Alarm System and No Gun

Charlie_Horse · June 7, 2011, 9:08am

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]etaco wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Of course, I disagree with you (maybe semantics). A camera system is a deterrent like everything else on the list. Everything on that list can be “defeated”. For instance, I can cause a power failure, bring a simple ladder, defeat your alarm system, cause your dog to be poisoned a week prior, etc. We both know the point is to make your house less a target than the next.

[/quote]

It’s like that old apologue or whatever you want to call it about a bear coming on two guys at a camp site. One guy puts on his running shoes while the other asks why he’s wasting his time doing that since he can’t possibly outrun a bear. The guy with his shoes on says, “I only need to outrun you.”

What percentage of break-ins qualify as actual home invasions or proper armed robberies? I’m assuming it’s a pretty small proportion. What percentage of those are randomly targeted?[/quote]

Love that joke.

Not sure about the point you’re trying to make though.

If I were concerned about a home invasion (If I were such a target, or I was consulting for such a target), I’d be talking about safe rooms, locking (and fortifying) bedroom doors at night, etc. That said, home invasions are becoming more common and anyone thought to have a decent sum of cash in the house are common targets (from drug dealers to immigrant store owners). I know of several well-publicized home invasions in the Philadelphia area the last few years (and those are just the incidents I’m aware of and were widely reported) and immigrant store owners were the targets. Hell, one just happened in the suburbs of NJ recently.

I’m curious, what point were you trying to make?[/quote]

We’ve had a few of those home invasions here too (Frazer Valley BC) and it seems like a lot of the homes being invaded belong to the elderly. :-/

SexMachine · June 7, 2011, 9:53am

[quote]pushharder wrote:

All of the above is plumb ridiculous when we know that claymores will do the trick more simply and efficiently.[/quote]

You should also sleep with Dillon minigun. You never know when you’ll encounter a PCP fueled junkie human wave attack.

rrjc5488 · June 7, 2011, 9:53am

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]etaco wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Of course, I disagree with you (maybe semantics). A camera system is a deterrent like everything else on the list. Everything on that list can be “defeated”. For instance, I can cause a power failure, bring a simple ladder, defeat your alarm system, cause your dog to be poisoned a week prior, etc. We both know the point is to make your house less a target than the next.

[/quote]

It’s like that old apologue or whatever you want to call it about a bear coming on two guys at a camp site. One guy puts on his running shoes while the other asks why he’s wasting his time doing that since he can’t possibly outrun a bear. The guy with his shoes on says, “I only need to outrun you.”

What percentage of break-ins qualify as actual home invasions or proper armed robberies? I’m assuming it’s a pretty small proportion. What percentage of those are randomly targeted?[/quote]

Love that joke.

Not sure about the point you’re trying to make though.

If I were concerned about a home invasion (If I were such a target, or I was consulting for such a target), I’d be talking about safe rooms, locking (and fortifying) bedroom doors at night, etc. That said, home invasions are becoming more common and anyone thought to have a decent sum of cash in the house are common targets (from drug dealers to immigrant store owners). I know of several well-publicized home invasions in the Philadelphia area the last few years (and those are just the incidents I’m aware of and were widely reported) and immigrant store owners were the targets. Hell, one just happened in the suburbs of NJ recently.

I’m curious, what point were you trying to make?[/quote]

I think the point he was trying to make was:

If a house even ONLY has an alarm system (and stickers on the doors/windows/etc) and a visible surveillance system, that may be enough if your neighbor next door doesn’t have shit and has poor lighting and overgrown brush.

You don’t have to necessarily protect from home invasion, just make yourself less prone to it than everyone else around you, lol.

Despite growing up in a middle/upper class neighborhood, recently home invasions and robberies (sometimes armed and there was even an incident where the intruder tied up a family while he robbed the house - scary shit) have become pretty popular to the point where, over the summer, they were happening quite a few times per week all throughout town.

Recently, a good family friend of ours was involved in two seperate incidents - she was woken up in the middle of the night by a police car tearing ass down the street because there was a robbery down the block, then all of a sudden she saw her motion sensor spotlight in the backyard go on, so she called 911 to let them know - a minute later, a cop was at her door with a german shephard… Turns out the robber was hiding under her back deck.

The dog found him and dragged his ass out despite the officer giving him two chances to surrender on his own, lol. I bet he regret that decision.

Then a few months later they were robbed of wallets and electronics that they left on the first floor. Still no alarm system, but it was around 4:45AM that this happened, and our friend happens to be a teacher, so she woke up around the same time and walked to the bathroom - the robber heard the commotion upstairs and eventually left, however, before doing so, he searched through the kitchen drawers until he found a chefs knife. Police said that the robber likely heard the noise upstairs, figured the person was coming downstairs, and was ready to stab them in order to get away safely.

There were other times in the middle of winter in NY, we’d wake up and find footprints that ran through our and a few other neighbors’ backyards when there was snow on the ground.

Scary fuckin’ shit.

And again, this isn’t even a shitty neighborhood I’m talking about.

Also, re: lighting, I wonder if motion sensor lights would ultimately be a better deterrant than constantly lit ones. Think about it like how Mike Tyson said “everyone’s got a plan until they get hit” haha… A robber is going to take a minute to case the place and come up with a plan on the best way to stay hidden, best place of entry, etc…

So, if he goes about his plan and all of a sudden a light turns on and lights the area up, that’s basically the less obnoxious equivalent to an alarm system going off and might give him a quick scare strong enough to get him to leave.

I don’t know. Thoughts?

2busy · June 7, 2011, 11:24am

[quote]pushharder wrote:
All of the above is plumb ridiculous when we know that claymores will do the trick more simply and efficiently.[/quote]

Which claymore?

This type?

or this type?

I only have experience using the first…

EDIT: lol, maybe I should have scrolled up and looked at ph’s picture…

limburg · June 7, 2011, 11:45am

Or if you just don’t want to have mini shrubs, plant super-thorny ones in front of windows.

Keep pots of boiling oil on the roof.

Decorate the exterior of your home with police tape or biohazard signs.

On the serious side, the location of you home may help too. If you live in a subdivision, pick a home in the back, far away from the way out. Know your neighborhood so that you would recognize a strange car. A place where no one would just wander by.

TheBodyGuard · June 7, 2011, 1:52pm

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:

Also, re: lighting, I wonder if motion sensor lights would ultimately be a better deterrant than constantly lit ones. Think about it like how Mike Tyson said “everyone’s got a plan until they get hit” haha… A robber is going to take a minute to case the place and come up with a plan on the best way to stay hidden, best place of entry, etc…

So, if he goes about his plan and all of a sudden a light turns on and lights the area up, that’s basically the less obnoxious equivalent to an alarm system going off and might give him a quick scare strong enough to get him to leave.

I don’t know. Thoughts?

[/quote]

Someone casing a place would easily determine that the home had motion sensors. I don’t have them but I know they can easily be “triggered” and I wonder if, like car alarms in the City, people don’t start ignoring them.

I think excellent lighting is a helluva deterrent but we all know break-ins occur in broad daylight too. I think a combination of prevention is the best you can do, because each has a functional or practical weakness.

TheBodyGuard · June 7, 2011, 1:59pm

[quote]limburg wrote:
Or if you just don’t want to have mini shrubs, plant super-thorny ones in front of windows.

Keep pots of boiling oil on the roof.

Decorate the exterior of your home with police tape or biohazard signs.

On the serious side, the location of you home may help too. If you live in a subdivision, pick a home in the back, far away from the way out. Know your neighborhood so that you would recognize a strange car. A place where no one would just wander by.

[/quote]

I live outside town, on some land. All the women in my life since I moved here have been afraid of this place at night. Me? Right now, my bedroom window is open and I can’t…hear any signs of human life (other than passing cars). And I love that. I hear birds of various type, some roosters in the distance (neighbor down the road), an occasional bark from one of my dogs and oh, the trash truck passed by earlier to pick up trash. That’s it.

There is one way in and only one way out and to get out you have to travel 1 1/2 miles to get to a road where you could escape. A stray car hanging around would definitely raise suspicion and anyone walking around would generate suspicion. I guess on balance, I’m pretty safe in spite of my relative seclusion.

Nards · June 7, 2011, 2:24pm

[quote]NvrTooLate wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
For anyone really interested in their home safety, in no particular order:

Good lighting. Flood lights, lights pointed at house or areas of potential entry, etc.
Keep bushes and shrubbery trimmed to eliminate any blinds or hiding spots.
A good fence. Yes, you can climb a fence, but doing so attracts attention, slows down ingress/egress (entering and escape).
A dog. Does not have to be a “guard” dog breed. Any dog that will bark (alarm) is suitable. Houses with dogs that bark are generally avoided. Barking attracts attention, alerts the homeowner and sometimes neighbors.
A good alarm system. Like a barking dog, a tripped alarm will alert the homeowner and neighbors.
Cameras. Would you break-in to a property with obvious video surveillance? It’s actually not that expensive these days. Plaster the signs visibly around the property.
Guns are a personal choice, but not ideal. First, you have to be absolutely sure you’ll use it. Second, if found, it can be used against you. If you do not take any of the previous precautions, you can literally be awoken by the burglar or sleep thru a break-in. If your gun is stored somewhere (especially if you have children in the home), it may not be available for you to use.

In my opinions, numbers 1, 2 and 5 are critical. 4 is my preferred “optional” (including 1,2,5). 5 is next, followed by 6 and 3, with 7 being the last needed “option”. If you have 1-9 you are pretty damn safe.

One way to consider this is as follows; the actuaries at insurance companies set insurance rates based on risk. If you have an alarm, your rate is discounted. ALARMS therefore do work. If you had 1-6 (with the exception sometimes of certain dogs under number 4) your risk (and rates) would be very much lower.

Gun ownership on the other hand does not get you a discount, you often need a rider to insure the value of the guns themselves and I know of at least one carrier that was rumored to be dropping coverage for homeowners with guns. [/quote]

I agree with everything but the camera portion of your post. Being in the security industry, I do know that cameras are nothing more than a deterrent when it comes to break-ins (great during business hours in a commercial setting.)

Rarely does camera footage result in charges. The only way cameras benefit a system in a break-in situation is when they are integrated for interfaced with the intrusion system. I could get into the whole integration thing but I’m already starting to annoy myself with this long post.

All other advice is great. In all fairness I know nothing about bouncing or bodyguarding (is that right term?)[/quote]

OR…we could just sleep with a Marine!

dollarbill44 · June 7, 2011, 6:34pm

I have punji pits under every window on the first floor. My whole family shits in them so the sticks are nicely coated with bacteria. I set up my claymore’s every night inside each door.

DB

NvrTooLate · June 7, 2011, 10:49pm

[quote]Nards wrote:

[quote]NvrTooLate wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
For anyone really interested in their home safety, in no particular order:

Good lighting. Flood lights, lights pointed at house or areas of potential entry, etc.
Keep bushes and shrubbery trimmed to eliminate any blinds or hiding spots.
A good fence. Yes, you can climb a fence, but doing so attracts attention, slows down ingress/egress (entering and escape).
A dog. Does not have to be a “guard” dog breed. Any dog that will bark (alarm) is suitable. Houses with dogs that bark are generally avoided. Barking attracts attention, alerts the homeowner and sometimes neighbors.
A good alarm system. Like a barking dog, a tripped alarm will alert the homeowner and neighbors.
Cameras. Would you break-in to a property with obvious video surveillance? It’s actually not that expensive these days. Plaster the signs visibly around the property.
Guns are a personal choice, but not ideal. First, you have to be absolutely sure you’ll use it. Second, if found, it can be used against you. If you do not take any of the previous precautions, you can literally be awoken by the burglar or sleep thru a break-in. If your gun is stored somewhere (especially if you have children in the home), it may not be available for you to use.

In my opinions, numbers 1, 2 and 5 are critical. 4 is my preferred “optional” (including 1,2,5). 5 is next, followed by 6 and 3, with 7 being the last needed “option”. If you have 1-9 you are pretty damn safe.

One way to consider this is as follows; the actuaries at insurance companies set insurance rates based on risk. If you have an alarm, your rate is discounted. ALARMS therefore do work. If you had 1-6 (with the exception sometimes of certain dogs under number 4) your risk (and rates) would be very much lower.

Gun ownership on the other hand does not get you a discount, you often need a rider to insure the value of the guns themselves and I know of at least one carrier that was rumored to be dropping coverage for homeowners with guns. [/quote]

I agree with everything but the camera portion of your post. Being in the security industry, I do know that cameras are nothing more than a deterrent when it comes to break-ins (great during business hours in a commercial setting.)

Rarely does camera footage result in charges. The only way cameras benefit a system in a break-in situation is when they are integrated for interfaced with the intrusion system. I could get into the whole integration thing but I’m already starting to annoy myself with this long post.

All other advice is great. In all fairness I know nothing about bouncing or bodyguarding (is that right term?)[/quote]

OR…we could just sleep with a Marine![/quote]

awe shucks, (blushing) sometimes sleeping with a Jarhead can be hazardous. I once woke up from a bad dream and yelled at my wife for falling asleep on watch.

NvrTooLate · June 7, 2011, 10:57pm

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]NvrTooLate wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
For anyone really interested in their home safety, in no particular order:

Good lighting. Flood lights, lights pointed at house or areas of potential entry, etc.
Keep bushes and shrubbery trimmed to eliminate any blinds or hiding spots.
A good fence. Yes, you can climb a fence, but doing so attracts attention, slows down ingress/egress (entering and escape).
A dog. Does not have to be a “guard” dog breed. Any dog that will bark (alarm) is suitable. Houses with dogs that bark are generally avoided. Barking attracts attention, alerts the homeowner and sometimes neighbors.
A good alarm system. Like a barking dog, a tripped alarm will alert the homeowner and neighbors.
Cameras. Would you break-in to a property with obvious video surveillance? It’s actually not that expensive these days. Plaster the signs visibly around the property.
Guns are a personal choice, but not ideal. First, you have to be absolutely sure you’ll use it. Second, if found, it can be used against you. If you do not take any of the previous precautions, you can literally be awoken by the burglar or sleep thru a break-in. If your gun is stored somewhere (especially if you have children in the home), it may not be available for you to use.

In my opinions, numbers 1, 2 and 5 are critical. 4 is my preferred “optional” (including 1,2,5). 5 is next, followed by 6 and 3, with 7 being the last needed “option”. If you have 1-9 you are pretty damn safe.

One way to consider this is as follows; the actuaries at insurance companies set insurance rates based on risk. If you have an alarm, your rate is discounted. ALARMS therefore do work. If you had 1-6 (with the exception sometimes of certain dogs under number 4) your risk (and rates) would be very much lower.

Gun ownership on the other hand does not get you a discount, you often need a rider to insure the value of the guns themselves and I know of at least one carrier that was rumored to be dropping coverage for homeowners with guns. [/quote]

I agree with everything but the camera portion of your post. Being in the security industry, I do know that cameras are nothing more than a deterrent when it comes to break-ins (great during business hours in a commercial setting.)

Rarely does camera footage result in charges. The only way cameras benefit a system in a break-in situation is when they are integrated for interfaced with the intrusion system. I could get into the whole integration thing but I’m already starting to annoy myself with this long post.

All other advice is great. In all fairness I know nothing about bouncing or bodyguarding (is that right term?)[/quote]

Of course, I disagree with you (maybe semantics). A camera system is a deterrent like everything else on the list. Everything on that list can be “defeated”. For instance, I can cause a power failure, bring a simple ladder, defeat your alarm system, cause your dog to be poisoned a week prior, etc. We both know the point is to make your house less a target than the next.

Resulting “charges” is irrelevant. If there are “charges” to be had, there has been a failure (e.g., a break in or crime). We both know that if someone is determined there is no fool proof means to safeguard yourself or your property. If they can get to a President…

It’s “personal or executive protection”. The same “risk management” principles apply. It’s all just “risk management” in my opinion. And, I’ve consulted on Estate protection and cameras certainly have their place. If money were no object, armed security, roving patrols of the estate grounds - and even that can be defeated.

As for cameras, I love them. Nothing like viewing your property from the comfort of your home or remotely (many now are accessible over the internet). And, they have been affordable for quite some time now.

[/quote]

I think we are in agreement. Making your house less of a target is the end goal as it pertains to the OP’s question. I’m such a hypocrite. Being in the industry, I have the yard signs stating that I have a system but no actual system. I live in a nice area and I don’t really feel threatened.

On the subject of cameras though, I am jaded. I’ve seen so much camera footage where the aggressor has carte blanche and there is nothing the building owner can do about it. I’ve seen beautiful video of break-ins taking place and the bad guys get away. The problem is that 95% of all alarms are false. This creates a trained apathy with the Police. They are not in a big hurry to get to the alarm no matter what they tell you.

I’m impressed with your knowledge. (this is the part where I pay you a real compliment to make sure we ended up on a good note)

TheBodyGuard · June 8, 2011, 2:58am

[quote]NvrTooLate wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]NvrTooLate wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
For anyone really interested in their home safety, in no particular order:

Good lighting. Flood lights, lights pointed at house or areas of potential entry, etc.
Keep bushes and shrubbery trimmed to eliminate any blinds or hiding spots.
A good fence. Yes, you can climb a fence, but doing so attracts attention, slows down ingress/egress (entering and escape).
A dog. Does not have to be a “guard” dog breed. Any dog that will bark (alarm) is suitable. Houses with dogs that bark are generally avoided. Barking attracts attention, alerts the homeowner and sometimes neighbors.
A good alarm system. Like a barking dog, a tripped alarm will alert the homeowner and neighbors.
Cameras. Would you break-in to a property with obvious video surveillance? It’s actually not that expensive these days. Plaster the signs visibly around the property.
Guns are a personal choice, but not ideal. First, you have to be absolutely sure you’ll use it. Second, if found, it can be used against you. If you do not take any of the previous precautions, you can literally be awoken by the burglar or sleep thru a break-in. If your gun is stored somewhere (especially if you have children in the home), it may not be available for you to use.