit all day? While I would hate to have to kill a dog, and could kill a cow anyday (for food not fun) and not lose a bit of sleep over it. But that distinction is lost on most vegans.
I was a vegetarian for four years, I ate eggs, and drank whole milk, but still found it very difficult to maintain any substantial lean body mass, and had to give up weight lifting for that period. I also got sick a lot. Before you say that I just didn’t do it right, and if I had eaten properly I could have lifted weights and wouldn’t have gotten sick (the typical vegetarian/vegan counter argument) I am going to say bullshit. I was obsessed with nutrition and planned my diet meticulously from day 1, and still had health problems. There may be some people (women mostly) who can maintain their health while on a vegetarian diet, but I wasn’t one, and frankly never saw one. They all looked anemic and spent most of the year battling a cough or runny nose.
But anyway, who gives a shit what they do with themselves. More meat for me. [/quote]
I’m not an advocate of lacto-ovo vegitarianism. It’s just not as bad as being vegan. eating meat is by far much better.
The guy wanted logical arguments so I attempted to give him some. I agree that most vegitarians (most people for that matter) will not sit and truly listen to logic. The general populace has a tendency to wait to speak instead of actually listening, and keep the conversation emotionally charged.
Saw this today thought it was relevant.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Anyone else get to pick out the cow they want to eat?
Only way to go.
Mmm… that one looks tasty.[/quote]
Parents have a ranch with Beefmasters, I get 300 lbs of beef about every 6 months. So yes I pick those fuckers out.