Would love to get some feedback from you guys regarding my most recent blood work. I’ve been RXd:
This last test is up for me my total normally is in the 300s and my free is normally 6.1ish
Never done TRT and wanted to get your feedback on this protocol and any pitfalls you foresee.
Testosterone Cypionate/Propionate 160/40mg/mL in Grapeseed Oil (divided by shots a week)
hCG Lyophilized 6,000iu Kit (two shots a week)
Anastrozole 0.25mg Capsule (two capsules a week)
Where is your TT and FT? PRobably dont need the anastrazole.
You’re not going to get an argument from me about whether or not testosterone is suboptimal, suboptimal doesn’t even come close to describing your situation. I would start TRT in isolation or dialing in will become a challenge. There are some guys that just don’t do well on HCG or anastrozole and are AI over-responders where even a little pinch wrecks your day.
Dial in on TRT only, then add the other stuff later and if you add something new and things head south, well then you know what is causing the problem, but if you start out on three different compounds, good luck figuring out what is causing the problems.
Doing things this way will greatly increase the time until you start feeling good.
Instead do this:
Start out on T cypionate.
Adjust injection frequencies if high estrogen symptoms are encountered.
If adjusting injection frequencies fails to provide good results, add in a low dose AI once weekly and see how you do for at least 10 days, if symptoms still persist increase AI to twice weekly.
Once you are dialed in and feel great and start reaping the benefits of TRT, now is the time to try HCG. If things become problematic at any dosage, now you know HCG isn’t for you.
What do you mean by this? I’ve been trying to consume as much information as I can…Is a Testosterone Reset a possibility? Using HCG then Clomid? Do you see a way for me to correlate a test result to SHBG? I noticed they didn’t test for that…
It isn’t like a video game where you can hit the reset button and start over, the only way a restart will work is if you correct the cause of low testosterone.
Clomid successful restarts are rare, usually once clomid is discontinued, levels drop back to baseline. The symptoms are usually still present on clomid even with perfect numbers.
Clomid is a fertility drug for females, half the pill is estrogen and it’s no wonder men feel so bad.
I did read that as well about the clomid. I like you concept about adding one med at a time. My protocol calls for two times a week. I’ll start a Wed and Saturday injection cycle.
Your TT and FT ratios suggest SHBG is close to midrange. Twice weekly dose may need to change to EOD because estrogen is already healthy and when TT and FT increase, it may send estrogen too high which may or may not cause high estrogen sides.
I would adjust injection frequency before resorting to AI’s because if you spend enough time on the forums you notice threads where estrogen has been crashed and we have a member who has had chronically low estrogen for almost 6 months and hasn’t regained normal estrogen.
His case is more rare, but it just shows how AI’s can wreck your life even if temporarily and should be a last ditch effort to control estrogen.
What you are looking for is TT 1000-800 ng/dL, FT between the optimal ranges 20-26.5 pg/mL, and estrogen 25-35 pg/mL, yours is already at 25 and when T increases, estrogen is expected to rise. Losing excess body weight should help lower estrogen.
Regarding the bloodwork, I can only see page one.
Regarding the protocol, I would be interested to know the rationale for combining cypionate and propionate. Also, what is the hCG dose and reason for using it?
As mentioned, I would also avoid anastrozole initially.
Twice weekly dosing is fine by me, won’t hurt you, but most (around 85-90%) guys on TRT take 150-200mg per week once a week. I would do that until proven split dosing was needed. But that is just me and based on the fact that most do fine with once weekly injections
As far as my body weight I’m 6’1 191 lbs and according to my Inbody 8% body fat. I was hopping to gain a few lbs haha. So the protocol is twice a week for a total of 200. Would you suggest 50 EOD? I want to keep my estrogen as under control as possible. I have a guy at the gym doing 200 a week and three or four times he’s has full on hot flashes…Where you see my FT the 59.5 how does that correlate? the range is 30s-155s…I’ve not seen that dilution before? Normally I see a number that you referenced with a FT top end of 22-25.
I am assuming the two times a week comes from the Cyp/Pro compound. They told me the HcG was to keep my natural production up. I haven’t even started studying that yet lol. What I don’t fully grasp is the difference between the “slow acting” Cyp and a “slow release” Pro…Propionate as I understand it is metabolized in as little as 3 days and can reach peak concentrations within an hour…I don’t understand what is slow about that. Ha.
Been doing EOD injections for close to a month now. I have a planned blood panel in 8 weeks. I was wondering at what point I should encounter any negative side effects…and what those side effects might look like? I’m pretty hard headed and push through shit, so I wanted to make sure I had some idea of what to look out for or it will not register with me. I just don’t want to dig a whole for myself if I can avoid it. If that makes any sense? I’ve actually gained 8 lbs which is CRAZY to me!! I’ve been trying to gain 8 lbs for years hahaha. Body fat stayed stable at 8%. Sleeping well, still sleepy through the day but that’s normal.
That’s one way of controlling estrogen if you dose it correctly. Remember less decline in hormone levels between injections means higher trough levels.
I encounter peak symptoms briefly at about 5.5 weeks if levels are appropriately elevated, if the protocol is overly aggressive, symptoms are encountered earlier.
I’ve been running 30 EOD instead of 50. The symptoms at peak, does the body auto regulate at a new normal or is there a point where I will need to start managing estrogen? If i’m healthy otherwise; low body fat, diet on point, 6-8 hours sleep, etc…with a new normal Test level and a new normal estrogen level should my “healthy” estrogen still be in the “10-82 pg/ml” range?
There seems to be a T/E2 ratio so if your T is higher your E2 will be higher.
I like the 15-25:1 ratio. 15-25 T for every 1 E.
I’m injecting 160/40 Cyp/Pro per week. I haven’t started any HcG or anti estrogen. Will my natural production completely shut down with this amount causing my nuts to shrink? Is HcG a necessity going forward? My last free test result before started TRT was 486. My doc told me to start everything at once, since I’m slow walking each piece I was trying to figure out a time line.
Your natural production will shut down on any amount of exogenous testosterone whether 1mg or 150mg. No worry because your natural production isn’t working for you anymore, you can always stop TRT and return to the levels pre-TRT, but the thought of returning to a low testosterone state shouldn’t even be contemplated unless you want to invite disease.
I don’t know if your testicles will shrink, no one could possibly know that answer to that question.
My Doctor told me I should take HcG to keep up my natural production thus keeping my testicles from shrinking. I don’t have any plans to drop back to my old “feel like trash” levels. (I’m actually breathing better since starting TRT but that’s neither here nor there) I guess I need to dive into what HcG actually does.
It just mimics the signal from your brain to your balls telling them to produce T since your brain will stop sending that signal once you start taking T
HCG will stimulate the testicles to produce a little bit of testosterone and estrogen, you will also be converting FT–>E2 and estrogen will be higher. A lot of men feel bad on estrogen blocking medications, some are even over-responders and wreck joints every time they touch the stuff.
Normal estrogen in men not on TRT is <35 pg/mL, recent indications point to slight HPTA suppression with estrogen in the 40 in men.
