And true.
[quote]uberswank wrote:
Government property and your property are the only two places that one can ban smoking. And yes I will go so far as to say it is ok for day-care providers to smoke. The responsibility falls upon you as a parent to not place your kids in that daycare. Most parents wouldn’t want this, so said daycare will soon go out of business. This is how free and voluntary association deals with these types of problems rather than ceding the government more power because of the sheer laziness of parents in raising their children as they see fit.
And before you ask, if your neighbor is smoking and it is coming on to your property, then you have a right to ask him to desist.
[/quote]
So what you are saying is that we should allow everything everywhere and leave it up to the people to decide if they want to put themselves in that situation? On some levels and with some items I would say you are correct.
I still disagree on the smoking because that is allowing something that is a known harm to people in areas that are accessible to the general public, whether they have a right to be there or not.
Do you get equally pissed that you can’t sell alcohol to 8-year-olds?
Back to the development over years, I am also a gun owner. However, I had to move out of DC in order to own my weapons. And this is the capitol of the country.
If the Founding Fathers were to walk around and see what we have become they would turn over in their graves.
The problem is the progression. First restaurant owners had to ban smoking. Now some have to ban trans fat. Next they will have to ban, who knows, they haven’t been forced to yet. But the key is that they will.
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
So what you are saying is that we should allow everything everywhere and leave it up to the people to decide if they want to put themselves in that situation? On some levels and with some items I would say you are correct.
[/quote]
Yes, that is traditionally how customs and culture are created organically, rather than imposed from above by government. If the overwhelming majority of people didn’t like smoke, there would be one place on the outskirts of town allowing it, if that.
If it is harmful why would you, as the a member of the general public, be there in the first place? Do you walk through dangerous neighborhoods just because they are accessible to the general public?
Also, I am allergic to perfume and body odor. Can we apply your reasoning to those as well? Or just certain pet peeves?
Vehicle exhaust is far more dangerous than second hand smoke. In fact it can kill within minutes. When are we going to ban cars?
[quote]
Do you get equally pissed that you can’t sell alcohol to 8-year-olds?[/quote]
Do you get equally pissed that as a parent you are the one to have to keep your 8 year old out of bars and away from stange men offering alchohol?
Of course the politicians interfering in everyone’s life don’t want people owning guns around them 
[quote]uberswank wrote:
If the overwhelming majority of people didn’t like smoke, there would be one place on the outskirts of town allowing it, if that.[/quote]
Seems to be how things are right now.
That’s not the point. The real question is why are the rights of the smokers more important than the rights on the non-smokers?
Are you a racist now? Why would a neighborhood be “dangerous”?
Allergic to body odor? So are you allergic to yourself, as everyone has body odor at some point?
How many people have died from vehicle exhaust from cars on streets, not in closed spaces? There is a big difference there. Either way it’s a stretch.
No. It’s my job as a parent.
[quote]uberswank wrote:
However, I had to move out of DC in order to own my weapons. And this is the capitol of the country.
Of course the politicians interfering in everyone’s life don’t want people owning guns around them :p[/quote]
it is kind of ironic how DC is one of the most violent cities with one of the highest fire arm murder rates too.
although history shows that more bans and regulations are sure to come, it also shows that people only take so much before they push back. i wonder how far they can push, especially with supplements. a bunch of roided muscle heads couldn’t be fun to deal with.
My point exactly.
[quote]texasguy wrote:
it is kind of ironic how DC is one of the most violent cities with one of the highest fire arm murder rates too.
[/quote]
How is it, that the simplist of analogies I made (smoking ban and supplement ban) and others made still clearer, is STILL so misunderstood?
One has the right to enter a _______(privately owned business open to the public). You no NOT however have the right to dictate to the owner of that establishment how he/she operates said business.
I know far a FACT that pancakes, syrup, sausage, homefries, waffles, french toast, bagels, doughnuts and muffins contribute to type 2 diabetes. (anyone want to argue THAT?). Do you think you can force this diner I mentioned to stop serving those things too?
How is it any different with smoking?
If you want to eat Omega 3 eggs with spinach, broccoli and fat free cheese with flax toast and mineral water for your fish oil caps for breakfast, stay the hell home and quit your bitchin’ about those that don’t mind stuffing thier face with shit food. If they want to die fat and diabetic in 40 years, let them you Nazi’s!
If you don’t smoke, DON’T GO IN! (and don’t cry about it either, communism is DEAD, get over it).
By the way, I fucking HATE cigarette smoke. Always have, always will. I also think smoking is idiotic. I just realize that I don’t have the right to tell people what to do in thier privately owned businesses.
They DO have a right to keep you out if they want to. Maybe you’d be forced to leave because your a non-smoker? What could you do? You have the right to be there with the owner’s permission only. That’s why bars have bouncers.
Agreed w/ Uber and Derek. I was a bartender for a few years. The shit people think they can pull and get away with under the guise of ‘It’s a public place!’ is fucking ludicrous.
No, almost no place is a ‘public place’. It’s a privately owned business. If you don’t like the way they conduct themselves or their rules, YOU DON’T HAVE TO GO THERE! YOU made the choice when you pulled your car up and walked in. And they can veto your choice and make you leave by the fact that THEY OWN IT. You don’t, you don’t make the rules.
You want to use the public place theory, go to the damn park. And guess what? People smoke there too, lol. The only place you’re going to go that you can’t be asked to leave or thrown out of is an outdoor place. Then they can throw you IN the police car, and IN to jail. Face it- if you don’t own it, you don’t make the rules. And even if you do own it, some of the rules you still don’t make.
Is it right? No, probably not in all cases, but for the most part, especially business owners, I agree. You cant walk into some guys movie theatre and yell through the whole fucking movie and throw stuff everywhere and then go “Hey, it’s a public place…Can’t kick me out!”
Kubo
[quote]derek wrote:
How is it, that the simplist of analogies I made (smoking ban and supplement ban) and others made still clearer, is STILL so misunderstood?
One has the right to enter a _______(privately owned business open to the public). You no NOT however have the right to dictate to the owner of that establishment how he/she operates said business.
I know far a FACT that pancakes, syrup, sausage, homefries, waffles, french toast, bagels, doughnuts and muffins contribute to type 2 diabetes. (anyone want to argue THAT?). Do you think you can force this diner I mentioned to stop serving those things too?
How is it any different with smoking?
If you want to eat Omega 3 eggs with spinach, broccoli and fat free cheese with flax toast and mineral water for your fish oil caps for breakfast, stay the hell home and quit your bitchin’ about those that don’t mind stuffing thier face with shit food. If they want to die fat and diabetic in 40 years, let them you Nazi’s!
If you don’t smoke, DON’T GO IN! (and don’t cry about it either, communism is DEAD, get over it). [/quote]
It’s not misunderstood at all. It just isn’t really relevant.
As to the crappy food- if eating crappy food (the ones you listed) is going to give innocent bystanders (who aren’t eating it) Diabetes- then yes I would say the government would look at trying to get you to quit serving it. The government isn’t banning smoking to help people who smoke to quit because it bad for them, it’s helping the innocent people who have to breathe in the smoke.
How is that so hard to understand?
[quote]MikeKubo wrote:
Agreed w/ Uber and Derek. I was a bartender for a few years. The shit people think they can pull and get away with under the guise of ‘It’s a public place!’ is fucking ludicrous.
No, almost no place is a ‘public place’. It’s a privately owned business. If you don’t like the way they conduct themselves or their rules, YOU DON’T HAVE TO GO THERE! YOU made the choice when you pulled your car up and walked in. And they can veto your choice and make you leave by the fact that THEY OWN IT. You don’t, you don’t make the rules.
You want to use the public place theory, go to the damn park. And guess what? People smoke there too, lol. The only place you’re going to go that you can’t be asked to leave or thrown out of is an outdoor place. Then they can throw you IN the police car, and IN to jail. Face it- if you don’t own it, you don’t make the rules. And even if you do own it, some of the rules you still don’t make.
Is it right? No, probably not in all cases, but for the most part, especially business owners, I agree. You cant walk into some guys movie theatre and yell through the whole fucking movie and throw stuff everywhere and then go “Hey, it’s a public place…Can’t kick me out!”
Kubo[/quote]
You may not have to let me in your bar, but if the government says you can’t allow smoking or use trans fat- by god you have to obey them.
That’s enough justice for me.
[quote]derek wrote:
I know far a FACT that pancakes, syrup, sausage, homefries, waffles, french toast, bagels, doughnuts and muffins contribute to type 2 diabetes. (anyone want to argue THAT?). Do you think you can force this diner I mentioned to stop serving those things too?
[/quote]
New York City has passed legislation banning Trans Fat in all its restaurants and food serving establishments. Chicago has similar pending legislation on the books. Big brother has gotten the diner to stop serving those things.
This being said, I agree with you 100%
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
As to the crappy food- if eating crappy food (the ones you listed) is going to give innocent bystanders (who aren’t eating it) Diabetes- then yes I would say the government would look at trying to get you to quit serving it.
How is that so hard to understand?[/quote]
Second-hand smoke can’t hurt you if you don’t go in! Simple, huh?
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
You may not have to let me in your bar, but if the government says you can’t allow smoking or use trans fat- by god you have to obey them.
That’s enough justice for me.[/quote]
The government is not always right.
With that attitude, you should’ve been around in the 1600’s-1700’s. The goverments could’ve used you to oppress your fellow peasants!
[quote]derek wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
You may not have to let me in your bar, but if the government says you can’t allow smoking or use trans fat- by god you have to obey them.
That’s enough justice for me.
The government is not always right.
With that attitude, you should’ve been around in the 1600’s-1700’s. The goverments could’ve used you to oppress your fellow peasants! [/quote]
There are obviously more people who think like me then there are that think like you, otherwise the law wouldn’t exist.
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
There are obviously more people who think like me then there are that think like you, otherwise the law wouldn’t exist.[/quote]
No, it’s because people like you become beaurocrats and make asinine laws and regulations while people like me work for a living and keep the country running.
[quote]derek wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
There are obviously more people who think like me then there are that think like you, otherwise the law wouldn’t exist.
No, it’s because people like you become beaurocrats and make asinine laws and regulations while people like me work for a living and keep the country running.[/quote]
If I were a politician I would take offense to that, but since I work for a living too and likely create a larger contribution to society than you, I won’t.
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
derek wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
There are obviously more people who think like me then there are that think like you, otherwise the law wouldn’t exist.
No, it’s because people like you become beaurocrats and make asinine laws and regulations while people like me work for a living and keep the country running.
If I were a politician I would take offense to that, but since I work for a living too and likely create a larger contribution to society than you, I won’t.[/quote]
I couldn’t care less about what you contribute to society as I’m sure no one else here does but if bragging makes you fell better…
I’m a small business owner. I and millions of others like me (along with our hard-working employees) are the rails that keep this country on the right track.
The problem is that it’s mostly people that think they know better than the general public, that they know what’s best for us, that they know how to run our lives that get into office year after year.
The people like me and a few others in this thread believe that in general, the individual is perfectly capable of taking care of themselves.
I don’t know about you but I haven’t had a babysitter for a very long time and I certainly don’t need someone like you looking out for my “best interests”.