Androderm Usage and Bone Loss?

Pharma TRT
1

Hi guys, so I’ve been a grump for ages, unmotivated and had many of the standard symptoms of low testosterone, but finding out that my bones were disapearing at an alarming rate (I am 35 and have Osteopenia and found out this because my brother has it as well).

So with some testing and some nudging of my doctor I have been able to get onto the Androderm patches.

I have to say that they are fairly amazing for me so far, very happy. But I had a couple of questions and to be honest as you all know the internet is a great place to find nothing, especially on this topic. Its people like yourselves that have used the product that are the experts, doctors seem not much use on this one.

So my big questions:

  1. I know it will reduce my natural testosterone production, is there a way that I can counter this? I was thinking that maybe I should put a new patch on each morning and take it off after showering at night. That would leave me without a patch for sleep, would this allow my body to feel the urge to create its own? Maybe its a bad idea, maybe not. Maybe someone has a better idea than this so I am open to options.

  2. As mentioned, my bones are running away from me (lost 9.5% of bone mass last year). I hope santa brings me more bones this year for christmas. Testosterone is a valid treatment for low bone density (and bone loss is a symptom of low testosterone), does anyone have any experience on this? Am I likely to see any bone density increase? Or should it at least keep the problem in check?

NOTE: I am 1 month into treatment of the 5mg patch, I feel better, and think I am dropping body fat. Its easier to train and I feel much better (less stress, less crazy, less crappy), no negative side effects (just find the patch glue annoying to remove).

I have just joined the forum, I stumbled across it in my research a couple of months ago, brilliant source of info, I hope that I can find someone on here with a bit of knowledge to share on it.

Fingers crossed and many thanks for the info already found on here,

Luke

2

1 is a bad idea. You are going to be shut down on TRT, and intermittent dosing will not prevent this. Hcg is the only way that I know of to maintain some natural production while on exo T.

The bone loss should be helped by your TRT. Make sure you get your vitamin D levels checked via bloodwork, and supplement if they are not on the high side of normal. Weight bearing exercise will help as well. I was in the same boat you were in (diagnosed osteopenia) and raised my bone density 18% over 3 years (via DEXA testing) by a combination of vit D supplmentation, TRT, and heavy weight training (i.e. lots of squats and deadlifting). Good luck.

3

Please post lab data, before and after TRT.

4

Sure, here are some numbers:

Bone Density - Oct 2011
Spine: Young % 83.5, T-score -1.5, age match % 85.2, z score -0.92
Hip: Young % 74.1, T-score -2.29, age match % 79.7, z score -1.67

Bone Density - May 2012
Spine: Young % 78.8, T-score -1.34, age match % 80.5, z score -1.21 (an annualised loss of about 9.5%)
Hip: Young % 73.3, T-score -2.37, age match % 79.1, z score -1.72

Cholesterol
Oct 2011 - Total 4.1 nmol/L, Tri 0.4 nmol/L
July 2011 - Total 3.8 nmol/L, Tri 0.6 nmol/L, HDL 1.0nmol/L, LDL 2.5 nmol/L

Testosterone / Hormones
July 2012 - Test 8.0 nmol/L (range is 8.0 - 30.0 for those on the other scale)
- SHBG 31 nmol/L (range 17 - 66)
- FAI 25.8 nmol/L (range 23.3 - 103)

       - Prolactin 5.5nmol/L

         not further tests yet

Vit D
Oct 2011 - 46 nmol/L
July 2012 - 72 nmol/L (goal is 100, working on it with 4000IU per day)

EDIT
Thyroid (Oct 2011)
TSH - 1.09 (normal range 0.35 - 5.5mUI/L)

Lipid Studies (Oct 2011)
Total Chol - 4.1 mmol/L
Triglyceride 0.4 mmol/L

There is no followup blood work just yet, and I do have other results from tests, but nothing in there that I think is usefull (Haematology, glucose, PSA, thyroid, growth hormone (just the basic test, not the propper test)

I will get some more tests once my prescription for the patches runs out (a couple of months away). At the same time I will get a new DEXA and see how that has gone

PCDUDE - I dont know anything about HCG, in my 12 second google it looks like an injectable, so is my doc likely to prescribe? I know people have enough of a hard time getting patches so I am counting myself lucky. Do you know of any bad side effects of HCG? It sounds like its not genarally prescribed for this, but works. Also sounds like something that they might give after my bits shrink, but not as a preventative, amd I reading this right?

Sounds like you had good results wiht that though, I am difinitely hitting the weights (6 days a week) and heavy. 18% is a fantastic result, better than what you are likely to expect from Bisphosphonates and without the nasty that comes with it. Ok, 1 is a bad idea, that sucks but better to feel good, can always sort out the other problems it causes later, better to feel good now and be a bit broken later than to be broken now and feeling crap as well.

I haven’t read all of the stickies, to be honest I was not sure where to start. I have read a lot, but from many sources. How do I find the stickies? I can see quite a few topics with quite a few posts, but its hard to know what threads to start reading.

Thanks,

Luke

5

please provide thyroid data and ranges
any cholesterol ranges? -edit into you post above
have you been reading the stickies?

6

I’ve thrown those figures into the above post, I’ve been reading some of the stickies, but some of the info on testing is way over my head for the moment. I’ll keep looking, but hopefully someone with a similar situation can provide some further info on how they have been going.

Fingers crossed.