Anyone Affected By Autism?

Off Topic
21

You know, I understand when ppl tell me “I’m sorry” when they find out that my son has an ASD.

They are acknowledging that our whole family has a hard road ahead. For the most part, we get along ok, but some days are just hard.

We deal with: weird looks, being gossiped about, being given unwanted advice, being told our kids are brats and need a good spanking, struggling to get the kids to behave when we go to the store or have a meal out or go to church, Max being treated poorly, Max being made fun of, Max being the brunt of jokes and teasing.

This is from some of the “normal” people who are being total assholes because they don’t understand it or they refuse to acknowledge it. What sucks is when some of the stuff we’ve experienced is from so-called friends.

It hurts to have to deal with that. I do understand when ppl say they’re sorry and I know they say it out of the goodness of their hearts.

22

Hans Asperger was a nazi doctor. Do not trust anything that came out of the third reich’s medical community.

If you don’t believe me here is what a board certified doctor of neurology has to say about it.

http://www.adhdfraud.org/frameit.asp?src=emails.htm

Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 9:22 PM
Subject: Asperger’s Syndrome?

Dr. Baughman,

Are you familiar with a new “pervasive developmental disorder”
called Asperger’s Syndrome? Apparently, if a subject does
not enjoy making vacuous small talk about pop culture, has
interests which differ from an (unspecified) approved
list or shows in-depth interest in any topic, displays
“excessive” knowledge while answering a question, is not
overly concerned with what others think and is resistant
to peer pressure, then the subject is considered to have a
disability and in need of psychotropic drug therapy.

It seems as though admirable qualities of an independent,
serious minded, intelligent mature individual have now
been turned, Orwellian style, into deficiencies which
require drastic remediation.

I have found your commentary on ADHD quite useful and was
wondering what you thought of Asperger’s Syndrome.
Could you comment?

Sign me,
A Concerned Parent
####@aol.com

[Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD: this variant of autism is not associated with a demonstrable brain/body abnormality, is not a disease/abnormality, does not therefore require, justify medical treatment. fb]

23

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Hans Asperger was a nazi doctor. Do not trust anything that came out of the third reich’s medical community.
[/quote]

Maybe he was. But that doesn’t negate the REALITY that my son lives. So it has the name of a nazi doctor. So what? I have no control over who discovers and names disorders and illnesses.

I know WELL what the 3rd reich has done - I don’t need your bullshit cluttering up my son’s neurological difference.

STFU

24

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Hans Asperger was a nazi doctor. Do not trust anything that came out of the third reich’s medical community.

If you don’t believe me here is what a board certified doctor of neurology has to say about it.

http://www.adhdfraud.org/frameit.asp?src=emails.htm

Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 9:22 PM
Subject: Asperger’s Syndrome?

Dr. Baughman,

Are you familiar with a new “pervasive developmental disorder”
called Asperger’s Syndrome? Apparently, if a subject does
not enjoy making vacuous small talk about pop culture, has
interests which differ from an (unspecified) approved
list or shows in-depth interest in any topic, displays
“excessive” knowledge while answering a question, is not
overly concerned with what others think and is resistant
to peer pressure, then the subject is considered to have a
disability and in need of psychotropic drug therapy.

It seems as though admirable qualities of an independent,
serious minded, intelligent mature individual have now
been turned, Orwellian style, into deficiencies which
require drastic remediation.

I have found your commentary on ADHD quite useful and was
wondering what you thought of Asperger’s Syndrome.
Could you comment?

Sign me,
A Concerned Parent
####@aol.com

[Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD: this variant of autism is not associated with a demonstrable brain/body abnormality, is not a disease/abnormality, does not therefore require, justify medical treatment. fb]
[/quote]

Sifu,

i could not find any source that says Dr Asperger was a card carrying Nazi doctor. He researched in Austria in '44 which was Nazi occupied. If he was I’m sure he didn’t have much of a choice.

Your doctor that you quote only says that he doesn’t think Aspy’s should be treated. Big deal. It doesn’t take away from the fact that Aspy’s exists.

Why don’t you stick to your MMA threads about the merits of guys kicking each other in the nuts?

25

Just an observation…

As parent’s you guys need to:

  1. BE CAREFUL!

  2. Ask a LOT of questions.

There are FAR too many diagnoses being “bundled” and expanded to the point that when a diagnosis is given, it often has little meaning.

Add “high functioning” and “low functioning” and “classical” diagnoses often have lost their original meaning.

ASK QUESTIONS!

Mufasa

26

In 1943 when Asperger authored his article describing aspergers he was working at the Leipzig clinic. Leipzig is in Germany. To call Austria an occupied country is to put it into the same category as Poland or France. The Anschluss was the reunification of the German and Austrian peoples. With an Austrian (Hitler)as their leader. The Austrians were even more fanatical nazi’s than the Germans. People were rejoicing when Hitler entered Vienna just like the Parisians were rejoicing when the Americans liberated Paris.

The head of the Leipzig clinic was a dedicated racial hygienist. The leipzig clinic was where Joseph Mengele had his first paid job as a doctor in 1936.

Here is an intersting excerpt from a short history of the Leipzig clinic. http://www.uni-leipzig.de/~psy/eng/geschi-e.htm

It was two affairs that occurred in Leipzig that had a major promoting impact on the development of Nazi crime against the mentally ill all over Germany. As early as in 1920 the Freiburg psychiatrist Alfred Hoche and Karl Binding, professor of law at Leipzig University, published their heinous book titled “The Release of the Destruction of Life Unworthy of Living. Its Scope and Forms” 4 (Die Freigabe der Vernichtung lebensunwerten Lebens. Ihr Ma? und ihre Formen. Leipzig: Meiner). In 1939 then it was at the Paedriatic Clinic of Leipzig University that the first mentally ill child (named Knauer) in Germany was murdered upon Hitler’s personal order - as a precedent for thousands to follow. Presumably from 1941 the Leipzig hospital had a special unit for children where children were systematically killed and submitted to medical experiments.

Hans Asperger was a pediatrician at that clinic, until it was bombed by the allies. I think it is very important to know the history of a condition for which there is no objective means of testing. Especially one which has a rapidly expanding industry of caregivers profiting from it.

There are a lot of people getting on a bandwagon of giving money to something which may very well be medical fraud.

As doctor Baughman says there is no test that he a doctor of neurology can perform that identifies this condition. It is a purely subjective evaluation, just like ADHD.

I think the fact that Hans Aspeger authored the paper that described this so called condition while working at nazi germanies first child killing center shows his true colors. There is no way he could not have known what what would be the fate of his test subjects. If Asperger wasn’t willing to be a participant in the Nazi’s atrocities he wouldn’t have published.

27


Autistic kids rock!

28

My daughter was diagnosed with PDD-NOS (an autism spectrum disorder) and went through the same progression as the op’s (picked up a few words at an early age, lost them and didn’t become verbal until many years later). We had some pretty tough times.

However, she is now 13 years old, in a standard middle school class and doing well (although she still has her good and bad days). I strongly suggest you find a good ABA program (applied behavioral analysis) and get your daughter enrolled as soon as possible.

Then learn the techniques yourself and work with your daughter every chance you get. Google “applied behavioral analysis” for more information, and feel free to PM me if you have any questions about it.

29

[quote]Sifu wrote:
In 1943 when Asperger authored his article describing aspergers he was working at the Leipzig clinic. Leipzig is in Germany. To call Austria an occupied country is to put it into the same category as Poland or France. The Anschluss was the reunification of the German and Austrian peoples. With an Austrian (Hitler)as their leader. The Austrians were even more fanatical nazi’s than the Germans. People were rejoicing when Hitler entered Vienna just like the Parisians were rejoicing when the Americans liberated Paris.

The head of the Leipzig clinic was a dedicated racial hygienist. The leipzig clinic was where Joseph Mengele had his first paid job as a doctor in 1936.

Here is an intersting excerpt from a short history of the Leipzig clinic. http://www.uni-leipzig.de/~psy/eng/geschi-e.htm

It was two affairs that occurred in Leipzig that had a major promoting impact on the development of Nazi crime against the mentally ill all over Germany. As early as in 1920 the Freiburg psychiatrist Alfred Hoche and Karl Binding, professor of law at Leipzig University, published their heinous book titled “The Release of the Destruction of Life Unworthy of Living. Its Scope and Forms” 4 (Die Freigabe der Vernichtung lebensunwerten Lebens. Ihr Ma? und ihre Formen. Leipzig: Meiner). In 1939 then it was at the Paedriatic Clinic of Leipzig University that the first mentally ill child (named Knauer) in Germany was murdered upon Hitler’s personal order - as a precedent for thousands to follow. Presumably from 1941 the Leipzig hospital had a special unit for children where children were systematically killed and submitted to medical experiments.

Hans Asperger was a pediatrician at that clinic, until it was bombed by the allies. I think it is very important to know the history of a condition for which there is no objective means of testing. Especially one which has a rapidly expanding industry of caregivers profiting from it.

There are a lot of people getting on a bandwagon of giving money to something which may very well be medical fraud.

As doctor Baughman says there is no test that he a doctor of neurology can perform that identifies this condition. It is a purely subjective evaluation, just like ADHD.

I think the fact that Hans Aspeger authored the paper that described this so called condition while working at nazi germanies first child killing center shows his true colors. There is no way he could not have known what what would be the fate of his test subjects. If Asperger wasn’t willing to be a participant in the Nazi’s atrocities he wouldn’t have published. [/quote]

It still does not take away from the fact that children are suffering… even if the effects are not in a measureable form. Do these kids need to grow a third eye for you to believe that it exists?

30


Newbie - I’ve been following this discussion [from afar] as I have two autistic boys myself.
It seems that many people either know someone who is autistic / has an autistic child / has a friend…and so on.
I think autism touches more lives than we realise.
Cheers

31

No the kids don’t need to grow a third eye, but there are a lot of parents who need their eyes opened to the fact that there has been some seriously medical fraud going on in this country in regards to children and Aspergers is one of the lies that has been pushed.

Read some of the things that Doctor Baughman has to say regarding the widespread drugging of children in this country with ritalin.

For example I don’t think many people are aware that for several decades schools all across America were engaged in an illegal practice called coercion. School teachers who are not trained doctors, were telling parents that their child could not attend school unless they took them to a doctor and got a prescription for ritalin. This is a violation of civil rights.

The citizens commision on civil rights had to take out a lawsuit that forced the federal government to enact a law in 2004 ordering all 50 states legislatures to enact laws specifically ordering the schools to stop this violation of civil rights.

This has hurt the wallets of a lot of people who were profiting from coercion, so they needed a new lie to tell. A lie which allows them to take a seemingly normal kid and label them abnormal so they can get at the money. So here we are two years later and we now have an epidemic of autism, that really isn’t autism instead it’s the new autism spectrum disorders.

Aspergers is the perfect condition for this. After all a kid can be seemingly normal with this condition. So now we hear things like “it may be more widespread than we realize” or “it’s a mysterious condition that is hard to detect”.

Aspergers is a condition that is wide open for abuse. Since most parents are young and unaware of all the deceit that has gone on in the past it is not hard to gain their trust and the learning curve for parents can be long enough that their kid is nearly an adult before they start to have doubts. Because there is no objective test, there is no way a person can ever disprove it.

So unless you have a kid who quite obviously has something wrong like just sitting in a corner rocking not talking to anyone, be sceptical.

Whatever you do be very very cautious of medications. All psychiatric medications by their nature are brain function disabling. These brain functions don’t always return upon cessation of medication. Given to a normal person you can permanently disable parts of their brain and turn a normal person into a person who needs to be treated for the rest of their life.

There are people who this has happened to, so don’t just take a doctors word that their pills are perfectly safe, there are very few medications that we actually know exactly how they work so we don’t know their full effects.

So that’s why I’ve taken the time to write all this. I’m just trying to open people’s eyes so they don’t get taken advantage of. Because I know people who have lived to regret letting the schools and doctors have their way with their kid. People who will tell you “if I knew then what I know now”.

32

[quote]Sifu wrote:
No the kids don’t need to grow a third eye, but there are a lot of parents who need their eyes opened to the fact that there has been some seriously medical fraud going on in this country in regards to children and Aspergers is one of the lies that has been pushed.

Read some of the things that Doctor Baughman has to say regarding the widespread drugging of children in this country with ritalin.

For example I don’t think many people are aware that for several decades schools all across America were engaged in an illegal practice called coercion. School teachers who are not trained doctors, were telling parents that their child could not attend school unless they took them to a doctor and got a prescription for ritalin. This is a violation of civil rights.

The citizens commision on civil rights had to take out a lawsuit that forced the federal government to enact a law in 2004 ordering all 50 states legislatures to enact laws specifically ordering the schools to stop this violation of civil rights.

This has hurt the wallets of a lot of people who were profiting from coercion, so they needed a new lie to tell. A lie which allows them to take a seemingly normal kid and label them abnormal so they can get at the money. So here we are two years later and we now have an epidemic of autism, that really isn’t autism instead it’s the new autism spectrum disorders.

Aspergers is the perfect condition for this. After all a kid can be seemingly normal with this condition. So now we hear things like “it may be more widespread than we realize” or “it’s a mysterious condition that is hard to detect”.

Aspergers is a condition that is wide open for abuse. Since most parents are young and unaware of all the deceit that has gone on in the past it is not hard to gain their trust and the learning curve for parents can be long enough that their kid is nearly an adult before they start to have doubts. Because there is no objective test, there is no way a person can ever disprove it.

So unless you have a kid who quite obviously has something wrong like just sitting in a corner rocking not talking to anyone, be sceptical.

Whatever you do be very very cautious of medications. All psychiatric medications by their nature are brain function disabling. These brain functions don’t always return upon cessation of medication. Given to a normal person you can permanently disable parts of their brain and turn a normal person into a person who needs to be treated for the rest of their life.

There are people who this has happened to, so don’t just take a doctors word that their pills are perfectly safe, there are very few medications that we actually know exactly how they work so we don’t know their full effects.

So that’s why I’ve taken the time to write all this. I’m just trying to open people’s eyes so they don’t get taken advantage of. Because I know people who have lived to regret letting the schools and doctors have their way with their kid. People who will tell you “if I knew then what I know now”.[/quote]

A little paranoid, aren’t you? Keep in mind that without the diagnosis, an affected child will not qualify for services from the school district, county or state. And I’m not referring to medication, I’m referring to inclusion classes, special teachers, aides and the like. And with the proper therapies, a lot of these kids can grow up to live normal lives. Conversely, without the proper therapies, a lot of these kids will end up in institutions when their parents get too old to care for them.

Yes, parents should educate themselves before blindly accepting what a doctor tells them. They should also not discount a diagnosis simply because, in your opinion, some doctors are using it to commit fraud. With these children, the earlier therapy starts the better the outcome.

33

Sifu, I understand where you’re coming from; I have strong opinions on specific health choices myself.

My son is not yet diagnosed. No doctor, no therapist, no person with initials after their name or a title before it has said ANYTHING about my son. The reason for seeking his diagnosis is based on my own observations as his mother.

Autism and Asperger’s Disorder is not new, nor is it a conspiracy. Also, you keep bring up ritalin and Asperger’s in the same thought - as if Asperger’s can be treated with Ritalin.

Are you aware that Asperger’s can not be cured? Ritalin is frequently diagnosed for ADHD - NOT Asperger’s. Some kids w/ Asperger’s have been misdiagnosed as ADHD and vice-versa, as well as diagnosed with both. The ritalin allegedly (note my use of allegedly) helps w/ attention deficit. I am not one who is interested in over-diagnosing or medicating my children.

Were you aware that mercury poisoning in the 30’s is very similar to modern-day autism? Did you know that up until very recently all vaccines contained amounts of mercury and still contain aluminum? I don’t believe this is the only reason or cause for autism spectrum disorders, but many parents DO believe the link between autism & vaccines exists.

I understand that you hold your beliefs very personally and I understand why you would want to inform other ppl of it. I get it. But please don’t think for a minute that those of us w/ kids on the spectrum haven’t asked questions or sought other reasons to why our kids are the way they are. It’s NOT something we seek for our kids. It’s not easy to accept that your child is so vastly different from his or her peers.

I recommend you take some time to observe autistic children and see just exactly how different they really are.

34

advance apologies if this has been mentioned since I haven’t read this whole thread…

nutritional, nutraceutical and orthomolecular medicine has been successfully used to treat autism (as well as adhd, which apparently sometimes have similar nutritional contributing factors). I don’t know all the details but if I had an autistic child I know I’d be investigating this avenue.

35

[quote]Jinx Me wrote:
advance apologies if this has been mentioned since I haven’t read this whole thread…

nutritional, nutraceutical and orthomolecular medicine has been successfully used to treat autism (as well as adhd, which apparently sometimes have similar nutritional contributing factors). I don’t know all the details but if I had an autistic child I know I’d be investigating this avenue. [/quote]

Yup. We use the Feingold Program which helps GREATLY and many other families on it also are GF/CF (gluten-free/casein-free) with even further success than just Feingold.

36

A wise man once said that just because a person is paranoid it doesn’t mean they don’t have a very good reason.

I might have a very different frame of reference from you, so don’t be too quick to judge.

I know people who have been victims of coercion, so I decided to do some homework. What I have learned has taught me to be suspicious of these so called conditions and to not be at all trusting of those who profit from them.

It would be logistically very difficult for me to convey all that is in Doctor Baughmans website because there is so much info there. Also many might think what does adhd have to do with autism not realising that it is the same group of people who are treating both conditions.

Then there is the Kossor education news letter website, which is multiple pages written by a psychologist detailing all kinds of abuses of power by schools and violations of medical ethics.

There is a saying where there is smoke there is fire. If the practice of coercion which has violated the civil rights of millions of children isn’t a smoking gun I don’t know what else is.

Coercion is a common widespread abuse of civil rights, but I don’t think most people are aware it has been going on nor are they aware that President Bush was forced to sign a law banning the practice, even though it was just two years ago.

If one of you had done a google search you would have seen that Ritalin is being touted as a treatment for some of the so called symptoms of Autism.

I also see that one of you has touted the manipulative retoric that caregivers use to stock thier facilities with patients. Things like "if treat it early your kid will have a normal life, but if you don’t treat it early they will have all these problems later in life, surely you want your kid to have a normal life.

Or the most outrageous one I have seen was “kids who don’t get treated for ADHD are far more likely to become drug addicts when they get older”. So you better hurry up and get your kid on ritalin before it’s too late or you won’t be a good parent.

Never mind the fact that the US Drug Enforcement Agency has classified Ritalin as a schedule 2 narcotic. Which means it is highly addictive with a high potential for abuse.

Ritalin is a methamphetamine that is chemically almost identical to crystal meth and very similar to cocaine. That’s why they call it “kiddy crack”.

If you feed someone methamphetamines from early childhood they will be an addict by the time they are an adult it is unavoidable.

Do not make the common mistake of thinking that because a drug is prescribed by a doctor that it isn’t addictive. Just ask Rush LimBaugh.

The whole idea of special education classes being inclusive is laughable. Segregation into a special ed class by it’s very nature is not inclusion it is exclusion.

Over time the psychological effects of that exclusion will be the same as some of the so called symptoms of Aspergers.

It’s simple how it works. Children learn their verbal social skills from their peers not their parents. If you prevent a normal kid from socialising with their peers by putting them in special ed, they stop developing social skills at the same rate as their peers, they can even regress. This lack of social skills then makes them less desirable for their peers to socialize with them making them even more isolated.

The younger a child is the more they can be damaged by this. That is why there is so much pressure to get these kids as young as possible. If you never give them the chance to develop normally they will have problems all their life.

So be very careful with these so called Autism Spectrum Disorders, because they are an excuse to put a normal kid in circumstances where they will be psychologically damaged in ways that will make them appear to be autistic.

37

Yes, occasionally paranoid people have a good reason to be paranoid. Most of the time they don’t.

You say I should have done a Google search as you did. I don’t have to. You learned what you know from reading articles on the internet. I, on the other hand, learn what I know the hard way. I live it, every single day. I have one child diagnosed with autism and another diagnosed with ADD. Never did anyone suggest treating my autistic child with ritalin or any other drug. She has been in a number of ABA classes, from special schools for autistic children through the regular school district, and thanks to the hard work and dedication of a lot of great people, today you probably couldn’t tell her apart from any of her classmates. And this from a child who didn’t say a word until she was almost six years old, who had unbelievable temper tantrums, who never ever made eye contact or even acknowledged that other people existed. Trust me, no one ever got rich from teaching her, and no one ever tried to exploit or coerce us.

Like you, I was originally concerned that giving her the label “autistic” would be a stigma, or that being in with other affected kids would “drag her down”. Nothing could have been further from the truth. Do you even know what an inclusion class is? It’s a place where they mainstream special ed kids in with the rest of the school population. How can that be considered exclusion? My daughter’s inclusion classes were truly inclusive–I know, I saw them. Have you ever actually been to an autism school and witnessed ABA or discrete trials? Have you ever seen an inclusion class, or have you just read about them?

I still don’t understand why you keep trying to link autism with ADD. But even so, some of your views on ADD and ritalin are off the mark as well. You use the fact that the DEA classified ritalin as a schedule 2 narcotic as proof that it is evil? Really? Would that be the same DEA that classified prohormones like MAG-10 as controlled substances, and banned ephedra because it was “dangerous”? Don’t expect to get a lot of support around here with that particular argument. And you shoot down the blanket statement that “kids who don’t get treated for ADHD are far more likely to become drug addicts when they get older” as being completely baseless and untrue, yet you make a ridiculous blanket statement that “if you feed someone methamphetamines from early childhood they will be an addict by the time they are an adult it is unavoidable.” So what you are saying is that every child that is on ritalin today will be an addict by adulthood. Once again, you make these statements based on what you read on a few web sites. My son was on ritalin and adderall for years. Guess what? They helped him focus and keep his grades and self esteem up. A few years ago he asked to be removed from them, and we agreed. Today he is a happy, well-adjusted 16 year old who has never experimented with narcotics, alcohol, cigarettes, or any other substance. Like my daughter, his diagnosis and treatment were successful, because they were right for him.

I understand your concern and acknowledge that there may be instances of coercion or situations where people have been taken advantage of. Guess what? That happens every day in all walks of life. If a percentage of people get screwed buying a used car, does that mean we should all run screaming from the automobile dealership? Of course parents should be careful and educate themselves before accepting any advice, whether it be from a school or doctor or any other professional. But by frightening the parents of these children with horror stories of coercion, you are doing them a tremendous disservice. Whether you accept it or not, it is scientific fact that the older a non-verbal child gets, the harder it is to develop language skills. It is imperative that autistic children get a proper diagnosis, and get into an ABA program as soon as possible.

38

What’s with all this negative talk about nazi doctors? C’mon, think…

39

My niece is Autistic, she was diagnosed at about 3 when she didnt talk or communicate very well.There is people that can come to your house and help you work with them it did wonders for her.She was in special classes at the school but now shes in regular classes.

I think alot of kids go undiagnosed.Its not easy to except as a parent.But the sooner its caught the sooner you can start teaching them the skills they need.

40

If you read my last post I said that a lack of learned social skills can look just like what they are calling autism.

The difference is one is supposedly caused by brain damage though they have no proof of that, the other is just a lack of the right stimulus.

My parents have a freind who didn’t start talking till he was six, he has had a normal life without special schooling. It might not be usual for one to start speaking so late in life but that doesn’t mean it’s abnormal and it doesn’t prove someone has brain damage.

I think it would be very unlikely that if your kid was having speech difficulties and tantrums because of brain damage, that they would be much better now they are older, irregardless of how much help they had.

On the other hand I do think that a normal young kid who was having a hard time expressing themself because of a lack of learned verbal skills would tend to get frustrated by it which would explain the lack of talking and the tantrums. I think that such a situation is something that could clear up over time as the kid got older to the point that you would have a hard time telling her from anyone else.

We hear a lot of talk about vaccines and mercury but there is no scientific proof showing an actual link and this is very much a theory.

Mag10 might be schedule 2 but a dozen capsules of mag10 never made my heart feel like it was going to jump out of my chest and run away from me. As much as I liked the way I felt on it I never went through withdrawl coming off of it.

Amphetamines like ritalin, crystal meth, cocaine are well know to cause chemical dependency. It’s also no surprise to see someone on them to have a massive heart attack and die either. Although noone really knows the actual number, because reporting by doctors is not mandatory, ritalin has been reported to have caused at least 200 deaths.

Some things the on the DEA drug schedule don’t make a lot of sense but others do.