hel320 and soldog – thanks for the feedback.
I really appreciate it.
Crud. Somehow the messages alert/etc. got turned off. Just realized I had several private messages stacked up waiting for me now that I’m back from vacation.
Sorry to everyone I did not respond to with more dispatch.
I hope I’ve got that fixed. Now, off to work, more stuff piled up there while I was on vacation.
[quote]Elaikases wrote:
skidmark wrote:
Both, in my opinion, though I know nothing of grappling. Nothing like an uninformed opinion to base your training on, eh? 
you can get both from the Nautilus Pullover machine or the Hammer Strength Seated Rower. With the later the hands start from above the head and end up around the rib cage.
I’ve thought it was grip that was important for grappling? Like I said, I’m ignorant of grappling.
Or arm over arm thick rope climbing. That’ll give you all three advantages. Gotta work up to that though.
Yeah, but you are flipping strong skidmark, and that says a lot in my book.
I wish they had a Nautilus Pullover Machine, sigh.
Can I work both rows and pull-ups into a work out without the exercises cannibalizing each other?
I’m about to flatten out the rows when I get back to moving the entire stack on the machine again, so that might be a good time to add the pull-ups back in.
Thanks for helping me think.
(and yes, next thing to do is to find a rope -grin- too bad they’ve taken them out of about every place for fear of injuries).
[/quote]
You can though you can’t really max out on both at the same time. At least it works that way for me. I like to alternate which I’m going to go heavy on and which I’m going to rep out on and that has seemed to work pretty well for me.
I do the one planned for heavy first and then the rep one in a session. Seems to keep the strength going up without beating me up.
I’m using that strategy for Squats/deads these days too. After a while you can’t do both heavy - it just becomes too much stress for the body to recover from. Upper body recovery is quicker than lower body for some reason, I’ve noticed.
Saturday’s workout. Missed the morning (too busy mowing the yard and then taking my kid to a swim party), but after lunch and grocery shopping, made it before closing.
Bent-over dumb bell rows: 65 lb x 11 reps +1 rep
Wood chop 190 lb x 8. -7.5 lb. -1 rep
I’m seriously thinking of moving to reverse wood chops. The New Rules of Lifting suggests both, at different times, I think it might be the time to switch. I know I’ll take a weight hit, probably 40 or more pounds, but I’m feeling like I need a change to keep progressing.
Shoulder press 75 lb x 9 reps, +2.5 lb + 1 rep.
Cable Triceps Extension 100 lb x 9 reps +2.5 lb, +1 rep
“Bodyweight” squats 20 lb 36 reps, +2 reps.
Rotations (external and internal – the rotator cuff exercises) 20 lbs x 10 reps each of the extensions on each arm.
Neutral Grip Pull-ups 4 x body weight; 4 at -20 lbs (20 lbs of support).
That isn’t a bad place to start. Lets see how the progress goes.
I can tell when I’m close to my personal max – when I take a lay off my weights drop. If I’m a distance from it, I can keep improving weights and reps as if I’d worked out when I wasn’t.
So, the wood chop, less weight and lost a rep.
But shoulder press (where I suspect I could make a larger jump, but I’m using it as a warm-up for the cable triceps extensions) and the cable extensions, good jump.
Rotator cuff rotations, I’ll probably move to 2.5 lb weight increments next time.
I’m looking forward to making some progress on the pull-ups so that I’ll need the dip belt for them.
Guess it is just a matter of patience.
I’m feeling good to be back. May have to sneak in early Friday morning next week to fit my wife’s plans, but I’d rather miss a little sleep than miss a work-out this soon after a lay-off.
[quote]skidmark wrote:
You can though you can’t really max out on both at the same time. At least it works that way for me. I like to alternate which I’m going to go heavy on and which I’m going to rep out on and that has seemed to work pretty well for me.
I do the one planned for heavy first and then the rep one in a session. Seems to keep the strength going up without beating me up.
I’m using that strategy for Squats/deads these days too. After a while you can’t do both heavy - it just becomes too much stress for the body to recover from. Upper body recovery is quicker than lower body for some reason, I’ve noticed.
[/quote]
That’s what I’m trying to figure out. I think moving the work-out and the split around like I am will help that work for me.
Thanks again for the suggestions and the help.
[quote]soldog wrote:
Elaikases wrote:
Can I work both rows and pull-ups into a work out without the exercises cannibalizing each other?
Doing both DB bent over rows and chin-ups in one workout has been working well for me…
Just a data point.[/quote]
Sometime I start my back training with 2 or 3 sets of chins.Funny how you can row some good weight and still have your work cut out for when you chin.
[quote]Jimmy T wrote:
Sometime I start my back training with 2 or 3 sets of chins.Funny how you can row some good weight and still have your work cut out for when you chin.
[/quote]
That is an excellent point. Thanks. I had hoped that getting my row up would inflate my chins a lot more 
BTW, thought I’d explain my handle.
Back in the 70s I had a CYBERNET handle that was pretty 70s, all in all. When I got an account with GNN, it was taken, but I picked up SRMarsh@gnn.com and all was well.
Then AOL swallowed GNN with the idea of trying to learn what an ISP should be. Someone else already had SRMarsh so I had to switch handles. My Cybernet one was taken (which was annoying, someone remembered it and thought it was neat – I’m grateful now, I’d rather not have that handle) and I ended up with Ethesis.
When I used “Ethesis” it was before the E-thesis people (arghhh). Anyway, that handle has a lot of backstory with it and when I started a log here, I just wanted to be me, so I grabbed the name of an old D&D character for my handle.
Kind of the name I use when I’d like to be anonymous. Guess it is kind of ruined for that now. Guess I’ll have to pick another “e” name next time I need a handle somewhere.
But that is the story.
For what Ethesis is connected with most, Living Beyond Loss -- Surviving Grief, Loss and the Death of Children / Death of a Child -- Survival (warning, not a safe link, all in all).
Thanks for sharing your website and blog. There’s a lot of feeling and faith in those pages.
I can’t read it all at once.
350 lb x 21 reps, hip abduction warm-up
340 lb x 15 reps, +1 rep (will use for just a warm-up when I get to 21 reps) hip adduction
lateral raise 162.5 x 8 +2.5 lb +1 rep
Dip belt +22.5 lb x 8 reps. Tried some reps without the belt afterwards, got one. Guess I was closer to failure at the end than I realized.
Seated row, 302.5 lb x 9 reps, +2.5 lb.
Delt Fly machine 22.5 lb x 8 reps, +2.5 lb
Cable Curl using the rope grip, 102.5 x 10
I’m excited by how quickly I’m making progress. at +2.5 lb per week, that is ten lbs a month. I’m excited to look at 150 lb curls and hoping to reach that.
Abdominal on slant, +15 lb x 9 rep, +3 lb. Hmm, don’t think I can make the jump directly to the 20 lb dumb bell, I might combine a couple dumb bells or something to reach 18 lb next time.
Back Extension 345 lb x 10 reps. +40 lb over the machine max. I’ll plateau at 350 x 10 I think and perhaps add one more exercise to this weekly set. Not sure what.
A little sore. Just realized, I’ve been a little sore in my mid back, about five inches up from my belt line on the right, every work-out for the past six months. The soreness is always gone by Thursday. I’ll have to think about just what it is that lends itself to that place getting sore.
Good day. Drove over to Decatur for a hearing, then down to Dallas to mediate a case. Got home just in time to pick up my daughter from my mom’s (she picked her up from the after school care just in case I got home too late).
Anyway, I’m grateful, tired and happy with the work-out.
Sounds like a full day topped off (or started) with a great training session. Stay safe with this new storm forming out there. It’s days away but a little planning never hurt (yeah, I know, preaching a bit…)
[quote]soldog wrote:
Sounds like a full day topped off (or started) with a great training session. Stay safe with this new storm forming out there. It’s days away but a little planning never hurt (yeah, I know, preaching a bit…)[/quote]
My wife just called and said the same thing. I’m going to go to bed and see what it looks like in the morning. I might just stay in Dallas. Last time a storm blew in when we were going to go down, we canceled and a tornado hit the place we would have been staying at.
More excitement than I needed right then
Nice workouts E, you’ve made a lot of improvement.
[quote]Elaikases wrote:
…
Dip belt +22.5 lb x 8 reps. Tried some reps without the belt afterwards, got one. Guess I was closer to failure at the end than I realized.
…
[/quote]
Good work, Elaikases. Things start happening fast when you begin to add to bodyweight. I wouldn’t fool much with shifting down to BW after the weighted dips until later, if at all: someone who weighs 200 is only dropping 10 per cent anyway by putting the 22.5 aside, which, like you said, if you are working the movement hard will likely not result in anything more than a comparable pause would have brought. I have found it is often best for intensity to focus only on doing as many of a weighted movement as possible without the thought in the back of my mind of afterwards finishing off with BW only.
[quote]1Geech wrote:
Elaikases wrote:
…
Dip belt +22.5 lb x 8 reps. Tried some reps without the belt afterwards, got one. Guess I was closer to failure at the end than I realized.
…
Good work, Elaikases. Things start happening fast when you begin to add to bodyweight. I wouldn’t fool much with shifting down to BW after the weighted dips until later, if at all: someone who weighs 200 is only dropping 10 per cent anyway by putting the 22.5 aside, which, like you said, if you are working the movement hard will likely not result in anything more than a comparable pause would have brought. I have found it is often best for intensity to focus only on doing as many of a weighted movement as possible without the thought in the back of my mind of afterwards finishing off with BW only.[/quote]
Thanks, I’m generally a single set guy, I was just curious
Currently, I’m weighing in during the mornings at 175-176, at night at 177 or so. My goal is to eventually reach 160.6. I’m currently 5’5" (I was taller before I lost weight – I’ve shrunk from 5’6" to 5.5 1/2 and now to 5’5" – which was quite a surprise to me. I thought my 20 year old had grown a little more).
Made that early morning work-out, now off to court.
Changed to reverse wood-chops. Darn, those work the muscles differently. If I want the arm extensions I have to drop to about 110 or 120. Just the torso twist, only to 160 or 170.
I think I want the arms. I’ll make up my mind next week.
Otherwise, a good work-out, improved on everything.
[hr] -------------------------------------- Still thinking on the reverse wood-chops. If I pull it to my body and then twist, I work the core. I get all the core exercise that way that I'm after, along with a pull (reverse is low to high). I'm thinking of breaking it into two sets. One at 110 to start, where I pull in, twist and extend out. May even do that with some speed on the positive and the negative.
The second set, at 160 to start, where I pull in and then twist with my obliques while holding the rope handles over the opposite side of my chest. That way I can still get a solid core work-out.
I’ll get it thought through by next week.
Never heard of these, so I looked them up.
Is this what you mean by the version with arm extension:
trainwithmeonline.com/exercise_115_Reverse_Woodchop_w_Thera-band.html
[quote]1Geech wrote:
Never heard of these, so I looked them up.
Is this what you mean by the version with arm extension:
trainwithmeonline.com/exercise_115_Reverse_Woodchop_w_Thera-band.html
[/quote]
Very close.
I start in a basic stance and reach to full extension towards the weight stack (I’m using a cable system, with a rope grip). Then pull in across the body and up. Full extension means extending out at the end like the guy in the video.
Non extension means turn the body and using only the mid-section muscles to turn the body.
Classic woodchops start high and go low. But I’m not using the exercise to also work my legs like the guy in the pictures is.
I got the exercise from Alwyn Cosgrove’s The New Rules of Lifting. page 177 for the wood chop (as weight got up I needed a wider stance) and page 178 for the reverse woodchop.
Down I got to 197.5 lb. But I needed a weight belt in order to keep my feet on the ground. Eventually I had always planned to switch to the reverse, figured it was time.
Now I find my arm strength isn’t strong enough to get my torso the rotation exercise I want. I’m thinking now I’ll do a set with the full extension and then also do a set that works my torso harder. That would be two sets, but each set would work my body differently.
Hope that helps.
Some videos:
What frustrates me, a bit, is that in reversing the woodchop I did not get as much transfer as I expected. Pulling down and pushing down with my arms didn’t seem like it would be that much different than pushing up.
On the other hand, what I really want to work is the core, and I’m aware that the down pull was using my lats too. The up pull seems to work the obliques more directly. The torso rotation is doing the real work on the muscles I want worked, so I’m not sure that I need the extension, especially as I have other things I’m doing to work the arms.
On the other hand, I’m reluctant to give up the full form exercise, which is why I’m thinking of doing two sets.
Any advice or suggestions or comments welcome.
[quote]Elaikases wrote:
What frustrates me, a bit, is that in reversing the woodchop I did not get as much transfer as I expected. Pulling down and pushing down with my arms didn’t seem like it would be that much different than pushing up.
On the other hand, what I really want to work is the core, and I’m aware that the down pull was using my lats too. The up pull seems to work the obliques more directly. The torso rotation is doing the real work on the muscles I want worked, so I’m not sure that I need the extension, especially as I have other things I’m doing to work the arms.
On the other hand, I’m reluctant to give up the full form exercise, which is why I’m thinking of doing two sets.
Any advice or suggestions or comments welcome.
[/quote]
Just my opinion - keep the full form of the exercise and let the weakest link govern the weight. Seems like the best way to keep in balance and reduce the chance of injury.