We’re Renzo lineage as well. Renzo → Amal Easton → Jay Jack (guy in the video).
Sport BJJ, which is totally rad, absolutely evolves and changes all of the time. That’s part of what makes it so incredible, the unbelievable variety of grips that get opened up when you don’t need to worry about getting punched in the face, stomped or slammed into the ground. I don’t think it will ever stop evolving.
Combat, which is also totally rad, doesn’t really change all that much. It definitely gets refined, instructors become better instructors, but the system doesn’t get revamped. The basic formula for whooping ass has been known for well over a century, and nearly every “BJJ” move you learn as part of the core curriculum at this guy’s school has a Japanese name that you can trace back to at least the 19th century.
What he teaches is actually probably quite similar to Judo as it existed before it became an Olympic sport.
Here’s a small list of some of the key positions and submissions in 19th century Japanese Judo.
None are too deadly to train at high intensity, but all are deadly enough to work very well, especially if your opponent doesn’t know how to counter them. That Japanese idea of de-prioritizing “too deadly to train” is why BJJ lineage still gets traced back to Japan and Kano-era Judo.
Yeah removing all the “dangerous” stuff to focus on the grappling actually made a better martial art in a way.
You can not eye gouge people very often in training. Where as it’s pretty cool to practice throws and chokes. And you can do that fairly often.
I’m interested in your BJJ school take downs and throws. I’ve done both BJJ and judo and the overlaps are great. BJJ had the ground game covered. But I wonder how good its throws are compared. Not trying to rubbish it. Just trying to understand how far they have gone into it.
For example - My old judo Sensei could out judo a Brazilian guy. IE in judo if action stalls on the floor for a period of time you’d stand up. In a pure submission match he’d be out matched.
I wonder if a BJJ guy went to a judo match how his throws would pan out.
I presume judo will always be better at judo and BJJ better at BJJ. But having faced Jujitsu guys in competition you discount any throwing ability.
It’s interesting tactically as you can attack on your feet very freely. And because you are not worried about counter throws you can focus on not landing in a poor position.
If I’ve got to attack and worry about a counter throw it’s easier for my opponent to get a non scoring take down BUT land dominant.
I don’t know of any high-level judo competitions associated with the school. Jay’s first black belt Paul Gorman did manage to pull off a drop seoi nage in black belt competition that led to a spectacular flying triangle finish with an armbar for good measure at Fight To Win Pro in Boston a few years ago, which is very high-level sport grappling. Oddly enough, the school that prioritizes combat through blue belt is also producing the best sport grapplers in my region.
Compared to what? is a question that should get asked, but this is a room full of brown and black belts much smaller and weaker than me who tend to get the better of me with stand-up, winning at least 80 percent of the takedowns and getting good position from the start.
They can Do The Thing.
The way I see it is that I owned my little dive bar and every asshole who ever walked through those doors. Quite easily, in most circumstances. I’ve also tapped out plenty of guys on the mat.
I’ve only made the commute to Jay’s school about a dozen times and I get my ass completely whooped by the brown and black belts there. It’s fantastic. I’m incredibly fortunate to have trained under one of the instructors he’s created, who has also whooped my ass one hundred percent of the time, all of the time, every single time.
Edit: Another way of looking at this is that my sophomoric understanding of judo renders me incapable of answering your question. I can only tell you that I get thrown, put on my ass, smashed relentlessly and treated very well every time I’ve gone to Jay’s school to train.
He’s also never accepted a single dollar from me, which I don’t really like but I’m not quite ready to start a fight with him about it.
Here’s another insta vid from the same photographer’s page with some of the guys and gals training. Stand-up is not neglected by any reasonable measure. It is trained just as seriously as any other technique in the curriculum. This is what I consider BJJ and it is how the head instructor labels it. In simple terms you can call his curriculum core judo, core wrestling, core grappling, basic footwork and basic striking. Muay Thai is trained separately there. Add it all up and you get some really capable people.
Will the top guys there win a judo competition against a high-level school of competitors that spends nearly all of the mat time training Judo? A few might have that background, the head instructor is a Judo black belt, but most likely the Judo guys would win most of the time at Judo.
Will the throws work in combat against trained opponents? Yes, but like everything, it depends on the opponent.
Lots of great stuff in this video, including a trainee doing my favorite thing to do when I end up playing guard. Stand back up.
Recently started training under a new MMA instructor, not competing or anything, and really had my eyes opened by him. He has a ninjutsu background and its completely changed my opinion of the martial art. Used to think it was just crap that nerds dressed up in black play around with, but when its combined with more ‘modern’ martial arts, Muai Thai & BJJ, then its nasty side comes out, especially in a self defense type situation.
Probably makes a difference that his original instructor, met him only once, is a real old school hard-arse that can use me to wipe down floors, instead of some fluffy loser who teaches fake martial arts.
I think this is key. A lot of people brush off traditional martial arts because every Tom, Dick and Harry who can afford classes will be “initiated” in to the art, go through monetized belt progressions to become a black belt and participate in tournaments. This doesn’t mean they can fight, and you often see inflated egos getting their asses kicked in blooper clips by literally anyone with a modicum of athleticism.
The same is true on the other side of the coin though. If you actually are good at fighting, learn the techniques and practice them to apply to a fight and not a “kata”, you can learn some techniques that when applied can be very effective in a fight. Trying to force a fight to flow like a belt progression form is going to get you hurt though. This is why boxers and muy Thai fighters seem so dominant in “art vs art” clips. They really do fight and practice full contact sparring for experience, which is at least as important as technique itself in a street/bar fight.
This is true for all martial arts, even the currently “infallible” BJJ or for cross trained mma fighters, with “fighters” used loosely.
I dont care if you have practiced at a neighborhood gym three days per week for an hour each time and have 11 gold stripes on your midnight black belt, if a guy who knows how to trade punches and avoid being tackled cracks you in the jaw with a pair of brass knuckles, or tackles you and bounces your head off the street, you’re fucked. Super spinning moon secret kicks reserved for Korean royalty (and American dojos) and elbow twisters and all.
The best style for self-defense, aside from weapons discussed earlier, is whatever gives you the quickest path to administering significant damage. I would imagine this is fluid and shouldn’t be viewed from a set of style rules. Bounce heads, gouge eyes, bite chunks off of people et cetera. Fuck them up enough to make them want to leave you alone, or not have a say in the matter.
The best style is the one that gives you the best chance for survival. Winning and losing mean something different when death, rape or disability is on the menu.
Yeah. I put this guy in the hospital one time. He had all the moves. Tiger strikes, crane stuff, that fancy kick thing.
I punched him in the face, really hard. Like you could see his spirit juke out the side for a second hard. It was over for him at that point, but he was a prick so I kicked him into an unrecognizable heap of pain and stupidity too.
Guns and how to use them would have maybe helped.
Keeping his slate clean would have definitely helped.
I’m a 6’1” guy at 245, who could be legit lean at 225, and I’ll end a threat by whatever means necessary before I worry about whose tiger kick fans out the most spectacularly. Try to bjj my elbow? Ok, but can you do it with a knife in your eyeball? Deposited with enough force to lodge in to your orbital socket? A contract and I know about it? What are your thoughts on kimura tapping a 300 win mag while you look for me in the desert? Ask yourself these questions first.