I’m about to start TRT for the first time. 38 years old with TT of 278ng/dL.
After doing the requisite research over the past few months, I’ve noticed a common piece of advice for beginners is to start modest and titrate up if needed/desired. That makes sense.
I’ve also recognized the ongoing debate between starting straight off with hCG + Test vs just starting with Test and seeing how you respond.
But as someone who wants a chance to experience the purported benefits of hCG, I don’t understand the point of just starting with Test only?
The common advice I’ve seen is to ‘dial in your test dose’ before you start with hCG. But I don’t understand how this is possible. Once you add hCG you will no longer be ‘dialed’ on Test anymore right? You will need to dial in both the Test and hCG in unison?
This all being said, I do recognize and understand that the combination of the common prescription of 100-200mg/week of Test + 750-1000IU/week of hCG could be much too high for most men.
So rather than just starting with test and adding in hCG, I was thinking that perhaps a modest dose of both would be a good way to start?
What are your thoughts on this weekly protocol?
70mg Test (~24mg pinned IM 3x week)
500IU hCG (250IU pinned sub-Q 2x week)
I figure if I respond well to this I can either continue it indefinitely or increase dosage slowly and gauge response.
Avoid the concept of “dialing in”. In other words, focusing on a number. If you feel good, with results you are looking to achieve, without adverse effects, don’t worry about the number.
The vast majority take more than 70mg a week. I usually start guys between 120-160mg/week, towards the higher side. I think starting that much lower is a waste of time, but nothing wrong with at if that is where you are comfortable.
As for hCG, two reasons to take it. You are actively trying to conceive, or you are concerned with testicular atrophy. That’s it. If someone not knowing you were taking hCG somehow tested for it, the results would start the search for a hormone producing tumor. Think testicular cancer.
If you want it, someone will sell it to you. I see men all the time, transferring from other clinics, that have had vasectomies, and are taking hCG having been told they needed to “keep the testicles working.” Seriously, even older men, 50s and 60s, they are happy to cut that expense.
Regardless, if for some reason you were inclined to try it, I’d wait. You may find yourself feeling great on testosterone and not want to screw with it.
Good luck. With your level, you should feel much better with a decent dose of testosterone.
What about the increase in libido and increased penile sensitivity from HCG? I dont have any libido on Testosterone alone, irrespective of ester, dose or frequency. Bring in HCG, it comes back within weeks.
If nothing else has helped and it works for you, then I would take it. I’ve seen that with a handful of guys. Obviously, that’s rare. Very few guys on TRT rely on hCG for those benefits. Of the thousands of men on TRT with their primary or a urologist, how many are also using hCG?
By the way, I have seen guys that had ED on hCG. At least it started upon taking hCG and discontinued immediately when they stopped it. Again, very rare. Outliers on each end of the spectrum.
Very interesting, thanks for the info. Of those who had ED on HCG, do you think this was simply due to an increase in E2, or something else from the HCG that was throwing things off?
I must admit, I have noticed a decrease in erectile quality since adding HCG back in, i assumed it would be the increase in E2 that I would then have to manage (bloods at the end of the month to confirm), but interesting that it could be due to something else in the action of HCG itself.
I don’t know. Frustrating. I do know for certain it was not elevated estradiol in a couple of them. Common sense would dictate that hCG was the cause, I would love to know the mechanism behind it. Some will tell you hCG improves erectile function.
I guess this would present a good reason (in response to the OPs query above) as to why you would get settled on T alone, to the point where everything is working, and then add HCG later on to experiement. If symptoms arise a few weeks after starting HCG, we then know the cause for sure.
I was taking 80 mg/wk EOD, now on 63 mg/wk and feel better and much less side effects. i had a recent setback after a year and it was because my free T jump about 30 percent. SHBG lowered and my doctor was not surprised at all. If you feel good then that is the dose that works for you. Too high and anger issues for me surface along with sleep, fatigue, and spaciness. 70 mg/wk seems reasonable to me but I know here on this site that is not a popular recommendation. No matter what you decide you have to give it time before you adjust again. I have seem people on 50 mg/wk and some as low as 35 mg/wk so lower amounts are not unheard of. I think the philosophy is go as high as you can if you don’t have side effects but some side effects are hard to percieve like anger and irritability unless someone tells you that you are being an asshole.
Sorry, but i don’t have a new level yet since it’s only been 3 weeks. Here are the levels at 80 mg/wk. I was at 180 (max 240) free T trough, so doctor said peak was probably 210ish. TT was 660 (max upper 800’s). TT didn’t seem to change much from summer but my free jumped about 30% hence all of the side effects. I can tell you levels in the upper range just don’t work for me. In the past when I was using cream I had a peak of 150 and felt great with amazing sleep. So I’d like to get back to around that.
It has been 3 weeks since lowering and last night was the best sleep yet. Deep with lots of dreaming. Workouts are much better too. I am sharper mentally, morning and night wood, sex drive just feels normal. I was gettig too obssessed with sex. Felt unnatural at close to 60 and the anger wasn’t cool. Feeling better wasn’t linear but after lowering or raising the dose always takes time. I have a different opinion on running high levels compared to most. Like I mentioned before I really was irritable at high levels and after doing some research there are a lot of wives who have said thre husbands turned into assholes at higher levels. Not sure going higher is the answer and just because you can tolerate it doesn’t mean it’s a good thing for overall health. That is just my opinion based on how much T we naturally produce a day when healthy. Not the popular opinion here though. Plus I want to be healthy and at 6’2’’ and 195 lbs I feel that is good for me and maybe a little heavy as I couldn’t care less about bulking up. Bulking up doesn’t make me feel good about myself but again, that is ME and everyone has their own body positive image they want or need.
I have thought about adding hcg in the future but I have functioned well at T alone. Just thought the boys could use a little pump plus the upstream hormone help may help tweak it a bit.
You ever took roids or done any cycles? I really wonder if that is the limiting factor for us who get on TRT later on in life.
Like getting on TRT in your mid 30s, you are going to have limitations as opposed to the juice heads that had already fried themselves for a decade or more. For them 1000 TT on trough is no problem.
Besides physique I just simply don’t get any of these benefits of libido or energy or anything on liberal TRT doses, and I mean 140-200 nothing insane like 250mg a week. Things even get worse let alone no extra benefit.
Well, back in the 80’s I took some oral steroids from a friend for 2 months, low dose. That is it but it appears I have had some genetic low LH for a very long time (secondary hypo). My pituitary just puts out so little. My nuts are fine apparently but at this age we just started pure Test. I had problems with anixety at times throughout my life but it is totally gone when my test levels are such that I don’t have sides. I even said to my doctor so this is what it is like to feel normal.
It is an interesting point that maybe younger juice heads have somehow less limitations but seems like they still complain of libido issues.
I definitely get worse at high doses and for me that is even 80 mg/wk. At least over time my free rose so I have a pretty good idea what free levels cause me issues. Years ago I had a total of 140 and a free of 50 (minimum of 48). Doctor wouldn’t treat me which was a mistake so I lost over 10 years taking anti-anxiety meds.
It alwasy seemed counterintuitive to me for people to be taking twice or more than what we normally put out naturally. Are they chasing a feeling that doesn’t exist? I don’t know but I’ll adjust based on sides and especially my sleep. I won’t test levels for some time but when I do I will post.
250 mg/wk would mess me up, I’d be useless and probably end up in jail. that said 100 mg/wk is insane for me. I would definitely be supraphysical and that isn’t good for me. Hey, maybe we are lucky if we can inject less and get benefits.
Don’t get stuck on dose, dose is irrelevant. The free T your protocol produces is all that matters and the only thing you should compare with others. I had lower levels at 140 mg weekly (168 pg/ml free T) than you had at 80 mg.
What a long useless rant lol. I am basing my opinion based off of reading the boards. And what works for YOU seems to directly correlate to what I said
Just like what works for ME, and HIM correlates with what I said as well. That’s what the boards are for after all right? To have a discussion, pose questions possibly have answers or hypothesize some answers?
