Anyone Interested in a Serious Religious Debate?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

The issue they have is that once you start questioning one part of the Bible, you inevitably question the other parts. [/quote]

You are correct to a certain extent here, Schmak. If one is going to toss Genesis he certainly well ought to toss the rest too. Why not? [quote]

Why evolution gets under their skin so badly is simply for the fact that it refutes the literal interpretation of the opening passages of their Mother Goose rip off.[/quote]

No, actually the main reason evolution is inconsistent with any valid interpretation of Scripture is evolution is a story of death. Lots of death. For millions of years. The Scripture from Genesis to Revelation unquestionably teaches that death is a direct result of man’s sin.

If man’s sin and its consequence of death is a myth then the story of redemption, THE theme of the Bible, is worthless. Completely worthless. And people like you are then justified in your insolent chortling.[/quote]

Your fear of death is childish and amusing.

42

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Aren’t your parents Hindu, or something? Do I have you mixed up with someone else?

Makavali wrote:
Not seeing your point.[/quote]

Didn’t make one, yet. Was asking if my memory was correct. So, is it?

43

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I’ve always wondered where it says in the bible that evolution couldn’t possibly be the methodology that God used to create modern man and the other life on this planet. I mean… can you really take everything in genesis word for word literally?

Divinely inspired or not, how would people born before Jesus know how to describe the precise mechanisms that God used to make all the creatures on Earth?[/quote]

A perfectly acceptable view.

44

[quote]pushharder wrote:
No, actually the main reason evolution is inconsistent with any valid interpretation of Scripture is evolution is a story of death. Lots of death. For millions of years. The Scripture from Genesis to Revelation unquestionably teaches that death is a direct result of man’s sin.

If man’s sin and its consequence of death is a myth then the story of redemption, THE theme of the Bible, is worthless. Completely worthless. And people like you are then justified in your insolent chortling.[/quote]

So it’s not evolution or natural selection per se that conflicts with your faith, rather, it’s when those concepts are applied to the origins of man? Certainly the deaths of lower animals have nothing to do with sin and redemption?

I’m just trying to understand. The last time we had this discussion, you didn’t raise this particular point.

45

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Your fear of death is childish and amusing.[/quote]

I don’t get it. Unless you have some belief about the afterlife, what’s not to be afraid of?

46

[quote]tom8658 wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Your fear of death is childish and amusing.[/quote]

I don’t get it. Unless you have some belief about the afterlife, what’s not to be afraid of?[/quote]

Have you ever gone to sleep and not had any dreams? If that’s what being dead is like, thats certainly not so scary.

47

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]tom8658 wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Your fear of death is childish and amusing.[/quote]

I don’t get it. Unless you have some belief about the afterlife, what’s not to be afraid of?[/quote]

Have you ever gone to sleep and not had any dreams? If that’s what being dead is like, thats certainly not so scary.[/quote]

No, but the concept of going to sleep and not dreaming forever certainly is, especially if you like being awake.

48

[quote]tom8658 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]tom8658 wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Your fear of death is childish and amusing.[/quote]

I don’t get it. Unless you have some belief about the afterlife, what’s not to be afraid of?[/quote]

Have you ever gone to sleep and not had any dreams? If that’s what being dead is like, thats certainly not so scary.[/quote]

No, but the concept of going to sleep and not dreaming forever certainly is, especially if you like being awake.[/quote]

Yeah, but once you’re there, you wont be afraid because you won’t have the capacity to experience fear.

49

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]tom8658 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]tom8658 wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Your fear of death is childish and amusing.[/quote]

I don’t get it. Unless you have some belief about the afterlife, what’s not to be afraid of?[/quote]

Have you ever gone to sleep and not had any dreams? If that’s what being dead is like, thats certainly not so scary.[/quote]

No, but the concept of going to sleep and not dreaming forever certainly is, especially if you like being awake.[/quote]

Yeah, but once you’re there, you wont be afraid because you won’t have the capacity to experience fear.[/quote]

Your argument is circular.

Some people are afraid of death because they’re afraid of leaving the known for the unknown and (scientifically speaking) the unknowable. Some people are afraid to die because they haven’t done all the things they wanted to do in life. Is that childish? Being so paralyzed by your fear that you don’t enjoy life certainly is, but I don’t think that’s what we’re talking about.

Personally, I’m afraid that when you die, you have to wait tables at lunchtime in a strip club in Gary, Indiana for all eternity.

50

[quote]tom8658 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]tom8658 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]tom8658 wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Your fear of death is childish and amusing.[/quote]

I don’t get it. Unless you have some belief about the afterlife, what’s not to be afraid of?[/quote]

Have you ever gone to sleep and not had any dreams? If that’s what being dead is like, thats certainly not so scary.[/quote]

No, but the concept of going to sleep and not dreaming forever certainly is, especially if you like being awake.[/quote]

Yeah, but once you’re there, you wont be afraid because you won’t have the capacity to experience fear.[/quote]

Your argument is circular.

Some people are afraid of death because they’re afraid of leaving the known for the unknown and (scientifically speaking) the unknowable. Some people are afraid to die because they haven’t done all the things they wanted to do in life. Is that childish? Being so paralyzed by your fear that you don’t enjoy life certainly is, but I don’t think that’s what we’re talking about.

Personally, I’m afraid that when you die, you have to wait tables at lunchtime in a strip club in Gary, Indiana for all eternity.[/quote]

Its circular, sure, but you asked how someone could not be afraid of death.

I think being afraid of not doing things in life is different than fearing what happens after you die, seems we were looking at two different things. Its not childish, I don’t think, to want to accomplish certain things and have some discomfort at the thought of never doing so.

Nor is it childish to worry about the unknown, I guess. I was really just addressing the question of how someone could see death in a way that didn’t make them afraid for what happens after.

51

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]tom8658 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]tom8658 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]tom8658 wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Your fear of death is childish and amusing.[/quote]

I don’t get it. Unless you have some belief about the afterlife, what’s not to be afraid of?[/quote]

Have you ever gone to sleep and not had any dreams? If that’s what being dead is like, thats certainly not so scary.[/quote]

No, but the concept of going to sleep and not dreaming forever certainly is, especially if you like being awake.[/quote]

Yeah, but once you’re there, you wont be afraid because you won’t have the capacity to experience fear.[/quote]

Your argument is circular.

Some people are afraid of death because they’re afraid of leaving the known for the unknown and (scientifically speaking) the unknowable. Some people are afraid to die because they haven’t done all the things they wanted to do in life. Is that childish? Being so paralyzed by your fear that you don’t enjoy life certainly is, but I don’t think that’s what we’re talking about.

Personally, I’m afraid that when you die, you have to wait tables at lunchtime in a strip club in Gary, Indiana for all eternity.[/quote]

Its circular, sure, but you asked how someone could not be afraid of death.

I think being afraid of not doing things in life is different than fearing what happens after you die, seems we were looking at two different things. Its not childish, I don’t think, to want to accomplish certain things and have some discomfort at the thought of never doing so.

Nor is it childish to worry about the unknown, I guess. I was really just addressing the question of how someone could see death in a way that didn’t make them afraid for what happens after.[/quote]

That makes sense, thanks for clarifying.

I intended my original post to address what I thought was a specious comment by Makavali, I could have made that clearer.

52

[quote]tom8658 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]tom8658 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]tom8658 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]tom8658 wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Your fear of death is childish and amusing.[/quote]

I don’t get it. Unless you have some belief about the afterlife, what’s not to be afraid of?[/quote]

Have you ever gone to sleep and not had any dreams? If that’s what being dead is like, thats certainly not so scary.[/quote]

No, but the concept of going to sleep and not dreaming forever certainly is, especially if you like being awake.[/quote]

Yeah, but once you’re there, you wont be afraid because you won’t have the capacity to experience fear.[/quote]

Your argument is circular.

Some people are afraid of death because they’re afraid of leaving the known for the unknown and (scientifically speaking) the unknowable. Some people are afraid to die because they haven’t done all the things they wanted to do in life. Is that childish? Being so paralyzed by your fear that you don’t enjoy life certainly is, but I don’t think that’s what we’re talking about.

Personally, I’m afraid that when you die, you have to wait tables at lunchtime in a strip club in Gary, Indiana for all eternity.[/quote]

Its circular, sure, but you asked how someone could not be afraid of death.

I think being afraid of not doing things in life is different than fearing what happens after you die, seems we were looking at two different things. Its not childish, I don’t think, to want to accomplish certain things and have some discomfort at the thought of never doing so.

Nor is it childish to worry about the unknown, I guess. I was really just addressing the question of how someone could see death in a way that didn’t make them afraid for what happens after.[/quote]

That makes sense, thanks for clarifying.

I intended my original post to address what I thought was a specious comment by Makavali, I could have made that clearer.[/quote]

I took Maks comments to Push to be more about the idea that death is a punishment for sin, with the logic being that death must be bad, and something bad would only happen to someone who did something bad, hence anyone who dies must have sinned somehow.

Death is a natural part of existing. It’s not some punishment.

People back then had more limited understanding of the natural world, and were highly superstitious. If your crops grew well, you must have pleased god/the gods/the harvest god. If you ate pork and got sick, it’s because [insert higher power] cursed pork and you were punished for eating it (when we understand now that pork just spoils faster than other meats).

53

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

I took Maks comments to Push to be more about the idea that death is a punishment for sin, with the logic being that death must be bad, and something bad would only happen to someone who did something bad, hence anyone who dies must have sinned somehow.

Death is a natural part of existing. It’s not some punishment.

People back then had more limited understanding of the natural world, and were highly superstitious. If your crops grew well, you must have pleased god/the gods/the harvest god. If you ate pork and got sick, it’s because [insert higher power] cursed pork and you were punished for eating it (when we understand now that pork just spoils faster than other meats).[/quote]

I don’t have any problem with that kind of reasoning and, in fact, I agree with it. I don’t believe that death is a punishment for sin.

But if that’s really what he meant, why did he write a meaningless one-liner that could be taken as a personal insult? I guess the joke is on me for trying to act civilized on the internet.

54

[quote]tom8658 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

I took Maks comments to Push to be more about the idea that death is a punishment for sin, with the logic being that death must be bad, and something bad would only happen to someone who did something bad, hence anyone who dies must have sinned somehow.

Death is a natural part of existing. It’s not some punishment.

People back then had more limited understanding of the natural world, and were highly superstitious. If your crops grew well, you must have pleased god/the gods/the harvest god. If you ate pork and got sick, it’s because [insert higher power] cursed pork and you were punished for eating it (when we understand now that pork just spoils faster than other meats).[/quote]

I don’t have any problem with that kind of reasoning and, in fact, I agree with it. I don’t believe that death is a punishment for sin.

But if that’s really what he meant, why did he write a meaningless one-liner that could be taken as a personal insult? I guess the joke is on me for trying to act civilized on the internet.[/quote]

I think the personal insult part was his intent. You really cant respond seriously when people come on here just to be dicks and troll each other.

So what do you consider yourself, in terms of religion and/or belief system?

55

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

I think being afraid of not doing things in life is different than fearing what happens after you die, seems we were looking at two different things. [/quote]

Actually, it’s one and the same. Being afraid of not doing things in life depends on the fact that you’re afraid of running out of time. Or, as we commonly call it, death.

56

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

I think being afraid of not doing things in life is different than fearing what happens after you die, seems we were looking at two different things. [/quote]

Actually, it’s one and the same. Being afraid of not doing things in life depends on the fact that you’re afraid of running out of time. Or, as we commonly call it, death. [/quote]

I disagree. One can believe they’ll get an eternal reward when they die, but still be uncomfortable with the idea of dying before they climb Mt Everest (or something like that).

57

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

I think being afraid of not doing things in life is different than fearing what happens after you die, seems we were looking at two different things. [/quote]

Actually, it’s one and the same. Being afraid of not doing things in life depends on the fact that you’re afraid of running out of time. Or, as we commonly call it, death. [/quote]

I disagree. One can believe they’ll get an eternal reward when they die, but still be uncomfortable with the idea of dying before they climb Mt Everest (or something like that). [/quote]

“uncomfortable.” C’mon, fear.

58

The thing about these religious threads are, for the most part, the only people involved are those with views so profound that they would never possibly change them. Its like arguing with a retard who’s parents told him his shit is concentrated evil. You ain’t going to change his views with reason and absolute logic vs blind faith. That said I am fucking amaaaaaaazed at how thoroughly people can be brainwashed by a religion(or government) from an early age. Far be it from me to pull the holier than though but to be an actual “Christian” or “Muslim”, ect, I see as the sign of a weak minded person. To not be able to question something that has no evidence and is so goddamn illogical is alarming. Lowest common denominator, man.

And for what its worth I am definitely not calling all strict Christians/ect unintelligent. I think some people have just invested so much into the bullshit they believe it would be a near fatal blow to their pride to reconsider. Hell if I gave 10% of my earnings to my “god” for my whole life I’d be goddamn pressed to say it was in vain - not that their are very man true Christians who give nearly that much.

Again for what its worth, I was a damn good little Christian, untill I picked up the bible and fucking actually read it. How anyone could read that book and offer praise to its god is far beyond me. I wouldn’t offer my worship to that god if he was real and the universe creator. I’d rather go to hell and kick it with Satan. I believe he’d have a nice spot for me next to him, kickin’ back sippin’ brews, chucking some fireballs at some child molesters.

Anyway, I still find myself reading these threads and listening to anyone willing to preach on religion; just looking for a scrap of something to cling to in order to find faith. I’ve looked thoroughly for something like that and I’ll tell ya, I sure as hell have not find it in the least. What I’m saying is I wish their was some God I could worship; what better purpose in life than bettering your God? I just sure have not found this God and judging from these asinine threads or listening to the illogical, often downright false preachings of these religious scholars - neither has anyone else.