i´m definetely NOT saying that It was a smart thing to do but It would´t have gotten him in trouble in Europe for example. 0,1 doesn´t really do any harm to one´s “sharpness”. That´s like half a beer!
As a 14 yr. veteran of law enforcement, I want to throw my two cents worth out here. First, I understand the argument that it was only .02% BAC and that’s no big deal, but it is against the law. Second, I don’t know about the laws in PA, but I am guessing you have to be 21 to legally drink in PA anyway, another law broken. Cops have some discretion about making these type of arrests, and it’s doubtful you were a menace to society, but bottom line you were in violation. Do consult an attorney and do not enter a guilty or nolo plea without consulting with one first. As fars as refusing the balance and coordination tests. That’s up to you. I feel it makes you look guilty to the judge/jury. I will scrutinize & record everything you do and say to build my case, because I hate to lose. Refuse the chemical test? Well, smacks of having something to hide to me, and you will lose your license for quite a while, no matter what the out come of the case. The DMV hearing for the suspension is completely seperate from the DUI case. Even if found “not guilty” or the case is dismissed, the DMV can, and mostly like will have already, suspended your driving privilege. Regarding a hardship granting of the “to, from and during course of employment” driving privileges, well, that’s a crap shoot at best. Everyone makes mistakes, not everyone learns from them. Good luck in the future. Herc
Intent is a factor. Thats why it plays such a vital role in courts.
I suppose you dont see a difference between firing a weapon into a crowd and not putting a fence around your swimming pool. (Or any other potential neglectful act) In both cases people can get hurt. Many children have drowned in an unfenced pool. As a matter of fact the parents usually say they were just their parents sight until they were temporarily distracted (playing with the radio/ lighting a smoke).
You dont believe that a person can learn a lesson through their own mistakes. Rather that one must be ‘given’ a punishment. Thats fine. I’m saying that its individual. I learned my lesson without being punished for the stolen gum, others go to jail for 10 years and never learn their lesson. Knowing how different people react to different situation is almost impossible to guess.
I’m not even gonna touch what you said about this kid now being a potential date rapist.
Anyways, different strokes for different folks. We all have opinions on the subject. There are very few Universal laws and this isnt one of them.
I’m off this thread. Doogie, you get the last word.
I am not a Democrat…never have been…never will be.
As I recall from porchdawg's account, he did not slide in to a family of 5 killing them and torching their minivan. He had a couple of social drinks and hit the road, not bright given the the well known DUI laws, but not dangerous. The kid asked for advice...Most of the advice given on this board was for him to butter up his asshole and hand it willing to the judge. That's not honorable, that's fucking stupid. I gave him advice he could use, sorry for being helpful. If I was in a jam the last thing I need is a bunch of self-righteous assholes telling me how bad I fuck up and how I need to take responsibility. Porchdawg sounds like a generally good kid, you want him to willing suffer the maximum penalty under the guise that that is somehow responsible, where as I would define responsible as learning his lesson and not making the mistake twice. I don't know why you people want him to suffer so bad for something that most of you have gotten away with at some point in your life.
This kid needed help and all you could think to do was kick him while he was down.
The advise I gave was sound, it may not be pretty, but it is sound and I stand by it. That's life. The laws in my state are as I stated but most people simply do not know it. You are free to do the research yourself. I hope porchdawg gets out of his bad situation, I am sure the experience of it is bad enough.
You are right, as I posted before Canada takes it pretty seriously (100K fines), as you mentioned France takes it very seriously and I believe Germany does too. Problem we have here is too many politicians have decided DUI fines are a great revenue generator and essentially can line their pockets over the long term if people just keep doing it, be honest they really don’t want the ultimate deterrance, because if they did they could accomplish it easily enough. Maybe this belongs in the conspiracy thread.
Do you have any idea what the legal limit is in those countries? I’m curious only because I’ve been overseas and Europeans seem to drink way more than those in the states. And I saw several of them driving. I’m guessing it’s not .08 or even .10… or, if it is, it’s not heavily enforced.
Overall, I doubt the people who blow .10 or even .15 are the ones out there running over kids (in Europe or the States)… not any more so than irresponsible drivers or the sleep deprived individual.
Pat, you’re completely missing the point. No one jumped down dawg’s throat. No one gave him bad advice. Generally, the responses were quite good. Then you jumped in with comments about “finding a loophole”, etc. and a lot of us went after you. Got that? YOU, not dawg on the porch.
“If I was in a jam the last thing I need is a bunch of self-righteous assholes telling me how bad I fuck up and how I need to take responsibility.”
Who was being self-righteous? Is it self-righteous to expect people to own up to their mistakes? Is it self-righteous to applaud when a person does so? No, that’s called holding people accountable.
“…you want him to willing suffer the maximum penalty under the guise that that is somehow responsible, where as I would define responsible as learning his lesson and not making the mistake twice.”
Maximum penalty? No one said he should just roll over. Most people advised that he get a lawyer to defend him. Like Older Lifter:
“Talk to a lawyer, now!!!!!!!”
Or how about Trev:
“Please, get a lawyer and have him look into State-specific fines, penalties, and so forth; as well as the school thing. Good luck, brother.”
BostonBarrister:
“Tough lesson bro…Do talk to a lawyer pronto -- look in the yellow pages for someone who specializes in DUI defenses. Try this website: http://www.ncdd.com -- it's the website for the national college of DUI defense.”
Avoids Roids:
“…considering the fact that you passed all of the coordination tests, I would think that a decent DUI lawyer could put enough of a doubt in front of a jury about the accuracy of the test to have you acquitted.”
Yeah, everyone really put his feet to the fire, didn’t they? Sure, there were a few “grow-ups” thrown in there. If a person’s skin is so thin that they can’t take that, then tough titties to them. In stark contrast, your advice was smarmy and juvenile. Instead of getting a lawyer to make sure he gets a fair shake, you advised him to get a lawyer that would fight dirty so that he could screw the system. There’s the difference that you’re not seeing.
“This kid needed help and all you could think to do was kick him while he was down.”
Once again, in case you got a cheap seat: NO ONE WAS KICKING HIM WHEN HE WAS DOWN!! Yes, there were posts to the effect of “you’re screwed, don’t drop the soap”, but there are assholes in every crowd. The majority of the advice was sound.
“The laws in my state are as I stated but most people simply do not know it. You are free to do the research yourself.”
Oh, I see. You might want to refer to the court’s interpretation of the laws in your state, rather than what you think they means. And are you kidding me? Do the research myself? Uh, no, that’s not how it works. You make a claim, YOU provide support for it. The burden of proof is on you.
Dawg, you will look back on this as one of the best things that happened to you! You didn’t get into an accident or kill anybody. You will probably never drive drunk again. From now on you get to be the designated driver, will drive your friend’s home and may even save someone’s life.
Have you talk to a lawyer yet? If not you should, the initial visit is free.
Now the bad news. The lawyer will cost somewhere between $500 - $1,000. You are 18, the court will take your licenses probably until your 21. You "may" get it back in 6 months to drive to school and work. Your fine, DMW register and filing a SR22 will cost another $500. You will have to take AA classes cost $200. You will have to do some kind of community service from 80 - 120 hours.
You are not done yet because you have to file an SR22 your insurance company will raise you rate by $1000 dollars a year. This amount is added to your current rate. The SR22 remains on your record for seven years.
Add it up those were some expensive drinks.
There is another Terminator?Should I call myself terminator2
I had 4 shots 2 hours before leaving. I have a lawyer.
My lawyer says he can get me into an ARD program to get my record expunged. He also says it is good news that I passed the coordination tests cause they might be merciful. I will lose my liscense for 4 to 12 months.
Right on.
Not to excuse your behavior Dawg, and at the risk of sounding smarmy, whatever that is, I think your lawyer is a lousy one. Change.
since your in pa, and you’re under 21, your bac is way over the limit. you’re busted for the dui. depending on which county in pa you’re in, you might face an underage drinking charge. they will put you into ard, and your record will be expunged after you complete probation, which is one year, but usually they will let you off once your pay your fines, which will come to around 1200, an extra 250 for the underage. don’t get a lawyer unless you are going to try and plead out, which you shouldn’t do, because then you can’t get the ard. and if you are convicted, you’ll end up paying 2500+ and the lawyers fees and you’ll do jail time. your license will be suspended for 3 months, 6 months if they tack on the underage. trust me on this, i received a dui and so have three of my friends all in pa. there is nothing that a laywer can do to help you, take the suspension and fines and ard. hope this helps.