Are We 'Wild Monkeys'?

Off Topic
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[quote]djm_e22 wrote:
kroby wrote:
djm_e22 wrote:

You made my point exactly. Which is you need to know nothing about evolution to learn about math and science.

So, a person needs not have a rounded education, to spark that little something special that would further humankind? This is what you espouse? No future discoveries “evolving” from an accidental interest in a worthless class such as Evolution (a sub-discipline of Biology)?

You’re deeply afraid of change, aren’t you? It assaults your perception of Truth and Falsehood. “If it’s false now, how could it be true next year?” That’s the beauty of this “science”

(and yes, evolution is a science discipline - genetic markers have been mapped in specific valleys in Baja California in lizards that show mutative variations from a common ancestor in order to accomodate for species growth dependant on external - nature - variables)

that seems so worthless to you. It affords us to change our minds when new information is discovered. It also makes “you” come to the conclusion that you may be wrong about a great many things. Like your religion, right? That’s the crux! The crucible! The one in a kajillion chance that you’re (gulp) wrong.

Evolution is a very interesting topic. Heck, it was my major focus in college. Ecological impacts of Evolution across populations and their subsequent generations. When we understand how our environment affects us long term (across generations) we can be better stewards of what we have today, in order to secure a more healthy environment for tomorrow. You want your childen to be better off than us, right? Well, we impact our surroundings, and visa versa. This is evolution.

It’s not that cause I do believe you can believe in God and Evolution. Some people don’t though and if they believe Evolution is real than God can’t be. I don’t know why they think this way but alot do.

Ok Ok this is what I can accept as of right now. Things can change like humans can get smaller if for some reason babies starting taking on the smaller parents genes. Things can change due to genes, which I guess is evolution to a point. But a whale never walked on land and I never was a ape. There is now evidence somewhere in the bible that humans may have walked with the dinasours, if that ends up being true than all these dates and times that scientists have came up with just might be all wrong. The earth might have only been 10-50,000 years old.

Sorry about my dumb remark I made, I get offended to quick.[/quote]

Humans did not, under any circumstance, “walk with dinosaurs.”

Nothing in the bible can be classified as “evidence.” If you chooe to believe in the bible: great, free country. Do not for one second think that anything in it is proof of anything.

Faith and science can co-exist, but the do not co-mingle.

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[quote]djm_e22 wrote:
It’s not that cause I do believe you can believe in God and Evolution. Some people don’t though and if they believe Evolution is real than God can’t be. I don’t know why they think this way but alot do. [/quote]

Well, I believe in both.

Who said a whale has walked on land? No, you never were an ape. Except… have you ever had wild monkey sex before??? Makes you wonder, huh?

[quote]
There is now evidence somewhere in the bible that humans may have walked with the dinasours, if that ends up being true than all these dates and times that scientists have came up with just might be all wrong. The earth might have only been 10-50,000 years old.[/quote]

You mean to tell me that there’s been a new section of the Bible found? Astounding! Pre-Noah, for sure, but… wow! Dinasaurs aren’t in my King James version. Anywhere. Crocodiles, yes. T-Rex’s, No.

I wasn’t offended at all, no worries.

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[quote]kroby wrote:
djm_e22 wrote:
It’s not that cause I do believe you can believe in God and Evolution. Some people don’t though and if they believe Evolution is real than God can’t be. I don’t know why they think this way but alot do.

Well, I believe in both.

But a whale never walked on land and I never was a ape.

Who said a whale has walked on land? No, you never were an ape. Except… have you ever had wild monkey sex before??? Makes you wonder, huh?

There is now evidence somewhere in the bible that humans may have walked with the dinasours, if that ends up being true than all these dates and times that scientists have came up with just might be all wrong. The earth might have only been 10-50,000 years old.

You mean to tell me that there’s been a new section of the Bible found? Astounding! Pre-Noah, for sure, but… wow! Dinasaurs aren’t in my King James version. Anywhere. Crocodiles, yes. T-Rex’s, No.

Sorry about my dumb remark I made, I get offended to quick.

I wasn’t offended at all, no worries.[/quote]

Here was the point I was making. I believe evolutionists think land came first. There is some whale that has two 4 inch long bones that are used for reproducing. Well evolutionists tryed saying this is proof that shows the whale was once on land cause most likey these bones were once legs. The guy that didn’t belive in evolution said I would have like to see this 20 ton whales walking on these tiny legs.

alot of them assume it was a crocodile but the more they look into it, it just might not have been

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[quote]djm_e22 wrote:

But a whale never walked on land and I never was a ape.[/quote]

Then you agree with Evolution theory. If a whale walked on land or if humans came from apes, it would be proof of a divine force and not science. That’s not what the theory of evolution is.

[quote]
There is now evidence somewhere in the bible that humans may have walked with the dinasours, if that ends up being true than all these dates and times that scientists have came up with just might be all wrong. The earth might have only been 10-50,000 years old.[/quote]

Are you a young-earther? That may explain your posts. You’re welcome to your beliefs, but so is ever one. That means the young earth faith is just as valid the Hindi story that the universe is only the dream of a god and is near infinite years old. Faith makes them equal. Science, however, deals with objective evidence.

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[quote]djm_e22 wrote:

Here was the point I was making. I believe evolutionists think land came first. There is some whale that has two 4 inch long bones that are used for reproducing. Well evolutionists tryed saying this is proof that shows the whale was once on land cause most likey these bones were once legs. The guy that didn’t belive in evolution said I would have like to see this 20 ton whales walking on these tiny legs.
[/quote]

Two things wrong with that. 1. I don’t think you’d find a respectable evolutionist that would say life began on land. 2. Those legs, which are still being debated in science (which is the beauty of science, nothing is ever certain), would have been larger in the time when they are used and the “whale” would have been smaller.[quote]

alot of them assume it was a crocodile but the more they look into it, it just might not have been
http://www.clarifyingchristian… [/quote]

I’d question that source. There’s been talk about peer reviewed work here and there. The only peer review journals out there are the Scientific industry journals, such as Nature.

66

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Djm,

Whoa! Let’s be peaceful — you’re getting all worked up. Please remember: the purpose of the thread I started here was to try and determine what, if anything, is unique about us. (Perhaps it IS our ability just to have the concept of God. Or having an ‘ideal self’ we aspire to.) I’m still searching. Challenging others to fight you is making the case for the ‘wild monkeys’.

Peace, bro.

HH[/quote]

it’s wild apes H2, wild apes!

I agree, the fighting challenge is silly and doesn’t help to dispel the idea that humans are nothing more than savages hiding underneath a thin veneer of intelligence…

enough with the stupid internet tough guy shit!

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[quote]djm_e22 wrote:
I noticed all the non-believers keep calling me an idiot or stupid like little boys and girls do. They can’t have a decent debate. I know as well as God knows I am not perfect so ya’ll are starting to piss me off and I would more than be glad to take this to a LEGAL charity UFC style fight. Also I just want to see what I can do, come on I only weigh 155lbs and ya’ll are in the 200 plus pound range. You couldn’t possibly lose. God forgive me I’m not perfect.[/quote]

DJM, there is no decent debate with people that reject the concept of logic and science.

You are welcome to your beliefs and your opinions, but you are sadly lacking in the ability to back them up without sounding foolish.

68

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Djm,

Whoa! Let’s be peaceful — you’re getting all worked up. Please remember: the purpose of the thread I started here was to try and determine what, if anything, is unique about us. (Perhaps it IS our ability just to have the concept of God. Or having an ‘ideal self’ we aspire to.) I’m still searching. Challenging others to fight you is making the case for the ‘wild monkeys’.

Peace, bro.

HH[/quote]

Potential to do great, incredible things. We’re the only species that has actually come up with the means to eliminate itself in a day (not great, but pretty incredible).

The idea of God, the concept of a higher power, and the realization and struggle with the fact that we must die. I think that’s what sets us apart.

On the other hand, I do think that as a whole, we’re kind of like refined savages. We still want to kill each other, but we’ve come up with crazy ways to do it. Yet, at the same time that there are men killing each other because some government or book told them to, there are people trying to cure cancer and writing books on wether or not we even exist.

All in all, I’m impressed with us. Remarkable.

69

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
The idea of God, the concept of a higher power, and the realization and struggle with the fact that we must die. I think that’s what sets us apart.[/quote]

I’ve heard that one tossed about before. And while I agree it’s probably true, to actually be able to state it as a singular acheivement, we’d have to figure out how to communicate sufficiently with other species to determine if it’s so. :slight_smile:

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I have also read that there are other animals who realize that they will die; we just realize it at a much earlier age.

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So in true evolutionary fashion wouldn’t it be safe to assume that as of present day the human body is “designed” for survival of a much more difficult time. If you rewind only 200 years which is a micro-second on the evolutionary scale humans encountered many more hardships. In todays society with everything being so easily accessible and a lot of people not having to physically exert themselves at all, in the next thousand or ten thousand years will we see a major change in the human body? Perhaps very small and frail people. What I am asking is if technology pulled WAY ahead of evolution what happens when evolution catches up?

72

[quote]E-man wrote:
So in true evolutionary fashion wouldn’t it be safe to assume that as of present day the human body is “designed” for survival of a much more difficult time. If you rewind only 200 years which is a micro-second on the evolutionary scale humans encountered many more hardships. In todays society with everything being so easily accessible and a lot of people not having to physically exert themselves at all, in the next thousand or ten thousand years will we see a major change in the human body? Perhaps very small and frail people. What I am asking is if technology pulled WAY ahead of evolution what happens when evolution catches up?[/quote]

Which would explain why most Alien sightings depict small, skinny bodies with large heads.

I think we were just planted here by another advanced alien race so they could observe our world.

Maybe they already had a nuclear holocost that destroyed their recorded history so they want to study us in it’s place.

That would explain why we’re so far ahead of other animals. We’re the primitave form of a highly developed alien race.

73

[quote]SWR-1222D wrote:
E-man wrote:
So in true evolutionary fashion wouldn’t it be safe to assume that as of present day the human body is “designed” for survival of a much more difficult time. If you rewind only 200 years which is a micro-second on the evolutionary scale humans encountered many more hardships. In todays society with everything being so easily accessible and a lot of people not having to physically exert themselves at all, in the next thousand or ten thousand years will we see a major change in the human body? Perhaps very small and frail people. What I am asking is if technology pulled WAY ahead of evolution what happens when evolution catches up?

Which would explain why most Alien sightings depict small, skinny bodies with large heads.

I think we were just planted here by another advanced alien race so they could observe our world.

Maybe they already had a nuclear holocost that destroyed their recorded history so they want to study us in it’s place.

That would explain why we’re so far ahead of other animals. We’re the primitave form of a highly developed alien race.[/quote]

There are people who think that aliens are us in the future after we’ve invented time travel.

Out there, of course, but still an interesting thought.

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Whats really cool, is that all this debate is going on - in a language that evolved from the need of a social-minded beastie to tell the others where the ripe fruit is.
Another item that i believe sets us apart from the ‘lower orders’ is the ‘ability’ to confuse the label with the thing. The symbol for the thing is not the thing.

very important.
please reflect.

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While reflecting, I think it’s interesting that most people generally can’t shut up.

No, I’m not insulting anyone in particular, but we have to talk. If we have a secret, we have to tell someone. If we have dirt, scoop, gossip, news or whatever, we need to spread it.

Of course, this is great on a survival front when everybody gets to hear about where the clean fresh water is, where the warm cave is, where the food grows, where the dangerous wild animals live, how to make a blanket, how to farm, blacksmith, read, whatever.

Spreading the news of significant good or bad things around us is a collectively rewarding process.

76

[quote]E-man wrote:
In todays society with everything being so easily accessible and a lot of people not having to physically exert themselves at all, in the next thousand or ten thousand years will we see a major change in the human body? [/quote]

No. Ten thousand years isn’t enough time to significantly evolve any major physical changes. I say this because look to ten thousand years ago, which was more or less when people started living in large groups. Sure, resistances to disease and certain environment-driven chemical changes have occured, but our bodies are interchangeable with someone living back then, or even 250,000 years ago.

If the data I remember is correct, it took somewhere on the order of 2 million years for isolation and climatic change to bring about the physical differences in our current “races”, and we’re still all homo sapiens sapiens, able to interbreed and everything.

The thing is, we’re still using our 2 million-year-old, hunter-gatherer, just-stopped-climbing-trees-so-we-have-no-prehensile-toes-but-we-still-have-knees-that-bend-backwards-so-we-can’t-run-worth-a-shit bodies.

Good question. There was a special on the History Channel a few months ago that pondered this. Had good CGI mock-ups of what people might come to look like over the next million or so years, inhabiting other planets and such; really fascinating stuff.

Personally, I think physical changes to our bodies will happen even more slowly in the future than they did to our ancestors, simply because nearly all of our technological innovations focus on keeping us comfortable using the bodies we possess now. Example: A major (well, major to humans, apparently) change like less melanin in the skin to better produce vitamin D due to lack of sunlight took hundreds of thousands of years to occur where people lived mostly outdoors and followed herds. With how much time the average person spends outside today, how long do you think it would take to occur, if ever? Just a little food for thought.

I’ll see if I can’t find that show and post a link so you can check it out.

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Excellent answer, chainsaw.

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[quote]oboffill wrote:
harris447 wrote:
oboffill wrote:
I used to believe in evolution just because it was being taught as “science.” If it’s science, it must be true right? HA!

Truth is that we haven’t been able to prove evolution nor creation. We don’t know how the fuck we came to be.

Pick one or pick none, it doesn’t matter.

Yes, we do know how we came to be.

THAT we evolved is a fact. Exactly HOW it happened is a theory. A theory and which has held up under one hundred years of testing and scrutiny.

Let’s not start this again.

You are wrong.

Kent Hovind does 700 debates a year on creation vs evolution. 3000 professors have refused to debate him. Noone has been able to give conclusive evidence that evolution exists.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-569281398764731153[/quote]

Surely he has run out then?

Get him onto dawkins. Also, has teh opposite been true, that he has been able to argue that evolution has never existed.

I doubt it.

79

[quote]Digital Chainsaw wrote:
E-man wrote:
In todays society with everything being so easily accessible and a lot of people not having to physically exert themselves at all, in the next thousand or ten thousand years will we see a major change in the human body?

No. Ten thousand years isn’t enough time to significantly evolve any major physical changes. I say this because look to ten thousand years ago, which was more or less when people started living in large groups. Sure, resistances to disease and certain environment-driven chemical changes have occured, but our bodies are interchangeable with someone living back then, or even 250,000 years ago.

If the data I remember is correct, it took somewhere on the order of 2 million years for isolation and climatic change to bring about the physical differences in our current “races”, and we’re still all homo sapiens sapiens, able to interbreed and everything.

The thing is, we’re still using our 2 million-year-old, hunter-gatherer, just-stopped-climbing-trees-so-we-have-no-prehensile-toes-but-we-still-have-knees-that-bend-backwards-so-we-can’t-run-worth-a-shit bodies.

What I am asking is if technology pulled WAY ahead of evolution what happens when evolution catches up?

Good question. There was a special on the History Channel a few months ago that pondered this. Had good CGI mock-ups of what people might come to look like over the next million or so years, inhabiting other planets and such; really fascinating stuff.

Personally, I think physical changes to our bodies will happen even more slowly in the future than they did to our ancestors, simply because nearly all of our technological innovations focus on keeping us comfortable using the bodies we possess now. Example: A major (well, major to humans, apparently) change like less melanin in the skin to better produce vitamin D due to lack of sunlight took hundreds of thousands of years to occur where people lived mostly outdoors and followed herds. With how much time the average person spends outside today, how long do you think it would take to occur, if ever? Just a little food for thought.

I’ll see if I can’t find that show and post a link so you can check it out.
[/quote]

I’m not going to mess with this anymore. You tell me that I can’t listen to what ya’ll say, well ya’ll are the same way towards me, otherwise we both wouldn’t be argueing. Also Chainsaw and everyone else is going to believe the numbers and everything that is in the textbook because you, even though it might be a harsh word, are brainwashed by the textbook cause you grew up learning exactly what was in there and it is hard to believe anything else. Just as I might be brainwashed by the Bible. I don’t think everything is wrong in the textbook but everything surely aint right either.

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[quote]djm_e22 wrote:

I’m not going to mess with this anymore. You tell me that I can’t listen to what ya’ll say, well ya’ll are the same way towards me, otherwise we both wouldn’t be argueing. Also Chainsaw and everyone else is going to believe the numbers and everything that is in the textbook because you, even though it might be a harsh word, are brainwashed by the textbook cause you grew up learning exactly what was in there and it is hard to believe anything else. Just as I might be brainwashed by the Bible. I don’t think everything is wrong in the textbook but everything surely aint right either.[/quote]

“That’s funny, I don’t remember asking you a GODdamn thing!”

-Samuel L. Jackson