[quote]Edgy wrote:
isn’t endor where Luke ran into those cute little teddy bear thingys?[/quote]
It is, indeed.
Endor was also a Canaanite city; located between the Hill of Moreh and Mount Tabor in the Jezreel Valley.
Spielberg is, after all, a nice Jewish boy. He made many, many references to Israel and Judaism throughout his movies. Kind of an inside joke, I guess.
[/quote]
Errr…Speilberg has nothing to do with return of the jedi and ewoks or Endor.
[/quote]
But George Lucas is Jewish.
[/quote]
George Lucas is not Jewish.
George Lucas was raised as a Methodist with a strongly Protestant family background and describes himself as being a “Buddhist/Methodist” whatever that is.
The whole “jedi lore” thing is heavily based on eastern religions - not Judaism.
[/quote]
Shit, I’m sorry. I could have sworn both he and Spielberg were Jewish, hearing that somewhere. Well, crap.
Buddhist Methodist? Sort of like a Christian Mystic?[/quote]
Christian mysticism has a long history. Rosicrucianism being the most well known form. There are theories Jesus was actually killed for bringing hidden, mystic (occultic) knowledge public, but only some of it. Texts alluding to “mysteries of Jesus” were not cannonized and have accordingly fallen out of consciousness but exist.
I’ll try to find links if interested but start by googling The Nazarene Way. Gotta love the internet.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
What are your thoughts on the legitimacy of contacting “the other side” through means outside of the “law”? . . . . why not do it if you can manipulate your contact to your own liking? What makes the rules of operation so uniquely correct? [/quote]
How did Kind Saul’s visit to the witch of Endor turn out?[/quote]
Yeah but divination sounds pretty exciting, although Jesus supposedly did that for us.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
What are your thoughts on the legitimacy of contacting “the other side” through means outside of the “law”? . . . . why not do it if you can manipulate your contact to your own liking? What makes the rules of operation so uniquely correct? [/quote]
How did Kind Saul’s visit to the witch of Endor turn out?[/quote]
Yeah but divination sounds pretty exciting, although Jesus supposedly did that for us. [/quote]
Your feckless attempts at syllogism border on the insipid.
How is life in America for atheists, can you freely speak your views in public? I always see crazy fanatical shit on TV or online like that Religulous movie, is it really that bad?
Even though Australia is mainly christian you can still get around and say what you want without any trouble.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
What are your thoughts on the legitimacy of contacting “the other side” through means outside of the “law”? . . . . why not do it if you can manipulate your contact to your own liking? What makes the rules of operation so uniquely correct? [/quote]
How did Kind Saul’s visit to the witch of Endor turn out?[/quote]
Yeah but divination sounds pretty exciting, although Jesus supposedly did that for us. [/quote]
Your feckless attempts at syllogism border on the insipid.
[/quote] No way dude. Divination is not insipid at all. Regarding feckless, what would Jesus do? Divination. It’s a sound practice according to the J-ster.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
What are your thoughts on the legitimacy of contacting “the other side” through means outside of the “law”? . . . . why not do it if you can manipulate your contact to your own liking? What makes the rules of operation so uniquely correct? [/quote]
How did Kind Saul’s visit to the witch of Endor turn out?[/quote]
Yeah but divination sounds pretty exciting, although Jesus supposedly did that for us. [/quote]
Your feckless attempts at syllogism border on the insipid.
[/quote] No way dude. Divination is not insipid at all. Regarding feckless, what would Jesus do? Divination. It’s a sound practice according to the J-ster.
[/quote]
Go on
[quote]Hugh Jassman wrote:
How is life in America for atheists, can you freely speak your views in public? I always see crazy fanatical shit on TV or online like that Religulous movie, is it really that bad?
Even though Australia is mainly christian you can still get around and say what you want without any trouble.[/quote]
Yeah, it’s fine. People might get offended, but that happens everywhere.
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
I go to church but I’m not especially religious.
I like the idea of setting aside some time every week to work on my spiritual health the same way I go the the gym for my physical health or read for my mental health.
I was raised Catholic and love the Catholic Mass, the Church, and the traditions but my own beliefs diverge from Catholicism so greatly that I really can’t call myself Catholic any longer. So, I go to Church for the quiet, and the sense of community, and to spend some spiritual time, but no longer go up for Communion.[/quote]
If only other Catholics would have the same courtesy…
Ok here is somehting I thought about the other day while reading some of Revelations.For those who believe in the biblical versions of God and the Devil(assuming Christians who believe in both also believe Revelations)-
It is prophesised in Revelation that god and the lamb bring about the destruction of the beast/serpent/devil and his followers.As god is omnipitent,omnipresent and omniknowledgeable in past,present and future according to the bible this is how it will happen-God and the Lamb victorious over evil.Absolutely no two ways about it.
Now as the Devil is supposedly already operating in this world for a number of millenia after he was cast out of the heavens and given that he has a vast array of power/influence(aswell as minions with similar power and human follwers who know the bible)in both physical and spiritual realms-would it not be fair to assume he has knowledge of this unchangeable prophecy?
Begging the question why stand against a being who is capable of literally anything and ending the existence of such malevolent beings with a thought?
It does not make any sense whatsoever.Especially given that the Devil has first hand knowledge and experience of God from his previous time in the spiritual realm,thus must know the full extent of the creators unlimited power.Why fight a fight that you cannot even begin to have the faintest glimmer of hope of winning?
The book of revelation either makes out that God is not omnipotent(thus giving the Devil hope of victory and contardicting the bibles earlioer claims of an omnipotent god) or it is complete bunkum.
Thoughts?[/quote]
Revelation is a type of literature called Apocalyptic. Its main purpose was reassurance for its intended audience. Another example of apocalyptic literature is the book of Daniel. In both texts, the author is presenting a situation in which the sufferings of the audience are assuaged by the promise of upcoming alleviation of suffering. Apocalyptic literature is very, very symbolic. It contains phrases and imagery that are meaningful to the intended audience, but not to anyone else. Scholars believe much of the imagery is to hide the message from unintended eyes. Imagine a Roman consul or governor catching sight of Revelation when instead of the “Beast” it said Nero Caesar. The already persecuted Christians would be further persecuted.
Angels are purely spiritual creatures that are gifted with a free-will. Satan, by nature an angel, was banished as the result of his free choice to distance himself from God. The modern concept of Hell is mostly incorrect: God doesn’t condemn people to go there, they choose to go themselves by totally rejecting God. Satan condemned himself by choosing to distance himself from God. His rejection is so complete that he forever operates in an antagonistic role opposite God. Where God wants reconciliation, Satan seeks rupture. Where God offers forgiveness, Satan prefers damnation.
Satan’s role is not necessarily to overthrow God. This would, as you point out, be rather stupid considering his banishment from Heaven was the direct result of his rejection of God’s authority (only the really dense would somehow think that, after getting beat down so thoroughly, they’d have a chance at payback). Throughout Scripture, Satan’s role is the Accuser, or the tempter. He seeks not to overthrow God’s kingdom, but to destroy, insofar as possible, God’s creations. Consider in Genesis, how he twists God’s warning to Adam to get Eve and Adam to sin…knowing they’d surely die. Then, we see in Job Satan attempting to afflict Job so much that Job curses God (which he does not). We see in the Gospels Satan tempt Jesus. These episodes are important. If Jesus’ Human Nature follows Satan’s temptations, than God’s plan for reconciling humanity with the Divine is defeated. God doesn’t suffer, but His creation does. This is what Satan is all about: bringing suffering to humanity. Satan’s war is not with God, but with us.
The omnipotence and omniscience of God is not in question, but rather, the extent of the knowledge of Satan. As you point out, it would seem that Satan would know of the unchangeable and inevitable fact that he would be defeated by God. However, one must consider the extent of Satan’s fall from grace and how much his pride and arrogance have blinded him to reality. Consider those individuals whose impressions of themselves are so inflated that they fail to recognize their shortcomings. We see them all time: arrogant s.o.b.s who think they are all that, when in reality they aren’t. In those cases, their inflated sense of self distorts their perception of reality. It doesn’t help when they are surrounded by ass-kissing sycophants that worship the very ground they walk on. When people are telling you that you can do no wrong, you begin to think that way.
Ok here is somehting I thought about the other day while reading some of Revelations.For those who believe in the biblical versions of God and the Devil(assuming Christians who believe in both also believe Revelations)-
It is prophesised in Revelation that god and the lamb bring about the destruction of the beast/serpent/devil and his followers.As god is omnipitent,omnipresent and omniknowledgeable in past,present and future according to the bible this is how it will happen-God and the Lamb victorious over evil.Absolutely no two ways about it.
Now as the Devil is supposedly already operating in this world for a number of millenia after he was cast out of the heavens and given that he has a vast array of power/influence(aswell as minions with similar power and human follwers who know the bible)in both physical and spiritual realms-would it not be fair to assume he has knowledge of this unchangeable prophecy?
Begging the question why stand against a being who is capable of literally anything and ending the existence of such malevolent beings with a thought?
It does not make any sense whatsoever.Especially given that the Devil has first hand knowledge and experience of God from his previous time in the spiritual realm,thus must know the full extent of the creators unlimited power.Why fight a fight that you cannot even begin to have the faintest glimmer of hope of winning?
The book of revelation either makes out that God is not omnipotent(thus giving the Devil hope of victory and contardicting the bibles earlioer claims of an omnipotent god) or it is complete bunkum.
Thoughts?[/quote]
Revelation is a type of literature called Apocalyptic. Its main purpose was reassurance for its intended audience. Another example of apocalyptic literature is the book of Daniel. In both texts, the author is presenting a situation in which the sufferings of the audience are assuaged by the promise of upcoming alleviation of suffering. Apocalyptic literature is very, very symbolic. It contains phrases and imagery that are meaningful to the intended audience, but not to anyone else. Scholars believe much of the imagery is to hide the message from unintended eyes. Imagine a Roman consul or governor catching sight of Revelation when instead of the “Beast” it said Nero Caesar. The already persecuted Christians would be further persecuted.
Angels are purely spiritual creatures that are gifted with a free-will. Satan, by nature an angel, was banished as the result of his free choice to distance himself from God. The modern concept of Hell is mostly incorrect: God doesn’t condemn people to go there, they choose to go themselves by totally rejecting God. Satan condemned himself by choosing to distance himself from God. His rejection is so complete that he forever operates in an antagonistic role opposite God. Where God wants reconciliation, Satan seeks rupture. Where God offers forgiveness, Satan prefers damnation.
Satan’s role is not necessarily to overthrow God. This would, as you point out, be rather stupid considering his banishment from Heaven was the direct result of his rejection of God’s authority (only the really dense would somehow think that, after getting beat down so thoroughly, they’d have a chance at payback). Throughout Scripture, Satan’s role is the Accuser, or the tempter. He seeks not to overthrow God’s kingdom, but to destroy, insofar as possible, God’s creations. Consider in Genesis, how he twists God’s warning to Adam to get Eve and Adam to sin…knowing they’d surely die. Then, we see in Job Satan attempting to afflict Job so much that Job curses God (which he does not). We see in the Gospels Satan tempt Jesus. These episodes are important. If Jesus’ Human Nature follows Satan’s temptations, than God’s plan for reconciling humanity with the Divine is defeated. God doesn’t suffer, but His creation does. This is what Satan is all about: bringing suffering to humanity. Satan’s war is not with God, but with us.
The omnipotence and omniscience of God is not in question, but rather, the extent of the knowledge of Satan. As you point out, it would seem that Satan would know of the unchangeable and inevitable fact that he would be defeated by God. However, one must consider the extent of Satan’s fall from grace and how much his pride and arrogance have blinded him to reality. Consider those individuals whose impressions of themselves are so inflated that they fail to recognize their shortcomings. We see them all time: arrogant s.o.b.s who think they are all that, when in reality they aren’t. In those cases, their inflated sense of self distorts their perception of reality. It doesn’t help when they are surrounded by ass-kissing sycophants that worship the very ground they walk on. When people are telling you that you can do no wrong, you begin to think that way.
[quote]Hugh Jassman wrote:
How is life in America for atheists, can you freely speak your views in public? I always see crazy fanatical shit on TV or online like that Religulous movie, is it really that bad?
Even though Australia is mainly christian you can still get around and say what you want without any trouble.[/quote]
Yeah, it’s fine. People might get offended, but that happens everywhere.[/quote]
You should go on reddit atheism and read some of the stories that are sometimes posted.
Families have cut off ties with an individual for being an atheist.
Ok here is somehting I thought about the other day while reading some of Revelations.For those who believe in the biblical versions of God and the Devil(assuming Christians who believe in both also believe Revelations)-
It is prophesised in Revelation that god and the lamb bring about the destruction of the beast/serpent/devil and his followers.As god is omnipitent,omnipresent and omniknowledgeable in past,present and future according to the bible this is how it will happen-God and the Lamb victorious over evil.Absolutely no two ways about it.
Now as the Devil is supposedly already operating in this world for a number of millenia after he was cast out of the heavens and given that he has a vast array of power/influence(aswell as minions with similar power and human follwers who know the bible)in both physical and spiritual realms-would it not be fair to assume he has knowledge of this unchangeable prophecy?
Begging the question why stand against a being who is capable of literally anything and ending the existence of such malevolent beings with a thought?
It does not make any sense whatsoever.Especially given that the Devil has first hand knowledge and experience of God from his previous time in the spiritual realm,thus must know the full extent of the creators unlimited power.Why fight a fight that you cannot even begin to have the faintest glimmer of hope of winning?
The book of revelation either makes out that God is not omnipotent(thus giving the Devil hope of victory and contardicting the bibles earlioer claims of an omnipotent god) or it is complete bunkum.
Thoughts?[/quote]
Revelation is a type of literature called Apocalyptic. Its main purpose was reassurance for its intended audience. Another example of apocalyptic literature is the book of Daniel. In both texts, the author is presenting a situation in which the sufferings of the audience are assuaged by the promise of upcoming alleviation of suffering. Apocalyptic literature is very, very symbolic. It contains phrases and imagery that are meaningful to the intended audience, but not to anyone else. Scholars believe much of the imagery is to hide the message from unintended eyes. Imagine a Roman consul or governor catching sight of Revelation when instead of the “Beast” it said Nero Caesar. The already persecuted Christians would be further persecuted.
Angels are purely spiritual creatures that are gifted with a free-will. Satan, by nature an angel, was banished as the result of his free choice to distance himself from God. The modern concept of Hell is mostly incorrect: God doesn’t condemn people to go there, they choose to go themselves by totally rejecting God. Satan condemned himself by choosing to distance himself from God. His rejection is so complete that he forever operates in an antagonistic role opposite God. Where God wants reconciliation, Satan seeks rupture. Where God offers forgiveness, Satan prefers damnation.
Satan’s role is not necessarily to overthrow God. This would, as you point out, be rather stupid considering his banishment from Heaven was the direct result of his rejection of God’s authority (only the really dense would somehow think that, after getting beat down so thoroughly, they’d have a chance at payback). Throughout Scripture, Satan’s role is the Accuser, or the tempter. He seeks not to overthrow God’s kingdom, but to destroy, insofar as possible, God’s creations. Consider in Genesis, how he twists God’s warning to Adam to get Eve and Adam to sin…knowing they’d surely die. Then, we see in Job Satan attempting to afflict Job so much that Job curses God (which he does not). We see in the Gospels Satan tempt Jesus. These episodes are important. If Jesus’ Human Nature follows Satan’s temptations, than God’s plan for reconciling humanity with the Divine is defeated. God doesn’t suffer, but His creation does. This is what Satan is all about: bringing suffering to humanity. Satan’s war is not with God, but with us.
The omnipotence and omniscience of God is not in question, but rather, the extent of the knowledge of Satan. As you point out, it would seem that Satan would know of the unchangeable and inevitable fact that he would be defeated by God. However, one must consider the extent of Satan’s fall from grace and how much his pride and arrogance have blinded him to reality. Consider those individuals whose impressions of themselves are so inflated that they fail to recognize their shortcomings. We see them all time: arrogant s.o.b.s who think they are all that, when in reality they aren’t. In those cases, their inflated sense of self distorts their perception of reality. It doesn’t help when they are surrounded by ass-kissing sycophants that worship the very ground they walk on. When people are telling you that you can do no wrong, you begin to think that way.
It has happened far more often when, say, someone becomes a Christian.
[/quote]
Sure and that’s not right either.
[/quote]
I agree with you but then again our thoughts are subjective ones, no?
[/quote]
I would disagree that the sentiments you feel are subjective. The United States was founded on the fact that by virtue of their Humanity, all men were born with certain rights…among them freedom of conscience and freedom of Religion.
The problem that we have, not only in the US, but elsewhere, is that there are certain blowhards who want to push and push and push. I disagree with loudmouth atheists like Richard Dawkins as much as I disagree with loudmouth theists.
