Add HCG to Clomid Nolva?

Pharma / TRT
21

[quote]KSman wrote:
I think it is important to use as ones testes never have to shutdown and they are ready to go as soon as you make the transition from HCG to LH. A SERM helps switch the LH back on. I think that HCG should be used all through a cycle that shuts down the HPTA. But HCG can be difficult for some to source.

Many guys on TRT take HCG so their testes do not shut down, but many on cycles allow their testes to shutdown. Seems sort of contradictory.[/quote]

A bit of a paradox that can prob be explained by the fact that TRT is a more permanent option, and one that usually occurs under a physician’s supervision. Contrast that with an average recreational AAS cycle, which relies mostly on internet board veterans for guidance.

22

[quote]chillain wrote:
KSman wrote:
I think it is important to use as ones testes never have to shutdown and they are ready to go as soon as you make the transition from HCG to LH. A SERM helps switch the LH back on. I think that HCG should be used all through a cycle that shuts down the HPTA. But HCG can be difficult for some to source.

Many guys on TRT take HCG so their testes do not shut down, but many on cycles allow their testes to shutdown. Seems sort of contradictory.

A bit of a paradox that can prob be explained by the fact that TRT is a more permanent option, and one that usually occurs under a physician’s supervision. Contrast that with an average recreational AAS cycle, which relies mostly on internet board veterans for guidance.

[/quote]

True, how true.

-“average recreational AAS cycle, which relies mostly on internet board veterans for guidance”-
True, and quite often unfortunate.

23

So if you run HCG through a long cycle should it be taken every 3-5 days at lets say 250iu - 500iu. Or should it be taken every 4th week? If so what dose? I mean ive seen so many diff ways to take it. Whats the best for a 12weeker or longer? Thanks.

24

So Im on week 6 of an 8 week cycle of enanthate at 500mg per week and Im thinking of upping this to 12 weeks but using test prop for the last 4 weeks instead of enanthate so I can be clean for a drug test in January. Would I use HCG for the last 8 weeks due to a longer cycle? Ive heard sooo many conflicting reasons.

25

[quote]TheBeat wrote:

-“average recreational AAS cycle, which relies mostly on internet board veterans for guidance”-
True, and quite often unfortunate.[/quote]

Please tell us where you get your information, as I have seen you offer no substantial advice since you have posted here, yet you love to act as if everyone else is a dipshit.

For recreational use - there is nothing but anecdotal proof, experience, and personal trial and error. Why? Try finding a published study, or trial in the last 20 years specifically addressing recreational steroid use in the adult male. I doubt you will have much luck.

TRT is hit or miss under a physician’s care. In fact, I’d say they are just as much trial and error as the rec side. How many TRT guys have posted here, or in the Over 35 forum saying that their doc nailed it on the head the first time out? I have seen very few. Most of them say that they had to try 3-4 different protocols before they found something that did the trick.

I don’t see much difference in the doctor prescribed TRT and the anecdotal advice of experienced rec users - except for dosages.

26

[quote]rainjack wrote:
TheBeat wrote:

-“average recreational AAS cycle, which relies mostly on internet board veterans for guidance”-
True, and quite often unfortunate.

Please tell us where you get your information, as I have seen you offer no substantial advice since you have posted here, yet you love to act as if everyone else is a dipshit.

For recreational use - there is nothing but anecdotal proof, experience, and personal trial and error. Why? Try finding a published study, or trial in the last 20 years specifically addressing recreational steroid use in the adult male. I doubt you will have much luck.

TRT is hit or miss under a physician’s care. In fact, I’d say they are just as much trial and error as the rec side. How many TRT guys have posted here, or in the Over 35 forum saying that their doc nailed it on the head the first time out? I have seen very few. Most of them say that they had to try 3-4 different protocols before they found something that did the trick.

I don’t see much difference in the doctor prescribed TRT and the anecdotal advice of experienced rec users - except for dosages.
[/quote]

RAINJACK, I am sorry that you feel that I offer nothing of use with my post, and I have never called anyone here a dipshit - ever, that is a talent left to you. I have never made personal attacks at you or anyone else - but YOU have. I think you must be holding something against me for making you look like an ass whenever we get in a debate - for that I am sorry, but on this thread you presented a challenge; and the other time you took a personal attack on me and posted without thought.

You ask where I get my information: since you did not ask for what in particular and tied it to me “offering no substantial advice” you must me in general? Well, I get my information from:

~5 years of college as a pre-med student
~I get my information from online references such as Pubmed
~I get my information from magazines and books
~I get my information from others with knowledge
~I get my information from peers and colleages
When I get information I try to relate it to fact, compare it with documented studies and make sure it isn’t something that has gotten scewed.

The problem with some vets and just everybody in general is:
~The common act of re-hashing what they’ve heard because some ‘vet’ told them and it must be true, this compounds and eventually becomes ‘fact’ in the minds of many.
~The classic example and quote by Einstein “…a little information can be dangerous.” Meaning that many know little and think they know much and spread this misunderstandings as truth.

You are right in saying there are no studies done on recreational use, as the mere statement “recreational” would mean on a personal not clinical level. Rainjack, I’m sure you know that we have to take the little known, as in scientific proven, and using sound theory, knowledge, anecdotal proof and empirical evidence to come to our pre-conclusions.

Just as you mentioned with TRT being ‘hit and miss’ everything effects people a little different, but with most things we known the how and why, and just need to fine tune it from there.

Rainjack, I assume that you have much experience and knowledge to contribute and I personally enjoy your postings most of the time and cringe the others, but so is it with everybody. If you find me taking personal attacks like you do on this board please but it out as I do not wish to be a ‘raining’ jack-ass, raining my shit on people.

27

PS, you still owe me a ass-kiss! and calling me out and saying I contribute nothing is far from kissing my ass.
Owe up and pucker up.

28

[quote]TheBeat wrote:
rainjack wrote:
TheBeat wrote:

-“average recreational AAS cycle, which relies mostly on internet board veterans for guidance”-
True, and quite often unfortunate.

Please tell us where you get your information, as I have seen you offer no substantial advice since you have posted here, yet you love to act as if everyone else is a dipshit.

For recreational use - there is nothing but anecdotal proof, experience, and personal trial and error. Why? Try finding a published study, or trial in the last 20 years specifically addressing recreational steroid use in the adult male. I doubt you will have much luck.

TRT is hit or miss under a physician’s care. In fact, I’d say they are just as much trial and error as the rec side. How many TRT guys have posted here, or in the Over 35 forum saying that their doc nailed it on the head the first time out? I have seen very few. Most of them say that they had to try 3-4 different protocols before they found something that did the trick.

I don’t see much difference in the doctor prescribed TRT and the anecdotal advice of experienced rec users - except for dosages.

RAINJACK, I am sorry that you feel that I offer nothing of use with my post, and I have never called anyone here a dipshit - ever, that is a talent left to you. I have never made personal attacks at you or anyone else - but YOU have. I think you must be holding something against me for making you look like an ass whenever we get in a debate - for that I am sorry, but on this thread you presented a challenge; and the other time you took a personal attack on me and posted without thought.

You ask where I get my information: since you did not ask for what in particular and tied it to me “offering no substantial advice” you must me in general? Well, I get my information from:

~5 years of college as a pre-med student
~I get my information from online references such as Pubmed
~I get my information from magazines and books
~I get my information from others with knowledge
~I get my information from peers and colleages

When I get information I try to relate it to fact, compare it with documented studies and make sure it isn’t something that has gotten scewed.

The problem with some vets and just everybody in general is:
~The common act of re-hashing what they’ve heard because some ‘vet’ told them and it must be true, this compounds and eventually becomes ‘fact’ in the minds of many.
~The classic example and quote by Einstein “…a little information can be dangerous.” Meaning that many know little and think they know much and spread this misunderstandings as truth.

You are right in saying there are no studies done on recreational use, as the mere statement “recreational” would mean on a personal not clinical level. Rainjack, I’m sure you know that we have to take the little known, as in scientific proven, and using sound theory, knowledge, anecdotal proof and empirical evidence to come to our pre-conclusions.

Just as you mentioned with TRT being ‘hit and miss’ everything effects people a little different, but with most things we known the how and why, and just need to fine tune it from there.

Rainjack, I assume that you have much experience and knowledge to contribute and I personally enjoy your postings most of the time and cringe the others, but so is it with everybody. If you find me taking personal attacks like you do on this board please but it out as I do not wish to be a ‘raining’ jack-ass, raining my shit on people.[/quote]

You have offered plenty of insults. You just aren’t man enough to stand behind them, as you lob them from the safety of not being to personal.

I still have not seen any posts from you that offer any help to any one. You preface most everything with “this is moronic or illogical”. Then you finish your posts with “but I am just trying to learn, so please help me out”.

You have 5 years of pre-med. That means dick. I have 3 years of pre-vet. Big fucking deal.

Pub med is not going to help you design a cycle. You are left to your own on that.

TRT is pretty much a joke here in the US as very few doctors know a damn thing about the actions and interactions of anabolic steroids on the human body. They should know - but they don’t. If they did - there would not be the frustration you see here wrt doctor prescribed TRT.

I think you are book smart but have no damn clue what common sense is. You insult to start, then ask for help at the end. Time after time.

With the exception of the hcg thread - there is nothing you have offered in any respect that would even come close to making me look bad.

You have been called at least twice for giving outright stupid advice. Deca for only 4 weeks? Please. you must think I am a dumbass that just fell off a turnip truck.

If you are insulted by my posting style - I invite you to leave, and go to boards that allow people like you to post without fear of being called out.

Sadly for you - I will continue to do what I do here. Just as I have for the last 4 years. You will grow tired soon and leave. Your type always does.

Have you ever even done a cycle before? Or do you just read about it on pub med?

29

RAINJACK, This is obviously a dead-end with you, both in our discussion and in your ability to find fault. I do have a few recent posts only where I am probably being overly negative, but that would only be of recent and not a character trait.

I have no idea what you are talking about with the Deca for 4 weeks thing, I hope you have mistaken me with someone else and not that you have made up an outright lie - I’m am more than sure that you are mistaking me with someone else, because as I’ve stated before, even though I do feel that sometimes you can be an ass, and now in two treads you have picked fights with me; I have usually found your posts and presence beneficual and enjoyable, even though right now I find you to be an ass.

I have been a member of this board for 3 years and have done many cycles, and I don’t care to debate who’s dick is bigger or anything, let’s drop this and go on with what we do best and don’t be afraid to call me on anything I say, I know you won’t, as you and I would call out anyone we felt was offering bad advice/opinion or misrepresented truths and have butted heads over our strong opinions/knowledge twice now.

31

Sorry to post this again, its fallen way behind with you guys having a go at each other:

So Im on week 6 of an 8 week cycle of enanthate at 500mg per week and Im thinking of upping this to 12 weeks but using test prop for the last 4 weeks instead of enanthate so I can be clean for a drug test in January. Would I use HCG for the last 8 weeks due to a longer cycle? Ive heard sooo many conflicting reasons.

32

[quote]TheBeat wrote:
RAINJACK, This is obviously a dead-end with you, both in our discussion and in your ability to find fault. I do have a few recent posts only where I am probably being overly negative, but that would only be of recent and not a character trait.

I have no idea what you are talking about with the Deca for 4 weeks thing, I hope you have mistaken me with someone else and not that you have made up an outright lie - I’m am more than sure that you are mistaking me with someone else, because as I’ve stated before, even though I do feel that sometimes you can be an ass, and now in two treads you have picked fights with me; I have usually found your posts and presence beneficual and enjoyable, even though right now I find you to be an ass.

I have been a member of this board for 3 years and have done many cycles, and I don’t care to debate who’s dick is bigger or anything, let’s drop this and go on with what we do best and don’t be afraid to call me on anything I say, I know you won’t, as you and I would call out anyone we felt was offering bad advice/opinion or misrepresented truths and have butted heads over our strong opinions/knowledge twice now.
[/quote]

http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1688100

Yours is the second post. You are advising the OP in that thread to replace EQ with Deca in week 10 of a 16 week cycle.

Using a little math and some common sense - he would have to stop the Deca two weeks prior to his last test injection, or week 14. That’s 4 weeks on the deca. That’s bad advice.

In the cytomel thread, you are telling the OP that it is moronic to taper off T3.

No, I don’t have the wrong guy. You just need to pay attention.

34

thanks for that. thinking of using the prop to taper.

35

Just to second Bushy’s advice, that’s basically what I did.

I went through 2500iu of HCG (250iu eod) over a three week period, which covered my last week of cyp and then two weeks of prop. I then began to taper down, also with prop.

36

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Yours is the second post. You are advising the OP in that thread to replace EQ with Deca in week 10 of a 16 week cycle.

Using a little math and some common sense - he would have to stop the Deca two weeks prior to his last test injection, or week 14. That’s 4 weeks on the deca. That’s bad advice.

In the cytomel thread, you are telling the OP that it is moronic to taper off T3.

No, I don’t have the wrong guy. You just need to pay attention. [/quote]
This is rediculous… You’re right, I do need to pay attention - as you can easily see that I responded to that guy without reading his post in detail and ASSUMED at even mentioned in my post that I thought he was talking about 16 weeks (“You’re not planning on running winstrol for 16 weeks are you”) If I would have followed up, I would have seen his response of “I’m already 10 weeks in”!!!

RAINJACK our integrity is not the discussion of this thread, if you wish to debate about a particular issue, take it there, this thread was about HCG and you were wrong, simple as that! I showed you and everyone else some studies and all of a sudden you call me out and say I contribute nothing and call people dipshits? I don’t know whatever your problem with me is, or in general.