No reason to start right out on anything other than the Test. If this is a TRT protocol and you are only aiming for mid to high end of normal range, the other drugs shouldnt be needed. I have been on TRT 8 years and never needed any of that.
I suspect this is a HRT clinic and not a traditional doctor. A traditional urologist or endocrinologist would never do this. Beware
Thank you for the feedback man
Itās unlikely the person at this HRT clinic dishing out these protocols is a doctor at all, often a doctor is writing these cookie cutter protocols remotely, and thatās why the protocols are all the same, with no individualized treatment, which would require the doctor to be present at the clinic.
This is how a lot of these HRT clinics operate.
Thankfully they were open to doing Test without anastrazole. I appreciate all the feedback guys.
can enclophomine increase lh while on test?
^^^^
What about if they tapered off test, at what point in time is the body able to start LH productionā¦ Yeah I know the standard wait 14-21 days after last shot, but that seems illogical,., there has to be a point in time where the body will utilitize clomid before that.
Why does that seem illogical?
Given the HL of the injected AAS an be days to weeks depending on the ester, timing your SERM usage with the clearance of the AAS makes the most sense.
Your pituitary will only start back up after ALL exogenous T is out of your system. Tapering only prolongs until this happens.
For me, it took 4.5 weeks after stopping TRT cold turkey.
I need an acronym dictionary. 
Can someone link me to Websterās Performance Enhancement, Collegiate Edition?
Your test was low but not super low to begin with, a lot of docs wouldnāt have even started TRT yet. But your symptoms were not good, so youāre fortunate that your doc did. In the same way, you say you are feeling good now. I would say, trust your doc, donāt overthink it. Itās normal for adjustments to be made in the beginning. Itās not just the numbers on the test, but should be driven by your personal symptoms and response.
I havenāt used enclomiphene so I really canāt comment on your protocol. I use 150mg testosterone cypionate per week decided into twice a week injections. I inject 350IU HCG twice per week to prevent testicular atrophy and I use a very small amount of anastrozole based on symptoms. Generally 1/4mg every one to two weeks.
This gets my total T level to the top of the range while maintaining an optimal estradiol level and my testicles remain normal size.
Iāve been around for a long time and this not right or normal. Iām not getting into all the reasons, some comments touch on it already. But the only way YOU can be sure is go to another clinic and get a second opinion. Absolutely a must, not everyone doing TRT is infallible.
So I read through all the responses and, in my opinion, mnben87 has given you the best advice.
First, I believe that 150mg/week is too high of a starting dose. Most guys can achieve the 75th to 100th percentile of both their Total and Free T ranges with closer to 100mg/week. I always suggest starting there and then let the labs after about 6 weeks direct you to what you should do.
Secondly, an aromatase inhibitor is usually not needed if you follow the first bit of advice. 1 mg of adex is probably going to tank your E2 levels and that will just make you feel worse and/or give you a bad case of ED. Itās an irony of Mother Nature that guys need E2 too, especially for erections and libido. Most guys are paranoid of E2 because they read the bodybuilding lore. One needs to keep in mind that BBs are usually taking much higher doses of T and combining it (stacking) with other anabolics that have progestin-like activity. This may work great for adding muscle, but the combination of E2 + progesterone (like activity) is a deadly combination for gyno.
Thirdly, Iād drop the enclomiphene and go with standard HCG if testicular shrinkage and/or fertility are issues for you. Iāve seen no good evidence that enclomiphene (or clomid) can actually affect LH or FSH production while on TRT. Iāve been using HCG at doses of 500-1000 IU/week for over 10 years and it works great for me for maintaining testicular volume.
Fourthly, Iād push for more frequent dosing, a minimum of twice per week but I prefer E2D or E3D dosing myself. By breaking the dose up into smaller injections you solve a lot of potential problems with the added benefit of being able to drop the needle size for more comfortable injections. In my experience, the more frequent you dose, the lower that T dose needs to be to get the same effects.
Finally, I leave you with one last bit of advice, beware of the advice you get in these forums (even my own) because it is unfiltered and coming from guys with varying levels of experience and education in endocrinology. Most of us are not healthcare professionals and most of us have no clinical training. On the other hand, I also read posts from guys who are put on questionable protocols by docs with little or poor training in TRT. They often have a one-size-fits-all approach to prescribing protocols and that can be dangerous.
Good luck in finding you way through this information maze!
Am 59. Started prescribed TRT at 43 at 180mg Test C per week. Over last 15 years have increased to 220mg per week in divided dose split 110mg per dose. All these years on TRT never needed an AI. Estrogen has never rose above 57 and is currently around 28.an AI should āonly be introducedā if your current AAS protocol increases E2 to levels outside the bell curve based on age and other blood labs hormone levels. Not just because you are on TRT in of itself. Mind you, dieting and cardio is your friend in lowering Estrogen as well and increasing insulin sensitivity. So get some of that chode lazy couch potato fat off. Reclaim your life young man. Get yourself nutritionally smart and employ the Test injections for the first 90 days along with a good plan to execute losing some fat. Revisit bloodwork at 90 days and adjust or introduce the adjuncts based on what your hormone values show.
Iām 46. First month in on TRT. 150mg broken up into 3 doses M/W/F. No AI. I felt a little symptomatic last week, itchy nipples, but it went away. Iām guessing Iām still adjusting and fluctuating a little especially with activity level. I hadnāt worked out in a few days and as soon as I did I feel like everything improved again. With future changes I feel like I want to have an AI on hand just to maybe spot treat with a small dose if I notice symptoms start. I do have a friend that ended up with gyno but I donāt have his full story about his onset of symptoms.
I plan on trialing enclo after my first recheck of labs. I donāt care about fertility. Iām clipped. But I still like the idea of maintaining testicular function. Plus if you donāt use something then you also donāt maintain other hormones like DHEA, Pregnenolone. Iāve been reading above a lot of mention of clomid side effects like itās the same thing, itās not. This is the first Iāve ever heard any mention of it giving no benefit. I definitely would consider HCG instead if this was the case. Since I already have a bottle of enclo on hand and ready to goā¦ I will skip the anecdotal evidence and see for myself. Excited to try it out.
Feeling better now that I have started TRT, is what I meant by that. Lol itās hard not to overthink it when there are so many thought processes on this. Today was actually the first day Iāve felt run down. I took the anastrazole 1mg the first week, then opted not to take it this week. However, I did start enclomiphene 25mg twice weekly. So, Iām not sure why I feel cloudy headed.
The anastrazole will prevent the testosterone from being converted into estrogen. My doctor didnāt prescribe it until my labs came back with high estrogen levels But is there any reason that you are skipping it?
I just didnāt want to take it until it was needed and I felt like I was getting a cookie cutter protocol. I spoke with them about it and she said that if your estradiol is over twenty, she does a miligram a week, and if under, she will do a half a miligram a week. But she was open to trying without. My estradiol was 26. But like I said, today, I got kinda fuzzy headed and just feel kinda blah. Only changes were stopping anastrazole after one dose (last week) and starting enclomiphene 25 mg twice weekly this week.
Thatās insane and reckless! This seems to mirror what KSman had been preaching for years, keeping estrogen <20 and sounds more like itās from the bodybuilding world, not a part of TRT.
Normal healthy estrogen for an adult male is 20>, seen men labs show 16 pg/mL and an osteoporosis diagnosis to go along with it. I have seen this repeat over the years in several individuals labs on this very forum.
Where is the governing body to put a stop to this quackery. This clinic gives TRT a bad name!
A 1mg anastrozole for estrogen 20>, really?!