[quote]Oleena wrote:
I asked why they were unique and what about that uniqueness deserves the special, superior rights that they often give themselves above the other creatures.[/quote]
…why would humans have to be unique to give themselves superior rights?
There are plenty of reasons humans would want to grant these rights to other humans, but have no need to grant them to animals.
This is a fairly mild example too I wish I could have found the first one I was thinking of where a group of dolphins torture a porpoise to death. This behavior certainly extends far beyond any primitive survival instincts.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
I think we have developed a social standard which is to minimize human exposure to the torturing of animals because it desensitizes us. Ie torturing animals is “immoral” because it pollutes us psychologically.[/quote]
Perhaps you didn’t see it, but I asked you prior what constitutes “abuse” or “torture” to you. One man’s abuse is another man’s sport.[/quote]
Torture would be increasing or extending pain. [/quote]
So anything short of increasing or extending pain for the sole sake of doing so is not abuse? Because at one end of the spectrum, you’d have those that argue strenuously that any form of hunting for sport is abuse or torture or, “wrong”. Horse drawn carriages - “cruel”. Farm raised animals? Cruel. What is actual abuse in your opinion?[/quote]
Torture would be increasing or extending pain for its own sake, or personal pleasure, OR without a good reason-sorry morals are situational.[/quote]
So lets say I tormented a mans body to save his eternal soul.
Torture or not?
[/quote]
Let me think about it. Meanwhile would it be torture to cause pain in extracting a bullet or cancerous tumor?
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
I think we have developed a social standard which is to minimize human exposure to the torturing of animals because it desensitizes us. Ie torturing animals is “immoral” because it pollutes us psychologically.[/quote]
Perhaps you didn’t see it, but I asked you prior what constitutes “abuse” or “torture” to you. One man’s abuse is another man’s sport.[/quote]
Torture would be increasing or extending pain. [/quote]
So anything short of increasing or extending pain for the sole sake of doing so is not abuse? Because at one end of the spectrum, you’d have those that argue strenuously that any form of hunting for sport is abuse or torture or, “wrong”. Horse drawn carriages - “cruel”. Farm raised animals? Cruel. What is actual abuse in your opinion?[/quote]
Torture would be increasing or extending pain for its own sake, or personal pleasure, OR without a good reason-sorry morals are situational.[/quote]
So lets say I tormented a mans body to save his eternal soul.
Torture or not?
[/quote]
Let me think about it. Meanwhile would it be torture to cause pain in extracting a bullet or cancerous tumor? [/quote]
Do you do it with the others consent or without?
[quote]Deorum wrote:
This is a fairly mild example too I wish I could have found the first one I was thinking of where a group of dolphins torture a porpoise to death. This behavior certainly extends far beyond any primitive survival instincts. [/quote]
So what you are demonstrating is that wild animals will kill for no reason.
I agree.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Deorum wrote:
This is a fairly mild example too I wish I could have found the first one I was thinking of where a group of dolphins torture a porpoise to death. This behavior certainly extends far beyond any primitive survival instincts. [/quote]
So what you are demonstrating is that wild animals will kill for no reason.
I agree.[/quote]
Is that what you saw? I saw a highly orchestrated attack on a member of their own tribe. Then to top it off one of the chimps demonstrated such higher understanding and empathy(a trait normally reserved for humans) to actually protect the wounded chimp in the face of his entire tribe.
If that attack looked like it had no reasoning behind it you need not even reply to me… How any body could have gotten that from that video is literally beyond me.
When I see chimps I see such a eery resemblance to humans in both aesthetics and behaviors that it nearly knocks me on my fucking ass.
I am just wondering what the point of posting the video was. To prove that some humans and chimps have the same animal impulses? Again, I agree with you.
I try not to interact with wild animals whenever possible – human or otherwise.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:<<< I try not to interact with wild animals whenever possible – human or otherwise.[/quote]Stay away from Detroit.
[quote]Deorum wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Deorum wrote:
This is a fairly mild example too I wish I could have found the first one I was thinking of where a group of dolphins torture a porpoise to death. This behavior certainly extends far beyond any primitive survival instincts. [/quote]
So what you are demonstrating is that wild animals will kill for no reason.
I agree.[/quote]
Is that what you saw? I saw a highly orchestrated attack on a member of their own tribe. Then to top it off one of the chimps demonstrated such higher understanding and empathy(a trait normally reserved for humans) to actually protect the wounded chimp in the face of his entire tribe.
If that attack looked like it had no reasoning behind it you need not even reply to me… How any body could have gotten that from that video is literally beyond me.
When I see chimps I see such a eery resemblance to humans in both aesthetics and behaviors that it nearly knocks me on my fucking ass. [/quote]
On the topic of orchestrated torture, there are too many examples of chimpanzees carefully planned power-related battles to count. However, the one that has stuck with me the most was case of what happened when the two second-most-powerful chimpanzees of a captive group being studied escaped from their cage in the middle of the night and attacked leader, who was being kept separate. They held him down, after beating the shit out him, ripped holes in his testicle skin, and took their contents out. The researchers found him unconscious the next morning in a pool of his own blood, with holes in his testicles.
the only thing that makes humans different than any other specie on the planet is our ability to make complex tools.
here’s one of them: superlatives are a linguistic construction (just like truth and falsity; causation; dick jokes…) and cannot be said to be conditions of “The World”. they are descriptors to organize our experience so that we can communicate it (our perception of our experience) to others and then we can make tools about it.
guy 1: “dude, my girlfriend is mad at me…”
guy 2: “that sucks, bro. here, smoke this blunt.”
it’s pretty arrogant to assume that because we can wax poetic about stuff and chronicle history and buy gold and journal about masturbating that we’re somehow “different” or “better” than any other specie. we’ve just managed to complicate our lives so much that we’ve become totally distracted from what is important:
eat, sleep, fuck; in every order possible.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Man’s dominion over the earth does not extend to the right to wreak destruction for the sake of mere greed, laziness or carelessness. I do not also however believe that man will be allowed to destroy this planet. There are fine lines in both of these.[/quote]
No other animal has developed what humans have developed here:
The Pet Trade.
( or The Pet Industry - I wonder how many animals have been killed, maimed and compromised for the sake of our puppy “love”. And how much is the industry taking each ear in sales; including veterinarian services.).
Domination and control masqueraded as love.
…and the purchase of unconditional love in the “puppy eyes”…( self-serving ).
Who said you can’t buy me love?
Maybe God would be appalled at man treating love as commodity by developing a whole industry to supply the demand for inter species bonding ( or is it bondage?).
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
“I matter to me because without me nothing could matter to me.” I think we take this and sentiment and expand it to incorporate our families. From there we may expand it to further our immediate communities, ethnic groups, etc. At some point the sentiment has been applied to a huge piece (or perhaps all) of humanity. At this point it has become diluted and is obviously much weaker than in its original form. Selfishness is powerful and has strong moral, philosophical, and scientific justifications.
I think in the end we think of ourselves as special because a world in which we didn’t would be a terrible place to live.[/quote]
Or because G-d freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life.[/quote]
For those who believe in a God interested in human affairs, yes. Many don’t.[/quote]
Okay, because we have consciousness, free wills, and language.
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
there is something humans do very well, that animals don’t do. They kill and murder for pleasure, while animals kill only to survive. [/quote]
Incorrect, male lions kill hyenas for ‘fun.’ They won’t even look at a hyena after it has broken its neck, pure game.
[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
I think the play is apart of hunting practice, which is still apart of survival. I’ve never heard of a non-hunting animal playing like this. Play is also social, which is also a part of survival.[/quote]
Scientist “think” it may be a form of practice, but they don’t know. It could also be killer whale’s version of “for shits and giggles” too.[/quote]
Okay I will agree that it could be for “shits and giggles” but isn’t it beneficial to do things just for fun? Isn’t fun good for their health too?[/quote]
Yeah, I got a club and a helicopter, let’s go find some baby seals.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
I think the play is apart of hunting practice, which is still apart of survival. I’ve never heard of a non-hunting animal playing like this. Play is also social, which is also a part of survival.[/quote]
Scientist “think” it may be a form of practice, but they don’t know. It could also be killer whale’s version of “for shits and giggles” too.[/quote]
Okay I will agree that it could be for “shits and giggles” but isn’t it beneficial to do things just for fun? Isn’t fun good for their health too?[/quote]
Yeah, I got a club and a helicopter, let’s go find some baby seals.[/quote]
I think we missed the baby seal hunt by a couple of decades in Canada.
Can we still ride around in the helicopter?