Had a quick look for Jeff Cooper on the internet. It was as I suspected, gun hick with a commercial interest in selling weapons. We should really listen to him.
PRCal, we take the approach that it is better to prevent gangsters getting guns, thus preventing the shootout.
[quote]AndyG wrote:
Had a quick look for Jeff Cooper on the internet. It was as I suspected, gun hick with a commercial interest in selling weapons. We should really listen to him.
PRCal, we take the approach that it is better to prevent gangsters getting guns, thus preventing the shootout.[/quote]
And with it, guarantee that you will be an unarmed citizenry incapable of defending yourselves against a corrupt government.
Australia started off as a prison, and it looks like it will end up the same way. No rights, no self-defense, no balls.
[quote]hardgnr wrote:
I really fail to see the dire need to own a gun…its got nothing to do with freedom either, I don’t buy that bullshit.[/quote]
If you lived in Detroit you would get a different view. But because you live in a country with low crime you can take your safety for granted. For now. Just because you don’t see the need doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Instead because it isn’t right now blatantly glaring you in the face you assume things will never change for the worse.
Gun ownership has a lot to do with freedom. In order to make gun control work you have to infringe freedom and give the police ever increasing power to monitor, search and arrest people.
[quote]AndyG wrote:
Had a quick look for Jeff Cooper on the internet. It was as I suspected, gun hick with a commercial interest in selling weapons. We should really listen to him. [/quote]
Again you denegrate people who make a valid point by attacking them as being some kind of untermensch.
[quote]
PRCal, we take the approach that it is better to prevent gangsters getting guns, thus preventing the shootout. [/quote]
I have to call bullshit on that one. You take the view that it is better to prevent law abidng citizens from having the means of defending themselves because you are more concerned about criminals getting hurt than innocent citizens being safe.
Sifu we will do our best to prevent anywhere in Australia becoming like Detroit by restricting gun ownership.
Rainjack, I was hoping you’d post here so you could qualify your statements by saying that no-one cares what a pussy, estrogen filled Yank thinks on a thread about Australian domestic policy, but I digress.
You are right, if the executive government did manage to retain complete control of the army while terrorising its citizens we’d be fucked. But so would you.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
AndyG wrote:
Had a quick look for Jeff Cooper on the internet. It was as I suspected, gun hick with a commercial interest in selling weapons. We should really listen to him.
Again you denegrate people who make a valid point by attacking them as being some kind of untermensch.
PRCal, we take the approach that it is better to prevent gangsters getting guns, thus preventing the shootout.
I have to call bullshit on that one. You take the view that it is better to prevent law abidng citizens from having the means of defending themselves because you are more concerned about criminals getting hurt than innocent citizens being safe.
[/quote]
There was no valid point made in the Cooper quotes on here.
The second part of your statement is an emotive, fear mongering piece of bullshit.
[quote]AndyG wrote:
Sifu wrote:
AndyG wrote:
Had a quick look for Jeff Cooper on the internet. It was as I suspected, gun hick with a commercial interest in selling weapons. We should really listen to him.
Again you denegrate people who make a valid point by attacking them as being some kind of untermensch.
PRCal, we take the approach that it is better to prevent gangsters getting guns, thus preventing the shootout.
I have to call bullshit on that one. You take the view that it is better to prevent law abidng citizens from having the means of defending themselves because you are more concerned about criminals getting hurt than innocent citizens being safe.
There was no valid point made in the Cooper quotes on here.
The second part of your statement is an emotive, fear mongering piece of bullshit.
[/quote]
Whatever, kiddo.
It’s Australia. I care more about the dogshit in my neighbor’s yard than I do about anything you have to say.
[quote]AndyG wrote:
Had a quick look for Jeff Cooper on the internet. It was as I suspected, gun hick with a commercial interest in selling weapons. We should really listen to him.
PRCal, we take the approach that it is better to prevent gangsters getting guns, thus preventing the shootout.[/quote]
There is no way of doing so. Have you stopped illegal drug sales in your country?
Everything to a liberal is “fearmongering.”
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Everything to a liberal is “fearmongering.” [/quote]
Maybe they get scared easily?
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
You fail to see it because either A) you have never carried a gun, B) you have never tasted actual freedom, or C) both.[/quote]
What does actual freedom taste like?
How does not owning a firearm rob me of this true freedom?
[quote]AndyG wrote:
Sifu wrote:
AndyG wrote:
Had a quick look for Jeff Cooper on the internet. It was as I suspected, gun hick with a commercial interest in selling weapons. We should really listen to him.
Again you denegrate people who make a valid point by attacking them as being some kind of untermensch.
PRCal, we take the approach that it is better to prevent gangsters getting guns, thus preventing the shootout.
I have to call bullshit on that one. You take the view that it is better to prevent law abidng citizens from having the means of defending themselves because you are more concerned about criminals getting hurt than innocent citizens being safe.
There was no valid point made in the Cooper quotes on here.
The second part of your statement is an emotive, fear mongering piece of bullshit.
[/quote]
Again you have failed to make a valid point so you resort to slogans. It is not fear mongering to point out what can happen when things go wrong.
By your standards it would be fear mongering to tell someone “wear your seat belt so you don’t get thrown trough the windshield in an accident”.
From what I have seen the mentality of Australians is essentially the same as the British. The British care far more about the well being of criminals than the well being of law abiding members of society.
[quote]AndyG wrote:
Had a quick look for Jeff Cooper on the internet. It was as I suspected, gun hick with a commercial interest in selling weapons. [/quote]
It must have been an extremely quick look if that’s all you “learned.” Colonel Cooper, rest his soul, was neither a “hick,” nor did he have a commercial interest in “selling weapons.”
He was a highly educated and intelligent man who devoted his life to ensuring that law-abiding, free men and women learned skill-at-arms, in accordance with their constitutional right.
Yes. You really should.
Oh? I counted at least three.
Valid Point Number One: That manufacture and use of personal weapons were what allowed homo sapiens to attain a dominant position on this planet.
Valid Point Number Two: That of all personal weapons so far manufactured and used, the rifle is the most highly-developed example so far.
Valid Point Number Three: That possession of a good personal weapon (preferably a rifle) and the skill to use it is one of the principal differences between being a free man, and not being one.
Our particular dialect of the English language is influenced more by Spanish than by Aboriginal languages (which is why most Americans can go for entire days without uttering words like wallaroo and kookaburra). You may have been confused by the terms caballero and peon, so allow me to explain.
A caballero is the Spanish word for “horseman,” but it also implies nobility and gentility. In times past one might translate the word caballero as “knight,” although today we might get by with the word “gentleman.”
A peon, on the other hand, is a simple peasant. A member of the proletariat. A cog in the social wheel.
A cognate of the word peon is the word “pawn,” in the sense both of “the lowest-ranking piece in a game of chess,” and especially, “someone used by another for political purposes.”
The difference between the the peon and the caballero is the same today as it was in medieval times, in feudal Japan, during the Roman Empire, the Greek empire, and in every Empire preceding it. The knight and the citizen have the right to bear arms. The peasant and the slave do not.
Interesting thing about the pawn in a chess game, though. Once he makes it to the other side, he becomes the most powerful piece on the board. I like to think that the peon, finally having gotten fed up with getting peed on, has picked up the Queen of weapons, and made himself a knight.
I’m mixing my metaphors a bit, but I hope you aren’t too confused.
I would like to say, though, that regardless of the stereotypes you may believe, a love of weapons and skill in their use does not make one a “hick.” I have lived in the country. I have also lived in a variety of cities throughout the world. I am neither provincial nor unintelligent.
Furthermore, I think the millions of doctors, lawyers, teachers, writers, philosophers, and successful businessmen in this country who have cultivated the art of shooting for competition, for hunting, for self-defense and for fun, would agree with me, and would take vehement exception to your somewhat puerile and simplistic position.
Thank you for your attention.
[quote]sands wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
You fail to see it because either A) you have never carried a gun, B) you have never tasted actual freedom, or C) both.
What does actual freedom taste like?
How does not owning a firearm rob me of this true freedom?[/quote]
Because you and your fellow citizens have no means of imposing your will collective action upon your government. Whatever liberties you do enjoy are purely at the discretion and magnanimity of the powers that be.
Let me ask you something. Isn’t it still the law that all Australians must vote in elections and if you don’t vote the police will come and take you to a polling place to cast your ballot?
A democracy where the police force people to vote is not people to vote is not a democracy, because you don’t have freedom of choice.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
AndyG wrote:
Sifu wrote:
AndyG wrote:
Had a quick look for Jeff Cooper on the internet. It was as I suspected, gun hick with a commercial interest in selling weapons. We should really listen to him.
Again you denegrate people who make a valid point by attacking them as being some kind of untermensch.
PRCal, we take the approach that it is better to prevent gangsters getting guns, thus preventing the shootout.
I have to call bullshit on that one. You take the view that it is better to prevent law abidng citizens from having the means of defending themselves because you are more concerned about criminals getting hurt than innocent citizens being safe.
There was no valid point made in the Cooper quotes on here.
The second part of your statement is an emotive, fear mongering piece of bullshit.
Again you have failed to make a valid point so you resort to slogans. It is not fear mongering to point out what can happen when things go wrong.
By your standards it would be fear mongering to tell someone “wear your seat belt so you don’t get thrown trough the windshield in an accident”.
From what I have seen the mentality of Australians is essentially the same as the British. The British care far more about the well being of criminals than the well being of law abiding members of society.
[/quote]
The fear mongering part of your statement is that the govt cares more about the well being of criminals than the well being of law abiding members of society. That is the biggest load of rubbish I’ve heard in my life. The purpose of gun laws is to stop criminals getting their hands on guns. You are either very fucking stupid for not realising this, or very fucking stupid for trying to twist it into something that it obviously is not.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
sands wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
You fail to see it because either A) you have never carried a gun, B) you have never tasted actual freedom, or C) both.
What does actual freedom taste like?
How does not owning a firearm rob me of this true freedom?
Because you and your fellow citizens have no means of imposing your will collective action upon your government. Whatever liberties you do enjoy are purely at the discretion and magnanimity of the powers that be.
Let me ask you something. Isn’t it still the law that all Australians must vote in elections and if you don’t vote the police will come and take you to a polling place to cast your ballot?
A democracy where the police force people to vote is not people to vote is not a democracy, because you don’t have freedom of choice. [/quote]
You just have to rock up. You’re allowed to cast a donkey vote. There is a fine for not rocking up.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Let me ask you something. Isn’t it still the law that all Australians must vote in elections and if you don’t vote the police will come and take you to a polling place to cast your ballot?
A democracy where the police force people to vote is not people to vote is not a democracy, because you don’t have freedom of choice. [/quote]
You just get a small fine. Come on now. And you can just say you had a cold and felt unwell.
Seriously though, this concept of Aussies being less free than Americans must stop.
We are as free as you. The public has told the government (which is formed by the people’s representitives) to go and fuck itself over the issue of Interweb censorship.
Wait and see what happens, my friend. No censorship will occur.
BUT if it did? I should storm parliament house with my rifle? No. That would be pointless an ineffective.
AND Voting is not just a right but a duty but that’s another topic…
My major worry is not having sites censored (because anyone who puts in a little effort can get past the filters), but the slow down of our connection speeds.
I wish the government would hurry up and improve our internet infrastructure so we can be in the same league as the rest of the developed world.
[quote]Spry wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Let me ask you something. Isn’t it still the law that all Australians must vote in elections and if you don’t vote the police will come and take you to a polling place to cast your ballot?
A democracy where the police force people to vote is not people to vote is not a democracy, because you don’t have freedom of choice.
You just get a small fine. Come on now. And you can just say you had a cold and felt unwell.
Seriously though, this concept of Aussies being less free than Americans must stop.
We are as free as you. The public has told the government (which is formed by the people’s representitives) to go and fuck itself over the issue of Interweb censorship.
Wait and see what happens, my friend. No censorship will occur.
BUT if it did? I should storm parliament house with my rifle? No. That would be pointless an ineffective.
AND Voting is not just a right but a duty but that’s another topic…
[/quote]
What are you talking about? I got machettied in the leg last time I didn’t vote!
[quote]AndyG wrote:
Sifu wrote:
AndyG wrote:
Sifu wrote:
AndyG wrote:
Had a quick look for Jeff Cooper on the internet. It was as I suspected, gun hick with a commercial interest in selling weapons. We should really listen to him.
Again you denegrate people who make a valid point by attacking them as being some kind of untermensch.
PRCal, we take the approach that it is better to prevent gangsters getting guns, thus preventing the shootout.
I have to call bullshit on that one. You take the view that it is better to prevent law abidng citizens from having the means of defending themselves because you are more concerned about criminals getting hurt than innocent citizens being safe.
There was no valid point made in the Cooper quotes on here.
The second part of your statement is an emotive, fear mongering piece of bullshit.
Again you have failed to make a valid point so you resort to slogans. It is not fear mongering to point out what can happen when things go wrong.
By your standards it would be fear mongering to tell someone “wear your seat belt so you don’t get thrown trough the windshield in an accident”.
From what I have seen the mentality of Australians is essentially the same as the British. The British care far more about the well being of criminals than the well being of law abiding members of society.
The fear mongering part of your statement is that the govt cares more about the well being of criminals than the well being of law abiding members of society. That is the biggest load of rubbish I’ve heard in my life. The purpose of gun laws is to stop criminals getting their hands on guns. You are either very fucking stupid for not realising this, or very fucking stupid for trying to twist it into something that it obviously is not.
[/quote]
The purpose of the gun control laws in Britain has been for the purpose of supressing rebellion when the government does things like cancels elections and denies the people important votes, which it has done. It also allows priviledged minorities to be able to sieze power.
The treatment of murderers under British law is a joke. Human life has very little value in the UK. Gun control there has done nothing to stop criminals. You are delusional if you think it has done something to reduce crime. The crime arguement is just an excuse.