[quote]cord13 wrote:
difference between santa and god? no ones there to tell you at age 8 that theres no god.[/quote]
no you receive that “enlightenment” in 5th grade science class.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]cord13 wrote:
difference between santa and god? no ones there to tell you at age 8 that theres no god.[/quote]
[/quote]
ah, if only God protected individual people’s lives from bullets. THEN this caption would make sense.
What do you guys expect to happen when you die? Reunited with old family and friends or do you just “turn off” forever?
Over the past few days, I’ve tried to read more scripture and have more of an open mind about some of the topics discussed. One that really made me think was the discussion about “uncaused-cause” creation and the logic behind it. The thing is, I keep getting upset over some of the things I read in the Bible or the suffering I see in the world (including my own). Even though I don’t consider myself an Atheist, I’m having trouble finding any faith in any religions or beliefs. Even Buddhism, which I once enjoyed, I’m finding issues with now.
The part I don’t like about this mindset though, is related to my above post. If there really is nothing after life, then this is all so meaningless. Think about it for a minute: at some point, there is a chance (some would argue certainty) that you will not exist. The person you are will be gone forever.
[quote]BackInAction wrote:
What do you guys expect to happen when you die? Reunited with old family and friends or do you just “turn off” forever?[/quote]
I posted this in another thread, but this is what I feel happens:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…that’s for the Yard to find out, isn’t it?
[/quote]
Why would you call the yard…[/quote]
…dunno, but it wasn’t me!
[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Over the past few days, I’ve tried to read more scripture and have more of an open mind about some of the topics discussed. One that really made me think was the discussion about “uncaused-cause” creation and the logic behind it. The thing is, I keep getting upset over some of the things I read in the Bible or the suffering I see in the world (including my own). Even though I don’t consider myself an Atheist, I’m having trouble finding any faith in any religions or beliefs. Even Buddhism, which I once enjoyed, I’m finding issues with now.
The part I don’t like about this mindset though, is related to my above post. If there really is nothing after life, then this is all so meaningless. Think about it for a minute: at some point, there is a chance (some would argue certainty) that you will not exist. The person you are will be gone forever.[/quote]
I will say this: Pat has been EXTREMELY good about showing an unbiased argument in favor of a “uncaused cause”. Though we disagree on what the bible says about certain topics, at least for now, he has presented very nice arguments that make sense.
I do have to ask, though, about what you meant with the following:
[quote]
The thing is, I keep getting upset over some of the things I read in the Bible or the suffering I see in the world (including my own). [/quote]
You also mentioned that you have trouble finding FAITH in any belief system. Here is what the Bible says about faith @ Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is the assured expectations of things hoped for. The evident demonstration of realities, though not yet beheld.
Faith has to be based on something demonstrated already. This will take time, but it will also require taking in accurate knowledge about past events and how they affect us today.
[quote]BackInAction wrote:
What do you guys expect to happen when you die? Reunited with old family and friends or do you just “turn off” forever?[/quote]
…yes, non-existence. You know, like before you were born…
[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
[quote]BackInAction wrote:
What do you guys expect to happen when you die? Reunited with old family and friends or do you just “turn off” forever?[/quote]
I posted this in another thread, but this is what I feel happens:
http://watchtower.org/.../article_01.htm[/quote]
…watchtower? You’re not a Jehova’s Witness, are you?
[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
I will say this: Pat has been EXTREMELY good about showing an unbiased argument in favor of a “uncaused cause”. Though we disagree on what the bible says about certain topics, at least for now, he has presented very nice arguments that make sense.
[/quote]
He definitely did a job in presenting it!
[quote]
I do have to ask, though, about what you meant with the following:
The thing is, I keep getting upset over some of the things I read in the Bible or the suffering I see in the world (including my own). [/quote]
The more I read into anything now (religion, philosophy, hell even medical procedures), the more I don’t believe them. I’ve been trying to read more Bible verses and discussions (one of my friends is trying to be a minister and posts daily youtube videos on faith). Honestly, it just makes me upset now. I’m not specifically saying one verse, but just the general message of “pray and you will receive” (maybe not today, but eventually). The reason it makes me upset is because of how many people pray and don’t receive. The world is full of suffering, and I haven’t witnessed one miracle to make me think otherwise. I really wish I did, but I never have.
One of my doctors told me to have faith. I wanted to hit him because one of the major reasons I’m in such shitty medical shape is the result of his negligence. I wish he did more research rather than praying. Piece of shit doctor.
[quote]
You also mentioned that you have trouble finding FAITH in any belief system. Here is what the Bible says about faith @ Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is the assured expectations of things hoped for. The evident demonstration of realities, though not yet beheld.
Faith has to be based on something demonstrated already. This will take time, but it will also require taking in accurate knowledge about past events and how they affect us today.[/quote]
Yeah, if it was supposed to be something demonstrated, then I definitely don’t have any faith. And I definitely don’t have assured expectations of anything anymore. I’m not even talking in religiousness or spiritual contexts anymore. I just don’t have faith in anything. And that is kinda depressing.
NOTE: Sorry for this post. I received worse medical news today and need to see another doctor. It just made me lose it a bit. Thanks for the response.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
[quote]BackInAction wrote:
What do you guys expect to happen when you die? Reunited with old family and friends or do you just “turn off” forever?[/quote]
I posted this in another thread, but this is what I feel happens:
http://watchtower.org/.../article_01.htm[/quote]
…watchtower? You’re not a Jehova’s Witness, are you?
[/quote]
Yes, I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
[quote]BackInAction wrote:
What do you guys expect to happen when you die? Reunited with old family and friends or do you just “turn off” forever?[/quote]
I posted this in another thread, but this is what I feel happens:
http://watchtower.org/.../article_01.htm[/quote]
…watchtower? You’re not a Jehova’s Witness, are you?
[/quote]
Yes, I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.[/quote]
…my sister’s one of your lot. She’s… not right in the head, but the J.W.'s give her some kind of anchor though, so i guess that’s something…
[quote]BackInAction wrote:
[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
I will say this: Pat has been EXTREMELY good about showing an unbiased argument in favor of a “uncaused cause”. Though we disagree on what the bible says about certain topics, at least for now, he has presented very nice arguments that make sense.
[/quote]
He definitely did a job in presenting it!
[quote]
I do have to ask, though, about what you meant with the following:
The thing is, I keep getting upset over some of the things I read in the Bible or the suffering I see in the world (including my own). [/quote]
The more I read into anything now (religion, philosophy, hell even medical procedures), the more I don’t believe them. I’ve been trying to read more Bible verses and discussions (one of my friends is trying to be a minister and posts daily youtube videos on faith). Honestly, it just makes me upset now. I’m not specifically saying one verse, but just the general message of “pray and you will receive” (maybe not today, but eventually). The reason it makes me upset is because of how many people pray and don’t receive. The world is full of suffering, and I haven’t witnessed one miracle to make me think otherwise. I really wish I did, but I never have.
One of my doctors told me to have faith. I wanted to hit him because one of the major reasons I’m in such shitty medical shape is the result of his negligence. I wish he did more research rather than praying. Piece of shit doctor.
[quote]
You also mentioned that you have trouble finding FAITH in any belief system. Here is what the Bible says about faith @ Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is the assured expectations of things hoped for. The evident demonstration of realities, though not yet beheld.
Faith has to be based on something demonstrated already. This will take time, but it will also require taking in accurate knowledge about past events and how they affect us today.[/quote]
Yeah, if it was supposed to be something demonstrated, then I definitely don’t have any faith. And I definitely don’t have assured expectations of anything anymore. I’m not even talking in religiousness or spiritual contexts anymore. I just don’t have faith in anything. And that is kinda depressing.
NOTE: Sorry for this post. I received worse medical news today and need to see another doctor. It just made me lose it a bit. Thanks for the response.[/quote]
I am very sorry about your situation, BackInAction. I have never gone through any health issues, so I can’t imagine what you are going through.
By demonstrated, I didn’t mean God speaks to you or anything. I was referring to the demonstrations of God’s saving power in the Bible, specifically the Hebrew Scriptures. The 11th Chapter of Hebrews has many examples of what true faith has done for men of old.
Just to reiterate, I am not saying it is your fault for not having faith. It is very hard to have faith in something that doesn’t seem to be doing anything. However, I do have a few scriptures I would like to share as encouragement:
1 Peter 5:7
Isa 48:16-19
Phil 4:6,7
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
[quote]BackInAction wrote:
What do you guys expect to happen when you die? Reunited with old family and friends or do you just “turn off” forever?[/quote]
I posted this in another thread, but this is what I feel happens:
http://watchtower.org/.../article_01.htm[/quote]
…watchtower? You’re not a Jehova’s Witness, are you?
[/quote]
Yes, I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.[/quote]
…my sister’s one of your lot. She’s… not right in the head, but the J.W.'s give her some kind of anchor though, so i guess that’s something…
[/quote]
Are you saying her views are weird, or that she has a more physical problem?
[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…my sister’s one of your lot. She’s… not right in the head, but the J.W.'s give her some kind of anchor though, so i guess that’s something…
[/quote]
Are you saying her views are weird, or that she has a more physical problem?[/quote]
…she’s crazy. Has a history of abuse and addiction, and mentally she’s unstable…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…my sister’s one of your lot. She’s… not right in the head, but the J.W.'s give her some kind of anchor though, so i guess that’s something…
[/quote]
Are you saying her views are weird, or that she has a more physical problem?[/quote]
…she’s crazy. Has a history of abuse and addiction, and mentally she’s unstable…
[/quote]
Oh, I am sorry to hear that. I am glad she is able to find a support system.
[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
[quote]BackInAction wrote:
[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
I will say this: Pat has been EXTREMELY good about showing an unbiased argument in favor of a “uncaused cause”. Though we disagree on what the bible says about certain topics, at least for now, he has presented very nice arguments that make sense.
[/quote]
He definitely did a job in presenting it!
[quote]
I do have to ask, though, about what you meant with the following:
The thing is, I keep getting upset over some of the things I read in the Bible or the suffering I see in the world (including my own). [/quote]
The more I read into anything now (religion, philosophy, hell even medical procedures), the more I don’t believe them. I’ve been trying to read more Bible verses and discussions (one of my friends is trying to be a minister and posts daily youtube videos on faith). Honestly, it just makes me upset now. I’m not specifically saying one verse, but just the general message of “pray and you will receive” (maybe not today, but eventually). The reason it makes me upset is because of how many people pray and don’t receive. The world is full of suffering, and I haven’t witnessed one miracle to make me think otherwise. I really wish I did, but I never have.
One of my doctors told me to have faith. I wanted to hit him because one of the major reasons I’m in such shitty medical shape is the result of his negligence. I wish he did more research rather than praying. Piece of shit doctor.
[quote]
You also mentioned that you have trouble finding FAITH in any belief system. Here is what the Bible says about faith @ Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is the assured expectations of things hoped for. The evident demonstration of realities, though not yet beheld.
Faith has to be based on something demonstrated already. This will take time, but it will also require taking in accurate knowledge about past events and how they affect us today.[/quote]
Yeah, if it was supposed to be something demonstrated, then I definitely don’t have any faith. And I definitely don’t have assured expectations of anything anymore. I’m not even talking in religiousness or spiritual contexts anymore. I just don’t have faith in anything. And that is kinda depressing.
NOTE: Sorry for this post. I received worse medical news today and need to see another doctor. It just made me lose it a bit. Thanks for the response.[/quote]
I am very sorry about your situation, BackInAction. I have never gone through any health issues, so I can’t imagine what you are going through.
By demonstrated, I didn’t mean God speaks to you or anything. I was referring to the demonstrations of God’s saving power in the Bible, specifically the Hebrew Scriptures. The 11th Chapter of Hebrews has many examples of what true faith has done for men of old.
Just to reiterate, I am not saying it is your fault for not having faith. It is very hard to have faith in something that doesn’t seem to be doing anything. However, I do have a few scriptures I would like to share as encouragement:
1 Peter 5:7
Isa 48:16-19
Phil 4:6,7[/quote]
Thank you for the kind words and scriptures. You’re a good person, honest_lifter.
[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Over the past few days, I’ve tried to read more scripture and have more of an open mind about some of the topics discussed. One that really made me think was the discussion about “uncaused-cause” creation and the logic behind it. The thing is, I keep getting upset over some of the things I read in the Bible or the suffering I see in the world (including my own). Even though I don’t consider myself an Atheist, I’m having trouble finding any faith in any religions or beliefs. Even Buddhism, which I once enjoyed, I’m finding issues with now.
The part I don’t like about this mindset though, is related to my above post. If there really is nothing after life, then this is all so meaningless. Think about it for a minute: at some point, there is a chance (some would argue certainty) that you will not exist. The person you are will be gone forever.[/quote]
Ah, the “Problem of Evil”. That’s officially what it is called. I don’t pretend to understand all that myself. Why could not God make a world without suffering? After all he is God? Well, I just don’t know. I suppose it’s a test or something. All I know is I hate it.
I further know that in my recent struggles I would have probably made some bad decisions, where it not for my faith. I am not saying it I would be a worse person or what not, it’s that it helped me stick it out where the situation was otherwise so painful to endure, any escape would have been preferable, but it would have been a mistake too. I can see that now. That’s just from a very recent personal example.But I agree, and it’s a bone I have to pick with the Almighty when I see him. I can understand assholes getting what they deserve, but not kids and innocent people like the folks in the Congo who where slaughtered with impunity just because they happened to be there.
What if we’re wrong and we cease to exist? No harm. We wasted a little time. That’s worst case scenario for that, but I won’t exist to care either so it wouldn’t much matter…In the end, we all waste a lot of time, like say, this forum. In the end very little matters. If there is nothing after this, then nothing we do matters, at all.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]BackInAction wrote:
What do you guys expect to happen when you die? Reunited with old family and friends or do you just “turn off” forever?[/quote]
…yes, non-existence. You know, like before you were born…[/quote]
Really? How do you know?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…my sister’s one of your lot. She’s… not right in the head, but the J.W.'s give her some kind of anchor though, so i guess that’s something…
[/quote]
Are you saying her views are weird, or that she has a more physical problem?[/quote]
…she’s crazy. Has a history of abuse and addiction, and mentally she’s unstable…
[/quote]
No, no, their not talking about your mom!