no hcg yet, but mainly because the start of this for me was a local weight management study with a controlled list of options. the protocol was already set without variation.
I’ve been looking at various protocol options - whats the preference these days for us older guys who have already done the kid thing enough times and seen the v-doc to make sure?
Remind us why you are taking 5-alpha RI?
So no thyroid tests?
Iodine: Have you read the ‘ksman has a thyroid problem’? My TSH was 1.6, yours 1.52
In the UK, there was a long term study were they mailed 300,000iu vit-D supplements to long term study participants. It is safe to mega dose to catch up. However, a few seem to eat vit-D3 instead of build up their reserves.
With that weight loss, you are liberating all kinds if fat soluble substances/toxins/drugs that you will need to endure. So one might expect to feel some negative aspect with major weight loss. When you reach a terminal state, then things might then feel better as that stops.
5alpha ri -was for DHT increases
The iodine/thyroid thread is crazy! You are clearly blazing the trail! Adding the thyroid panels to this next test batch ASAP. Last TSH was 1.156 down from 1.5 (i’ve been adding 2.5mg iodine daily as its part of my favorite d3h but seems still should focus on more iodine sup and secondaries. Is there a good protocol using the iordonal and selenium/mag?
hCG isn’t just about having kids. It keeps the balls “full size” - after adding exogenous test, yours will start to atrophy. It looks pretty f’up when they shrink. Plus - most report of better sense of well-being with hCG added in - may have something to do with pregnolone (?) production in the testes.
hcg also stimulated 17-hydroxyprogesterone production which then converts to cortisol.
no 17-hydroxyprogesterone = low cortisol
Thanks on the hCG info. Been searching for the latest thinking on protocol.
Did my blood labs this AM and waiting on 4 test cortisol kit to get that done.
Added iodine based on KSman’s recommendation and TSH scores. Will monitor TSH going forward as well as body temps.
Latest lab - test run at different lab than previous
Active TRT with 10% cream/ 1ml per day (labs above approx 1-1.5hrs after application)
avodart 0.5mg 1x day
arimidex 0.5 mg 2x per week
vit D3 10000 IU x day
metaformin 500mg 2x day - trying to drive fasting glucose sub 80, still in 78-85 range with high hemo a1c of 5.7 now (4.8-5.6)
Iodine - iodoral 25mg daily
lef mix vitamin powder
b6 200mg total
waiting on 4 test cortisol kit results to come back
Those numbers were after you were taking the given meds/protocol? How long had you been on everything…
What sort of adex are you using? Real stuff or research lab? Compounded or not?
What sort of Vit D3 are you using? It looks to be doing jack dick for your D3 levels…you probably need a more bioactive brand…
Why avodart? It is killing your DHT…
I’m guessing your cortisol could end up back low, since your preg is so low yet DHEA is high…if not supplementing with DHEA, it looks like all preg is going to DHEA…
VTBalla,
numbers after meds/protocol - was on that program 6 weeks at that point. dosed ~1.5 hours prior to labs at dr request. next labs are no dose prior.
Adex is 0.5mg arimidex 2x weekly
vit d3 is 2 x 5K from LEF with iodine. levels are up from 31 over 10 weeks. not sure if i need to go liquid, boluse dose or what…
DHT spiked early on with TRT, so doc being cautious with it and running avodart. I was 76 last test on 25-75 scale. definitiely over compensated. Reading your and ksman’s cheatsheets, looks like is shoul drop avodart for now and monitor, correct? whats a good target?
thanks!
Weird you are getting your D3 from LEF–they have a good reputation for their products. I’m not sure why your blood is coming back so low. I use Biotics Emulsion Forte Vit D3 and its really cheap and took my levels from bottom of range to upper range at 10k iu/day. Your mileage may vary, but you may want to consider it. You can get it on Amazon.
Your E2 dose also seems to be not doing much for you. Neither does the B6 for your HDL.
This would lead me to suspect some sort of gut issues–you may not be absorbing these products properly.
Have you ever tested for celiacs? Do you eat a lot of gluten? You may want to consider an elimination diet for a few weeks to see if things improve.
I would aim for DHT in the upper ranges, but depends on your symptoms (sexual symptoms for DHT, as well as “prostate awareness”).
Speaking of symptoms, you didn’t list any. How do you FEEL after this latest round?
Yeah, I’m surprised to that I don’t see the values moving much, especially at the levels and time period. I tend recently to see things come on in a rush, which makes me wonder if i just ran everything way to low and am seeing the tank fill up prior to any real level change?
Considering where I started 8 or so months ago, I feel great. I still feel a little sluggish and worn-out/tired most of the time, but no where near the don’t want to get out of bed from before. Libido isn’t where it has been like the 2nd or 3rd month of TRT. I’m still finding it pretty easy to get more lean as my BF is still going down and muscle mass is sticking around. I try to run 6-8 week cycles (or match up with the program i’m doing) and do a caliper checkpoint as well as labs. I’m a happy, positive guy, just not “on” if that makes sense.
Hadn’t thought about or been tested for Celiacs. Will look it up. I typically have a quarter cup of the following with yogurt for breakfast (Whole Grain Wheat, Date Crumbles, Sunflower Seeds, Raisins, Whole Grain Rye, Whole Grain Barley, Whole Grain Oats, Whole Grain Triticale (wheat), Flaxseed, Almonds and Walnuts) so I’m pretty sure i’m getting more gluten than i expect there and from other foods mixed in the day. I don’t tend to do a lot of breads or pastas, I’m more of a fish and fruit guy but just searching gluten from your note introduced me to a whole new world. Here’s hoping thats not it.
Following up on the last recommendations, I’ve tried a few things over the last few weeks
Since I already have an adrenal problem (primary hyperaldosteronism and take Inspra to reduce my aldosterone levels), I started to follow that path and have some aldosterone and cortisol blood labs on the way. I’m wondering I’m showing adrenal fatigue from the long term over production? my potassium and sodium levels are back in line on inspra, as is my blood pressure and i do not have operable adrenal tumors based on MRI’s so looks like something I’m stuck with.
Checking body temps, I’ve been 96.6 - 96.8 each day this week on waking, avg 98.0 on my three samples every three hours during day with steady progression from 6am waking, 9am, 12pm, and 3pm test with 3pm being 98.6 each day. following the sticky, that would point me to a thyroid issue. Last labs tsh 1.153, t4 9.5, t3 free 2.9 so I’m not sure what to look at next?
Purge and gluten free diet - been running an old favorite elimination diet for last few weeks and dropped gluten/carbs to almost zero. Other than feeling clean as a whistle, haven’t noticed any major changes to feeling tired and lethargic and having trouble staying on task. Right now I feel like I could crawl back in bad and sleep for days.
Without having a stronger reaction to the elimination and gluten purge, I’m considering holding off on the Celiac labs (which would be AGA-IgA or AGA-IgG, DGP-IgG and DGP-IgA, Total serum IgA, and tTG with EMA??).
Other symptoms - low energy, low libido, and serious fatigue/cramping after exertion. For example, when I do sprints or chase the kids/dog, the sides of my calf cramp and stick out like little wings. feels like its on freaking fire! same kind of thing when the kids hang on my arms, after a few of these, my shoulders are completely cramped up and in pain. low motivation, lack of interest in most things, just no go in the tank.
On the other side - still have morning wood, no changes to hair patterns or any loss, building muscle slowly but surely on cal controlled diet, still loosing body fat, still increasing endurance (rowed a 5 miles last night on the canal in an hour - could only do 30 mins when I started 5 or so months ago).
TSH barely elevated and Free T3 is just barely below ideal - but you have below ideal body temps.
Maybe helpful to check Reverse T3 and ferritin levels.
aldosterone also impacts potassium levels. could controlling you salt balance be increasing or decreasing your potassium levels?
And pregnenolone is a precursor of progesterone.
Thanks PureChance
Before I started inspra, my potassium levels were crazy low, no matter what I supplemented I just flushed it. With Inspra, my potassium runs 4.5-5.0 on 3.5-5.3 mmol/L lab range with sodium 140-141 on 135-146 mmol/L scale.
I’ve run DASH diet type low sodium approaches, but my sodium levels haven’t had much swing in 8-12 months.
Following KSmans threads, I have supplemented iodine along with selenium and l-tryrosine in hopes that low body temps are something that adjust relatively easily. I’m also looking for the next labs i run in June to capture the normal maintenance information, plus some of these other possibiliites. What else besides reverse t3 and Ferritin do you think i should add beyond the normal sticky items and vtballas suggestions?
Latest labs in and a few other tests run in between.
For the absorption concerns, I’ve tried a few things without any real positive impact. would love to hear any ideas on how to improve absorption.
partial lane results (quest seemed to have left off a page somewhere…)
Active TRT with 10% cream/ 1ml per day (did not dose this day for labs after hitting 1011 post dosing on last lab to see how quickly the level went down)
arimidex 0.5 mg 3x per week
vit D3 10000 IU x day
metaformin 500mg 2x day - trying to drive fasting glucose sub 80, still in 78-85 range with high hemo a1c of 5.7 now (4.8-5.6)
lef mix vitamin powder
b6 200mg total
Overall, adding muscle and reducing fat as well as cleaning up some of the other older guy issues like glucose and cholesterol. I still feel lethargic and have a low libido (just no interest, which is really a weird feeling). also still cramping even though my potassium is nicely in the middle of the range and sodium is on the lower end of the range.
besides continuing to treat e dominance to bring down estradiol, where else should i be looking?
Thanks
These are the labs after not dosing for one day, correct?
They look terrible.
Are you still taking avodart for DHT control? Its doing too “good” of a job.
Are you still taking arimidex? Your E2 is very high for that.
You may be a hormone hyper metabolizer/excretor if your bloodwork changes that much in just a day.
Yep, those are one day after not dosing.
No avodart for the last 2 months
arimidex of 0.5mg 3x per week
I’ve been searching the forums and trying to find some mention of a similar problem, just not seeing much. Have a meeting with my doc next week and would like to be on top of things with some idea of where to go from here.
Just had a visit with the Dr. Went through the labs and crap numbers as well as talked through the lower waking temps, huge no-dose swings on T, etc.
How does this sound for an update?
First, did full thyroid blood panel today, including revere t3. low waking temps have continued (typ 96.3 - 96.5, then raises up to 98.6 by 3pm) as have the tired, lethargic feelings and bloating/hard weight loss. ferritin was ok in last panel. reorder of iodine on the way (was a pain to get with japan situation)
second, increasing ai to 1mg x 2 per week to try to get the e2 down from 45 back to the 15-25 range I had it in before
third, keeping the avodart out of the equation unless the DHT goes up to high with a target of 55-65
fourth, potentially going from test cream 10% to 12% same daily 1ml dose
I’m hoping its something straightforward and let me know if the changes seem to be enough or i should push in other directions.
Just got some of the thyroid panel back in. Waiting on T3, FT3, and RT3. (TSH is up to 2.4 from 1.5)
TSH 2.4 0.450-4.500
T4 10.3 4.5-12.0
FT4 1.52 2.0-4.4
could the e2 levels and related thyroid tsh increase (still waiting on the FT3, rT3) be a major contributor to my low absorption?