[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I would just leave it and not draw out the crystals when drawing the injection. If the amount is minimal to the eye, it’s not more than few milligrams.
It’s not that you’d be getting a few milligrams per injection less than expected: you’d be getting a few milligrams less out of the entire vial than you had expected, if your weighing-out was perfect.
If it was imperfect, then quite possibly you’d still be getting more product than you expected, as the weighing error could well be more than those few milligrams.
If you see just a very small amount of material that is not dissolved, that means your vehicle is fully saturated, and it can’t (not stably, anyway) be more concentrated than that. Why dilute it with more vehicle?
If your vehicle (oil plus cosolvents) was measured out correctly, then you have as many mg/mL as your planned vehicle can hold.[/quote]
Yeah, its not that much at all. They are pretty nice crystals to be honest! I was worried that if i injected them by accident then it might hurt a bit, but it should be easy to keep them out. I think I might have miscalculated the volume of oil required and added less than neccessary. I’ll give it shot and see what happens!
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
Ok fellas, finished up my first batch of cyp yesterday. 2:10 BA:BB Grapeseed. 200mg/mL.
After sitting overnight, its crashed out somewhat. Its just the beginnings of a full crash (wispy crystals).
Should I…
Add more BB and re-sterilise (hassle)
Just warm it up before injection each time
I shot some yesterday and it was smooth as silk. That was before it crashed.[/quote]
Alas, TC from one manufacturer in china is also having issues. It’s prone to crashing as even 200mg/ml. Don’t know why but they should be resolving it. Also the cloudy tren ace.
If you did buy it from china, I suggest you email then and politely complain. After all, the more people who do, the more likely they are to action it.
BBB[/quote]
I was wondering about the quality of the powder, although its passed melting point and optical rotation spot on so I’m wondering what could on earth could be wrong with it to make it crash, I checked my volumes and calculations and although I was a bit off, it shouldn’t have been enough to make it crash. Having said that though, its not a normal crystallisation, like Bill said the actual mass of the precipitate will be tiny.
Does the crashy cyp happen to work as expected? I’m only two shots in so its hard to tell. The second shot was of the crashed stuff and its just as painless as when it was all in solution (Thanks Bill).
[quote]jstarks11 wrote:
Got some powders in and made my tren again, last time the powder seemed a little different, not as yellow. It did not seem as strong as it usually does. This time the powder is even less yellow and shit isn’t wanting to hold in solution. I think my source (who I’ve been with for 2 years now) is going bunk on me. If so then I’m fucked!
It took me months to find them!!! Here are some pics of the stuff, the one on the left is from last batch and is still holding in solution fine, the one’s one the right, hard to tell, but they are trying to crash and I brew the same everytime! Damnit, I’m thinking that there is some cutting material in the powder and they been putting more and more in every month. Shit doesn’t hit me like it used to either.[/quote]
I always use finapellets and Imake it. No one has sold me anything near that grade. Just my 2 cents
The solubility (for a generally-similar structure and molecular weight) is a function mostly of the melting point, which won’t necessarily be the same between different steroids even if the ester is the same.
But in most cases the melting points and solubilities will be similar with the same ester.
Masteron enanthate and trenbolone enanthate are commonly dosed at 200 mg/mL.
I wouldn’t formulate testosterone enanthate past 200 mg/mL, either.
Well guys, I’m officially a convert to home-made gear. Its fantastic. Its also kind of cool doing it yourself. I put a batch of NPP and some more cyp through last night, and having learned a few lessons the first time around with the cyp, it went smooth as silk. Its held solution this time, after increasing BB to 15%. The NPP looks dreamy too. I have a few questions though.
What is the maximum temperature you can use for sterilisation purposes? I’ve been using 95oC, for fear of damaging the hormone. I was also wondering if it is better to filter it hot than after letting it cool, I’ve been allowing it to cool to 40oC for fear of losing integrity of the filter membrane.
I’ve also gotta thank T-Driver again for the info he sent me. Using a caulking gun to apply pressure on a syringe to save your hands is pure genius!
There is no need to use any heat for sterilization when following proper procedure. I never do.
In terms of what would be the highest useful heat if determined to ultrapasteurize the preparation, the answer is about 70 C. Ultrapasteurization is ordinarily done a little hotter than that, but for a far shorter duration. Seventy C for a number of minutes will kill any pathogenic bacteria that are capable of being killed by reasonable heat. (There are spores that would not be killed by any temperature that the preparation could survive.)
Trenbolone acetate however browns fairly rapidly at 70 C.
Using heat to aid dissolution (which also is fundamentally unnecessary but does add convenience) I never use more than 55 C.
I’m just pretty much repeating what Bill has already said, but yes, heat is unnecessary and should certainly not be relied upon for sterility. Sterility will come from filtration (I would recommend a .22 or .2um filter over .45, as you occasionally see recommended). Heat does indeed help, though, in getting the hormone into solution very quickly and cleanly, and having the oil a little warm (not hot!) during filtration helps the process along, as well.
Congrats, MassiveGuns, on your first homebrewed batch. You’ll never (and should never) go back to UGL crap again!
[quote]Cortes wrote:
I’m just pretty much repeating what Bill has already said, but yes, heat is unnecessary and should certainly not be relied upon for sterility. Sterility will come from filtration (I would recommend a .22 or .2um filter over .45, as you occasionally see recommended). Heat does indeed help, though, in getting the hormone into solution very quickly and cleanly, and having the oil a little warm (not hot!) during filtration helps the process along, as well.
Congrats, MassiveGuns, on your first homebrewed batch. You’ll never (and should never) go back to UGL crap again![/quote]
Yeah, I’m pretty stoked about it actually. Its also so much cheaper! I could be juiced for life and its only gonna cost me a couple of g’s lol.
Ok guys, I shot my first shot of NPP yesterday at 150mg per mL. There’s nothing unusual about the gear, it didn’t crash, filtered nicely and has normal constistency and color. The raw material checks out for mp and optical rotation so I’m sure its NPP. I injected with normal speed (slow) after warming the oil and doing my usual routine. Today my quad hurts like a bitch. It’s not swollen or red, and it isn’t the usual type of injection pain I’ve experienced before. Its a generalised soreness.
Any ideas? Could 150 mg/mL be too much? The solvent system is 2:18 BA:BB in grapeseed oil, exactly the same reagents I used for the cyp (which is totally painless), slightly more BB. Should I try diluting the gear, or try another shot at a different site tomorrow?
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
You could try taking a single mL, or other small amount, putting it in a separate vial, and adding a single speck or particle of the original powder.
If the next day nothing really has happened, then your preparation is not overloaded.
If more crystals have formed, then it is overloaded.[/quote]
Update:
Seeded NPP solution. No crystals, guess thats not the reason.
Those original vials of cyp I made have FULLY crashed out of solution. The vials appear to have a solid mass of crystals inside. Not sure whats going on there. The second batch is still perfect in solution.
I recently made a batch of deca. Now that was interesting. That stuff has such a potent smell and is such a pain in the ass to handle. It took me a while to figure out I should put the damn stuff in the freezer before trying to work with it.
I made it up to 300mg/mL, and I probably overdosed it. Considering how easy it melts, and how quickly it dissolved, I get the impression that I could have easily have got 400mg/ml. Who knows maybe more? I was wondering, that even if you over saturated it, as long as you warmed the gear up each time before use, you could effectively get a super high conc. deca. And since its liquid at body temp, the chance of it crashing on injection is zero, so its unlikely to be painful. Have any of you more experienced guys tried this? I was thinking for the trifecta you could throw in 100mg/mL of NPP…lol. Any thoughts?
I’ve never made a Deca preparation so really can’t say. But definitely, more than the pharmaceutical 200 mg/mL value is possible even without any large amount of solubilizers.
On the cypionate, if both were made from the same material, then I’d suspect measurement error.
Even an only 10% error, though that’s a lot of error to refer to as “only,” could give the effect you are seeing. It doesn’t take grams of material, or even necessarily very many hundreds of milligrams, to give the impression of “everything” coming out.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I’ve never made a Deca preparation so really can’t say. But definitely, more than the pharmaceutical 200 mg/mL value is possible even without any large amount of solubilizers.[/quote]
I was surprised at just how soluble it was. I got over 300mg per mL with no BB and only 2% BA. Then again, considering the length of the ester and the m.p. , I’m not that surprised. I’m definately going to do some experiments and see what I can come up with.
What do you think about adding NPP? Will the presence of deca likely cause it not to dissolve at all? I was also wondering what you thought about the injection of a saturated deca solution, given its extremely low mp comparable to body temperature.
I’ll find out soon enough as I’m probably going to try it out at some point!
Solubilities are generally nearly independent. (The exception is where a solute is such a large percentage of the mixture that solute-solute interactions become more important than solute-solvent interactions.)
So in other words, the NPP will behave almost as if the ND isn’t there.
I really don’t know about injections of extremely concentrated solutions. I would avoid it, out of viscosity considerations if nothing else.
Thanks for the input Bill, Its good to know that about the NPP, I had a feeling it was like that, but I don’t know much about solutions in oil.
I think out of morbid curiosity I’m going to try it out anyway, just to see what can be done! Perhaps with the NPP I can get a 500mg/ml solution. It could also hurt like hell though!
I was also wondering about long term stability of homemade gear. Does it have a predictable shelf life? What can you do to extend it besides usual storage considerations?
The only steroid that to my knowledge could have a shelf-life issue would be trenbolone. Here the issue is oxidation. I store trenbolone preparations in the freezer if time to being fully used would be more than 2 months.