[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
JUST agel.
[/quote]
This is ALL I’ve taken for 8 years excluding two one-month stints on clomid and I’m perfectly fine.
How does your doc feel about you fucking around with other medication not prescribed by him/her and not discussing your concern about “shutdown” and/or symptoms with him/her?
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
JUST agel.
[/quote]
This is ALL I’ve taken for 8 years excluding two one-month stints on clomid and I’m perfectly fine.
How does your doc feel about you fucking around with other medication not prescribed by him/her and not discussing your concern about “shutdown” and/or symptoms with him/her? [/quote]
Well, he is admittedly not the most knowledgeable about this but is willing to learn and work with me. I mentioned the shut down issue to him but he said it should not be of concern and that we would get back together in 2 mo or so to figure it out.
With the rise in T from agel there is a rise in E. I have gyno, low libido, female fat storage issues, etc. Why would I risk that? If I can get E under control and that solves SOME T issues, why not try that first?
(This is by no means trying to negate your statement- you have me questioning my own thoughts now)
There is no “over-aromatization” of T, if T is in normal range (300 to 1000 ng/dl). If there was a problem, we’d have almost all of the non-hypogonadal male population having problems with elevated estradiol.
Obviously YOU have a problem if you have gyno. Where that stems from is beyond me (which is why seeking the appropriate help is called for), but there shouldn’t be a problem if one just takes Androgel and gets into the normal range of T.
I’m not trying to be a dick or challenge you. I just see so many people on here “trying things” and not going to the right doctors.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
There is no “over-aromatization” of T, if T is in normal range (300 to 1000 ng/dl). If there was a problem, we’d have almost all of the non-hypogonadal male population having problems with elevated estradiol.
Obviously YOU have a problem if you have gyno. Where that stems from is beyond me (which is why seeking the appropriate help is called for), but there shouldn’t be a problem if one just takes Androgel and gets into the normal range of T.
I’m not trying to be a dick or challenge you. I just see so many people on here “trying things” and not going to the right doctors. [/quote]
All good. I was trying to convince you to look at my thread and offer advice anyway. Besides, I agree, I should be going to the “right” doctor as opposed to just a doctor willing to help.
It’s something I will look into more. Thanks
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Go with KSman’s (an engineer) recommendation if you wish, rather than actually going to a first-rate physician (urologist-andrologist) who perhaps spent decades of his life on education and application and research. [/quote]
You make it seem like a urologist with an andrology fellowship are a dime a dozen. I’d like to know what phone book you are looking these guys up in. There is a reason that many of us are on here getting our info…our doctors are bloody idiots!!! Due to the nature of the biz and the ignorant portrayal of “roidz” in the media in recent years, finding a competent & willing doctor has been made even more difficult. edited for poor grammar
I also find it interesting you stated in an earlier post to have a “grown up conversation” with your doctor about your desired TRT usage–how are you supposed to do that if you aren’t educating yourself on all the options? Wouldn’t the OP talking to his doctor about KSman’s recommended eth+AI+hcg protocol fall in line with your talk to the doctor recommendation? He isn’t exactly going renegade by going to a QUALIFIED anti-aging doctor and requesting a specific protocol. He isn’t exactly twisting the doc’s arm to give it to him.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
There is no “over-aromatization” of T, if T is in normal range (300 to 1000 ng/dl). If there was a problem, we’d have almost all of the non-hypogonadal male population having problems with elevated estradiol.
[/quote]
This is simply not true. Some people’s bodies (hell, maybe even most) are able to naturally manage their E2 levels with an increase in T. I would imagine this population includes younger gentlemen and those that have never had high bodyfat levels. However the fact is that MANY people do have aromatization problems with increase in T, even if they are moving through “normal” ranges.
The increase in E2 due to higher T is very well documented–to the point that I don’t even know why you are debating it. It is awesome that you (as a young man with low bodyfat) didn’t experience the negative E2 side effects–many do.
It is definitely not a concern that I would just dismiss as bro-science, as you seem to make it out to be.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
[quote]randallh1989 wrote:
MY FRIEND was RX’d 2.5g as well and started dosing at 7.5g and felt a shit ton better, but was worried what was to happen to him after his Rx ran out really soon. It’s a mandatory call in for refills.[/quote]
Correct. This is why it’s a dumb idea to start fucking around with medicine without a prescription and why people need to communicate to the doctor like a grown adult (eg, “Doc, I don’t feel like myself at this dose. Do you think it’s OK if we go up to 7.5 or 10 grams?”) Is that hard to do?
[/quote]
Nope, that wouldn’t be hard at all if my doctor would actually talk to me and listen. Which is why I am going to a new one on Thursday, presenting the protocol i’d like to try and asking for her approval. I don’t think i’m too off base here.
Really interesting stuff Brick, thanks.
I had an allergic reaction to it, every area where I had applied it was the area that the sun would “fry” and cause little blisters that eventually led to peeling.
Just because this hasn’t happened to you doesn’t mean others aren’t affected differently.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
[quote]jhoward1102 wrote:
If you have enough to do so (or can get a refill after talking to Dr. about how much better you feel) you might want to try 10G. I was first put on 5G of testim which after several weeks had no positive effect… On my own I tried 10G (after doing a lot of research on results others have had) and it made a noticible difference with me. Sex drive up, but some shrinkage, some add strength and better focus, anger & moodiness more stable.
With me both gels caused bad skin rashs, and sun exposure to it would cause me to get sunburn that led to peeling skin. :([/quote]
This shit dries up in 30 to 60 seconds. How does it predispose one to more severe sunburns.
Most sunburns cause peeling skin. [/quote]
Men have an age related increase in aromatase. So older men on TRT with youthful T levels will tend to convert more T than young men with the same T levels. Men also have age related increases in SHBG, with could be partly a result of higher aromatase activity. As men tend to gain fat with age, part of the increase in aromatase would seem to be a direct increase in %BF. We know that less FT/Bio-t and more E increase BF and less T leading to less muscle, reduces calorie burn rates. This is a classic unstable system. From an engineering point of view, as a control system, is is a very flawed and unstable design.
[quote]KSman wrote:
Men have an age related increase in aromatase. So older men on TRT with youthful T levels will tend to convert more T than young men with the same T levels. Men also have age related increases in SHBG, with could be partly a result of higher aromatase activity. As men tend to gain fat with age, part of the increase in aromatase would seem to be a direct increase in %BF. We know that less FT/Bio-t and more E increase BF and less T leading to less muscle, reduces calorie burn rates. This is a classic unstable system. From an engineering point of view, as a control system, is is a very flawed and unstable design.[/quote]
Yeah, so you’re basically saying aging stinks - which it does.
Definitely worse for women.