AIPAC's War with Iran

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

No, I believe they want to be just one step before developing one and remain there.

They are not stupid, 1 or two warheads are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, this is just enough to get you killed.

Being one step away from a nuke though, that could get built when you are toppled will keep you very much alive.

Sneaky bastards, not quite Chinese, but still. [/quote]

That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.[/quote]

If you play checkers it does not I suppose.

If you play chess it does. [/quote]

No it doesn’t. Being on their way to having operative nuclear and missile technology makes them a target, isolates them in the international community - sanctions etc The moment they have demonstrated they have missile technology and a few nukes they are safe - their nuclear status is a fait accompli so no more sanctions etc and their status and ability to project power and influence externally increases dramatically.

22

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
[No, but you cannot hit their sites anyway and you cannot attack from from the Persian sea (sic!) either.

Not only would every ship be gone that you send there, them having stockpiled anti ship missiles by the truckload, they could also blow up everything that is in that sea, which includes quite a few oil terminals.

So, not only could they seriously hurt the US, by sinking a few ships maybe even an aircraft carrier, they could also seriously hurt the world economy which is something they would not care about because due to US sanctions they are not really a part of it.
[/quote]
Now you are making even less sense.

If the above is true, then why do they need the nuke threat in the first place?

[quote]orion wrote:
Also, why would they announce it?
[/quote]

Ummm, because the rest of the world would be less likely to be considering attacking them if they did?[/quote]

Because it makes them rattle their saber, which is beneficial in and of itself and there might come a day where one or two nukes would actually come in handy.

Exactly.

As long as they keep “considering”, preferably publicly, all is well.

23

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

No, I believe they want to be just one step before developing one and remain there.

They are not stupid, 1 or two warheads are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, this is just enough to get you killed.

Being one step away from a nuke though, that could get built when you are toppled will keep you very much alive.

Sneaky bastards, not quite Chinese, but still. [/quote]

That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.[/quote]

If you play checkers it does not I suppose.

If you play chess it does. [/quote]

No it doesn’t. Being on their way to having operative nuclear and missile technology makes them a target, isolates them in the international community - sanctions etc The moment they have demonstrated they have missile technology and a few nukes they are safe - their nuclear status is a fait accompli so no more sanctions etc and their status and ability to project power and influence externally increases dramatically.[/quote]

Is it that simple.

Are you one of those people that play chess by removing one piece after another until it makes sense to them?

24

[quote]orion wrote:

Is it that simple.

[/quote]

Yes

[quote]
Are you one of those people that play chess by removing one piece after another until it makes sense to them?[/quote]

No

26

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
[No, but you cannot hit their sites anyway and you cannot attack from from the Persian sea (sic!) either.

Not only would every ship be gone that you send there, them having stockpiled anti ship missiles by the truckload, they could also blow up everything that is in that sea, which includes quite a few oil terminals.

So, not only could they seriously hurt the US, by sinking a few ships maybe even an aircraft carrier, they could also seriously hurt the world economy which is something they would not care about because due to US sanctions they are not really a part of it.
[/quote]
Now you are making even less sense.

If the above is true, then why do they need the nuke threat in the first place?

[quote]orion wrote:
Also, why would they announce it?
[/quote]

Ummm, because the rest of the world would be less likely to be considering attacking them if they did?[/quote]

Because it makes them rattle their saber, which is beneficial in and of itself and there might come a day where one or two nukes would actually come in handy.

Exactly.

As long as they keep “considering”, preferably publicly, all is well.
[/quote]

Benificial how?

And they are not “considering, preferably publicly.” They are giving every sign that they will go to completion.

I juat can’t believe that you are seriously arguing that Iran should be left to its own devices “because I’m sure they won’t REALLY develop nukes.”

Finally, even if you are correct with this theory of yours, it will only lead to the total collapse of their economy and, most likely, their society. Or are you going to argue that they are doing “just fine” under the sanctions (which I’m sure you will say are “wrong” because they “hurt innocent civilians,” right? LOL.)?
[/quote]

Who is “they” ?

Their regime is doing alright, under the circumstances.

Their people, not so much and those are the ones I would address.

They are all very young, if the sanctions would be lifted and they would be flooded with western deviancy, their culture would change in no time.

Fortunately, the way it is now, the outside pressure stabilizes the regime.

27

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:
So, is it your position that nothing should be done in response to Iran’s nuclear weapon ambitions?
[/quote]

Nothing should be done about their alleged nuclear ambitions.

If the US government tells me that the Grinch wants to steal Christmas, I will automatically assume that they are lying.

Which is a step up from any other government, where the default position is that they are clueless and full of shit.

[/quote]

It is the IAEA that has published the report on the Iranian nuclear program not the US government. If you can’t be bothered to know the first thing about what you are discussing you should STFU instead of talking trash like a dumb ass.[/quote]

Clearly a totally independent institution.

No government involvement whatsoever.

Also they are inching closer to a nuclear weapon, they just dont want anyone to anyone to know how close.

To far away and they are irrelevant, too close and they are dangerous.

Almost, but not quite there makes them indispensable.

How does it feel to be a useful idiot, spreading panic and all?[/quote]

The IAEA is an independent organization. The US has wanted them to more assertive for a long time and they haven’t. Under El Baradei they were useless.

It’s easy for you to sit back and talk shit because your people killed six million Jews. Your reputation with the Iranians and Al Qaeda is golden.

You don’t have the leadership of a country that is run by a messianic doomsday cult, calling your country the great Satan.

The Iranians are not inching closer, they are expanding their capacity so they will be able to produce a big arsenal.

If anyone is a useful idiot it is you. You are blinded by your prejudice towards the US.

28

[quote]method_man wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
There are two types of people in Iran who want nuclear weapons; crazy people; and people who know that when Iran has nuclear missile sites hidden throughout the country they will be in a position like Pakistan - you know, where we have to give them everything they want and we can’t touch them because of the hidden nuclear missile sites.[/quote]

Ah, you mean a country with a secret nuclear weapons program… Like Israel?

[/quote]

What is your point? Do you believe Israel shouldn’t have nukes?

30

[quote]Sifu wrote:

It’s easy for you to sit back and talk shit because your people killed six million Jews. Your reputation with the Iranians and Al Qaeda is golden.

[/quote]

Absolutely pathetic argument.

31

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

It’s easy for you to sit back and talk shit because your people killed six million Jews. Your reputation with the Iranians and Al Qaeda is golden.

[/quote]

Absolutely pathetic argument.

[/quote]

We sold 55 bunker busters to Israel back in '09. It is close to ‘Go’ time.

33

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

It’s easy for you to sit back and talk shit because your people killed six million Jews. Your reputation with the Iranians and Al Qaeda is golden.

[/quote]

Absolutely pathetic argument.

[/quote]

How is that so? It is a fact that the Germans and Austrians killed six million Jews. It makes them a special case in any dealings with the middle east and islamists because they can say “don’t hate us, we’re the good guys. We killed the Jews!” and the islamists will say “yes they are good guys, they did kill the Jews”! So they get a “Pass” that other western countries don’t get.

Because they earned themselves a “Pass” in that part of the world, they can do nothing, get by on their history while renewing their “Pass” by talking sit from the sidelines.

34

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

It’s easy for you to sit back and talk shit because your people killed six million Jews. Your reputation with the Iranians and Al Qaeda is golden.

[/quote]

Absolutely pathetic argument.

[/quote]

The fact that you actually think this is really an “argument” is what is pathetic.[/quote]

How so? That little aside from Sifu had no bearing on the argument. If you want to criticise Orion’s argument, and by all means do, bringing acts he had no bearing or possibility of bearing on is lazy, derivative and stupid. It undermines any point he wishes to make.

35

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

It’s easy for you to sit back and talk shit because your people killed six million Jews. Your reputation with the Iranians and Al Qaeda is golden.

[/quote]

Absolutely pathetic argument.

[/quote]

How is that so? It is a fact that the Germans and Austrians killed six million Jews. It makes them a special case in any dealings with the middle east and islamists because they can say “don’t hate us, we’re the good guys. We killed the Jews!” and the islamists will say “yes they are good guys, they did kill the Jews”! So they get a “Pass” that other western countries don’t get.

Because they earned themselves a “Pass” in that part of the world, they can do nothing, get by on their history while renewing their “Pass” by talking sit from the sidelines. [/quote]

the fact that you think Merkel would sit in talks with Ahmedinejad and go ‘don’t hate us. We killed the Jews’ is actually laughable. I have no response to something that ridiculous and stupid.

Does Britain then get a pass for the expulsion of the jews in 1290?
Or spain for similar acts two centuries later?

36

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

It’s easy for you to sit back and talk shit because your people killed six million Jews. Your reputation with the Iranians and Al Qaeda is golden.

[/quote]

Absolutely pathetic argument.

[/quote]

How is that so? It is a fact that the Germans and Austrians killed six million Jews. It makes them a special case in any dealings with the middle east and islamists because they can say “don’t hate us, we’re the good guys. We killed the Jews!” and the islamists will say “yes they are good guys, they did kill the Jews”! So they get a “Pass” that other western countries don’t get.

Because they earned themselves a “Pass” in that part of the world, they can do nothing, get by on their history while renewing their “Pass” by talking sit from the sidelines. [/quote]

Insanity : mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior.

37

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

It’s easy for you to sit back and talk shit because your people killed six million Jews. Your reputation with the Iranians and Al Qaeda is golden.

[/quote]

Absolutely pathetic argument.

[/quote]

How is that so? It is a fact that the Germans and Austrians killed six million Jews. It makes them a special case in any dealings with the middle east and islamists because they can say “don’t hate us, we’re the good guys. We killed the Jews!” and the islamists will say “yes they are good guys, they did kill the Jews”! So they get a “Pass” that other western countries don’t get.

Because they earned themselves a “Pass” in that part of the world, they can do nothing, get by on their history while renewing their “Pass” by talking sit from the sidelines. [/quote]

That is actually not that far from the truth.

Kreisky, though being a Jew himself had far more pull in the Middle East than he should have had as the chancellor of Austria.

38

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

It’s easy for you to sit back and talk shit because your people killed six million Jews. Your reputation with the Iranians and Al Qaeda is golden.

[/quote]

Absolutely pathetic argument.

[/quote]

The fact that you actually think this is really an “argument” is what is pathetic.[/quote]

How so? That little aside from Sifu had no bearing on the argument. If you want to criticise Orion’s argument, and by all means do, bringing acts he had no bearing or possibility of bearing on is lazy, derivative and stupid. It undermines any point he wishes to make. [/quote]

Obviously it is going over your head. If one were to make a list of the countries who have the most at risk if the Iranians are allowed nuclear weaponry it is not Austria and Germany that would be at or even remotely near the top of the list.

Since Orion is arguing the point of view that we are making a big fuss over nothing it needs pointing out that he is not directly in the line of fire. It is easy for him to talk smack as the course of his life never takes him into a large American city with a large Jewish population. If he was living in New York, Los Angeles or Miami he might not be so flippant about what damage the Iranians could do with one or two nukes.

And you are way the hell out in the middle of nowhere too. If you were living in London instead of Scotland you would be in range of nuclear capable Iranian missiles.

My point is about perspective. Because of their history Hamburg, Berlin, Vienna are much less likely to cop it than Tel Aviv or New York, but that doesn’t deter him from trying to lecture us about how irrational our concerns are.

39

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

It’s easy for you to sit back and talk shit because your people killed six million Jews. Your reputation with the Iranians and Al Qaeda is golden.

[/quote]

Absolutely pathetic argument.

[/quote]

The fact that you actually think this is really an “argument” is what is pathetic.[/quote]

How so? That little aside from Sifu had no bearing on the argument. If you want to criticise Orion’s argument, and by all means do, bringing acts he had no bearing or possibility of bearing on is lazy, derivative and stupid. It undermines any point he wishes to make. [/quote]

Obviously it is going over your head. If one were to make a list of the countries who have the most at risk if the Iranians are allowed nuclear weaponry it is not Austria and Germany that would be at or even remotely near the top of the list.

Since Orion is arguing the point of view that we are making a big fuss over nothing it needs pointing out that he is not directly in the line of fire. It is easy for him to talk smack as the course of his life never takes him into a large American city with a large Jewish population. If he was living in New York, Los Angeles or Miami he might not be so flippant about what damage the Iranians could do with one or two nukes.

And you are way the hell out in the middle of nowhere too. If you were living in London instead of Scotland you would be in range of nuclear capable Iranian missiles.

My point is about perspective. Because of their history Hamburg, Berlin, Vienna are much less likely to cop it than Tel Aviv or New York, but that doesn’t deter him from trying to lecture us about how irrational our concerns are. [/quote]

Paranoia is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion.

40

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

It’s easy for you to sit back and talk shit because your people killed six million Jews. Your reputation with the Iranians and Al Qaeda is golden.

[/quote]

Absolutely pathetic argument.

[/quote]

How is that so? It is a fact that the Germans and Austrians killed six million Jews. It makes them a special case in any dealings with the middle east and islamists because they can say “don’t hate us, we’re the good guys. We killed the Jews!” and the islamists will say “yes they are good guys, they did kill the Jews”! So they get a “Pass” that other western countries don’t get.

Because they earned themselves a “Pass” in that part of the world, they can do nothing, get by on their history while renewing their “Pass” by talking sit from the sidelines. [/quote]

the fact that you think Merkel would sit in talks with Ahmedinejad and go ‘don’t hate us. We killed the Jews’ is actually laughable. I have no response to something that ridiculous and stupid.

Does Britain then get a pass for the expulsion of the jews in 1290?
Or spain for similar acts two centuries later?[/quote]

That you think Merkel would need to point that out to the Iranians is what is laughable. Are you aware that Iranian is the Farsi word for Aryan and the international name of the country became Iran in 1935 partly because of their relationship with Hitler?

What’s ridiculous is your suggestion that Merkel would have a need to sit in talks with the Iranians. Germany is useless as a world power. They just sit back do nothing and let everyone else do the dirty work.