[quote]Sifu wrote:
Germany is useless as a world power. They just sit back do nothing and let everyone else do the dirty work. [/quote]
You mean that they mind their own business.
[quote]joebassin wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
[quote]Bambi wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]Bambi wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
It’s easy for you to sit back and talk shit because your people killed six million Jews. Your reputation with the Iranians and Al Qaeda is golden.
[/quote]
Absolutely pathetic argument.
[/quote]
The fact that you actually think this is really an “argument” is what is pathetic.[/quote]
How so? That little aside from Sifu had no bearing on the argument. If you want to criticise Orion’s argument, and by all means do, bringing acts he had no bearing or possibility of bearing on is lazy, derivative and stupid. It undermines any point he wishes to make. [/quote]
Obviously it is going over your head. If one were to make a list of the countries who have the most at risk if the Iranians are allowed nuclear weaponry it is not Austria and Germany that would be at or even remotely near the top of the list.
Since Orion is arguing the point of view that we are making a big fuss over nothing it needs pointing out that he is not directly in the line of fire. It is easy for him to talk smack as the course of his life never takes him into a large American city with a large Jewish population. If he was living in New York, Los Angeles or Miami he might not be so flippant about what damage the Iranians could do with one or two nukes.
And you are way the hell out in the middle of nowhere too. If you were living in London instead of Scotland you would be in range of nuclear capable Iranian missiles.
My point is about perspective. Because of their history Hamburg, Berlin, Vienna are much less likely to cop it than Tel Aviv or New York, but that doesn’t deter him from trying to lecture us about how irrational our concerns are. [/quote]
Paranoia is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion.[/quote]
It is widely accepted that a nuclear armed Iran will not be good. My views are not out of the mainstream. If anyone is mental it is people like you! You are so in denial that you are trying to rationalize your denial by suggesting I am paranoid.
[quote]joebassin wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Germany is useless as a world power. They just sit back do nothing and let everyone else do the dirty work. [/quote]
You mean that they mind their own business.[/quote]
No. They are worthless as an ally. ie. When it came time to pull their weight in Afghanistan they whined that they were still so traumatized by world war two that they couldn’t put their young men in arm’s way. It’s perfectly ok for young Americans and British to die there but not Germans.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
It is widely accepted that a nuclear armed Iran will not be good.
[/quote]
By who?
[quote]Sifu wrote:
[quote]joebassin wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Germany is useless as a world power. They just sit back do nothing and let everyone else do the dirty work. [/quote]
You mean that they mind their own business.[/quote]
No. They are worthless as an ally. ie. When it came time to pull their weight in Afghanistan they whined that they were still so traumatized by world war two that they couldn’t put their young men in arm’s way. It’s perfectly ok for young Americans and British to die there but not Germans. [/quote]
Why would they go in Afghanistan?
[quote]Chushin wrote:
So, is it your position that nothing should be done in response to Iran’s nuclear weapon ambitions?
[/quote]
Iranians want to build the bomb? Why? Simple analogy - if you have the bomb, US Secretary of State gives you a basketball signed by Michael Jordan and no one even dares talking about bombing you. If you don’t have the bomb, you get bombed, simple as that. So it’s a matter of the government’s survival.
I’m astounded by the fact how the Western media portrays the Iranian ruling elite as crazy lunatics bent on wreaking havoc and starting WWIII. They are bloody, despicable, violent and ruthless dictators but they are not crazy. They want to remain in power and continue oppressing their subjects.
The question is, why is US foreign policy being led by the country responsible for 9-11 that finances world terrorism and religious extremism?
Anyway, my personal anecdotal evidence is that Iranians (naturally the population, not the regime) is much more friendly to the US than in the Gulf states.
I’m not saying that Iran should be left alone to develop the bomb, but this situation needs a clear headed handling. Not a concentrated effort to start a hysteria very similar to the now infamous buildup to the Iraq war.
In Iraq, while the media was rambling about WMD’s and making up links between AQ and Saddam, Bin Laden was being protected by an erstwhile ally of the US. And in my opinion, Pakistan having the bomb is much, much more dangerous than Iran having the bomb.
[quote]loppar wrote:
The question is, why is US foreign policy being led by the country responsible for 9-11 that finances world terrorism and religious extremism?
[/quote]
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]loppar wrote:
The question is, why is US foreign policy being led by a country that finances world terrorism and religious extremism?
[/quote]
Now it’s better.
[quote]joebassin wrote:
[quote]loppar wrote:
The question is, why is US foreign policy being led by a country that finances world terrorism and religious extremism?
[/quote]
Now it’s better.[/quote]
You guys talking about Israel? Because if you mean Pakistan/Saudis I agree with joebassin. But if you’re talking about Israel…
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
You guys talking about Israel? Because if you mean Pakistan/Saudis I agree with joebassin. But if you’re talking about Israel…
Israel for sure.
I’m betting Saudi Arabia.
Because of their enmity towards the Shia.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
I’m betting Saudi Arabia.
Because of their enmity towards the Shia.
[/quote]
Yep, its them. It’s amazing what the Saudis can get away with. Terrorism, spread of wahabism, even suppression of revolts in other countries. For example, Mumbai attackers were all indoctrinated in Saudi funded mosques that preach from the “updated” Saudi printed version of the Koran where Jews are singled out as main targets.
Although Pakistan also pulled some pretty cool stuff. “Wage a proxy war against the US and protect their number one wanted man, actively support terrorist activities while receiving copious US funding”.
And to add insult to injury, in the best american tradition of supporting the wrong man (Vietnam, Iran…) Karzai told the very people who brought him to power that in a potential US - Pakistan confrontation Afghanistan would side with Pakistan.
On a side note, check out the book “Israel and the US foreign policy” for a detailed analysis on how Israel manages to influence US foreign policy Even against their own interests. Pretty fun reading.
[quote]loppar wrote:
Yep, its them.
[/quote]
Saudis weren’t behind 9/11. Small numbers of ISI/Army in Pakistan MAY have had prior knowledge - I don’t think so. Mullah Omar certainly did.
Both Saudis and Pakistan spawned the Taliban. Saudis exported Wahabism to the Pashtun Deobandi schools in Pakistan. Wahabi customs are similar to “Pashtunwali” - Pashtun tribal customs - in many ways.
Actually no. The Mumbai attackers were from a Kashmiri group funded/trained/armed/protected by the ISI and controlled by al-Qaeda 313 Brigade leader Ilyas Kashmiri(no longer with us.) Some may have attended Saudi-funded madrassas at some stage but it was an al-Qaeda/ISI job.
[quote]loppar wrote:
Although Pakistan also pulled some pretty cool stuff. “Wage a proxy war against the US and protect their number one wanted man, actively support terrorist activities while receiving copious US funding”.
[/quote]
Yeah, what a con they had going. Keep Bin Laden sealed in a room where he could do no harm. Allow him to release video tapes periodically to prove he was still alive. And by being so, get all the funding you could ever want.
My only question: why the attacks on the Pakistani populace by terrorists? A deadly ploy to get even more aid??
Or do you think the Pakistani govt. is being blackmailed by the extremists? “Leave us alone or else”?
[quote]loppar wrote:
And to add insult to injury, in the best american tradition of supporting the wrong man (Vietnam, Iran…) Karzai told the very people who brought him to power that in a potential US - Pakistan confrontation Afghanistan would side with Pakistan.
[/quote]
He said more than that since…
This guy’s got some nerve.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
My only question: why the attacks on the Pakistani populace by terrorists? A deadly ploy to get even more aid??
[/quote]
They do it to destabilise the Pakistani government. It’s all outlined in al-Qaeda writings on strategy.
[quote]
Or do you think the Pakistani govt. is being blackmailed by the extremists? “Leave us alone or else”? [/quote]
It’s far more complex than that. There are numerous different interest groups in Pakistan who wield political power - a huge smuggling syndicate, Islamic parties/militants/Taliban/al-Qaeda, the tribal Pashtuns, Army/ISI, civilian government - all of them have overlapping agendas.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
You guys talking about Israel? Because if you mean Pakistan/Saudis I agree with joebassin. But if you’re talking about Israel…[/quote]
I assumed he was talking about the Saudis…
[quote]joebassin wrote:
Israel for sure. [/quote]
A jewish state were arabs are second class citizen which proceed to ethnic cleansing of Palestine. How come that does not qualify as religious extremism and terrorism.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[/quote]
They do it to destabilise the Pakistani government. It’s all outlined in al-Qaeda writings on strategy.
[quote]
No, believe me, I understand.
But my thoughts are this: Pakistan’s a nuclear power. When a bomb goes off on a bus somewhere, Pakistan tells the US, give us aid, or those terrorists who blew up the bus may one day run the country and get in control of the nukes. And thus: another blackmail scheme.