Athur jones already covered this, the idea is intensity of effort and there;s no way to guage 80% intensity of effort or 100% intensity of effort. im totally butchering what he actually said but point was that momentary muscular failure had to be achieved for the greatest stimulus of growth to occur. i have seen better recovery from short of failure training, but they were intense enough to justify the short of failure. currently i do a pullover into negative weighted chinup into deadlift superset which sores my rear delts more than my lats and biceps. i might be doing something wrong here.
True on him talking about that, the issue I have with that though are…
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It’s assuming we need to accurately measure intensity, which we don’t. As long as we break 80%, all fibers are being used in most mostly (smaller muscles hit full recruitment at 40-50% of full effort), then it’s just a matter of working the fibers enough while they are all recruited.
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No one really hits 100% effort with regular training anyway. Our actual effort levels actually vary with many factors (motivation, mood, hormones, etc.)
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the idea that effort is a stimulus when actually, effort is just our supra spinal output that increases recruitment and rate coding. Once all fibers are turned on fully, more effort only maintains the tension as fatigue increases, but doesn’t increase tension or any of the stimulation based molecules (such as mTOR, P38, etc. ). More effort does however inroad the CNS much more, similar to running your car past redline before shifting into the next gear, it merely really taxes other factors not related to hypertrophic stimulation.
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Excellent post!
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One word of caution with negative-only weighted chins or dips. The heavy weights involved, especially in supra-maximal attempts, may engage muscle spindles and Golgi Tendon organs. This tissue will inhibit muscle recruitment. I use heavy weights which are somewhat close to a maximum weight, but I still have the possibility of lifting the load concentrically.
I utilize slow to extremely slow eccentrics with long rest pauses. 3 reps with 20-30 seconds of pausing works well.
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I was doing 30-10-30 for one set…it was fairly smooth and not super slow, but consistent tempo. I then rest and do a slow set of 10 (lighter weight) and use zero momentum and go to failure. If I fail on the 10th rep, I may add weight the next week.
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Why would you need to do another 10 rep set after your 30-10-30 set? In that case you need to increase the weight, as the last 30 sec eccentric should get your attention (or even result in failure before time’s up). No further sets on a particular excercise should be needed if properly executed.
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I can see it as maybe an extra Intensifier, for like the last 2 weeks of a cycle. And also by many folks’ books, 30-10-30 is not enough volume for best hypertrophy gains. To be sure, I don’t think it could be sustained for lengthy periods.
I have rarely added a second set of 30-10-30, when the weight selected was too light. If more stimulus (volume) is needed, I added another excercise on that particular musclegroup (legs, back or chest) or chose a more specialized pre-exhaust strategy (on one musclegroup). It also needs to be taken into account, that 30-10-30 may take a couple of weeks to dial in.
In order to make hypertrophy to happen with 30-10-30, you need to apply double progression and increase reps or weight over time. I am a firm believer that strength precedes gains. I guess some trainees fail to accomplish this, why it becomes more of a maintenance approach.
It would be interesting to hear @Ellington_Darden take on this, as 30-10-30 has already shown some development progression while tested over time (namely not til failure with 1-2 reps in reserve). Any new thoughts from the creator?
I believe both strength and size increase at the same time. But how do you measure those?
Jones always thought that size came before strength. He determined this by carefully measuring his upper arms, which he could do accurately.
Your progression into 30-10-30 seems on target. I only occasionally use it with my few trainees.
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Right yes, if an increase in fiber size creates the ability to create more tension, then ‘as a muscle grows’ that growth would increase its strength. Neither could precede the other.