[quote]ZEB wrote:
We might be about two Supreme Court Justices away from overturning Roe Vs Wade. Interesting huh?[/quote]
And, realistically, it’s two of the most likely to retire: Stevens and O’Connor. Rehnquist, with the right set of facts, would likely already vote that way. Ginsberg would be another switch – Kennedy could go either way, depending on the facts of the case and the persuasiveness of the briefs.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
And, realistically, it’s two of the most likely to retire: Stevens and O’Connor. Rehnquist, with the right set of facts, would likely already vote that way. Ginsberg would be another switch – Kennedy could go either way, depending on the facts of the case and the persuasiveness of the briefs.[/quote]
I thought Rehnquist was going to be the first to go. I heard somewhere that his health was declining fairly rapidly, and hw eould be the first to be replaced. Justice Thomas would be the new Chief Justice.
Not that it matters much - just something I heard.
rainjack:
I am guessing Rehnquist stays. I think the announcement regarding his Thyroid cancer operation prior to the election was more political than anything else. He could have waited a few days to announce that news, Edwards wife waited.
I think he wanted to give the fine voters of America a jolt of reality: “Hey gang Kerry could be picking the next Supreme Court Justice…wake up.” Fortunately they did!
I am pretty well versed on the Bible, but I am not sure where it talks about abortion. Could someone direct me to the scriptures surrounding this issue? I just want to read up on it. Thanks.
Roy:
Good question.
I do think there is a scripture that refers to the (human) spirit entering the body at conception. Please no one jump me on this as I am trying hard to recollect, and I could be wrong. Someone who is better versed than I could probably point out the exact verse.
[quote]Roy Batty wrote:
I am pretty well versed on the Bible, but I am not sure where it talks about abortion. Could someone direct me to the scriptures surrounding this issue? I just want to read up on it. Thanks.[/quote]
Psalm 139 13 - For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. 14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. 15 My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, 16 your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.
This is the first one that comes to mind. This proves that in God’s eyes you were fully human and He had a life for you to live while you were still in your mother’s womb. If you are like many people on this forum who understand this but still think they are entitled to end that life because it won’t be good enough, or it might inconvenience them, or they don’t have enough education, well then I really cannot help you.
Roy- Here is a link to a short article that references many of the verses in the bible that touch on abortion:
This is not a political question, but a question concerning law:
Why should a woman not have legal rights over her own body?
The formation of a half dozen cells should have rights over woman?
Abortion was legal for over 1000 years under English common law. It was legal in the U.S. up until the mid 1800s, and banned due to dangerous procedure.
Illegal abortions were highly popular, especially in Texas. The problem was with Texas law, doctors kept getting prosecuted, it was always their fault. The woman under Texas law was always the victim, under all circumstances, and free from prosecution.
To the GOP, theres a bit of tort reform for ya.
your (the US) republicans/right side, are kind of strange. they talk about rights and how the government is bad when trying to control them from owning guns and such (government control=bad). but at the same time says abortion and gay marriage is bad.
what do these people(one of you?), think about miss carriage? is that man slaughter? what about if you take some kind of poison wich causes miss carriage?
[quote]Tok wrote:
your (the US) republicans/right side, are kind of strange. they talk about rights and how the government is bad when trying to control them from owning guns and such (government control=bad). but at the same time says abortion and gay marriage is bad.
what do these people(one of you?), think about miss carriage? is that man slaughter? what about if you take some kind of poison wich causes miss carriage?[/quote]
Are you serious with this? You take this little twist on everything, and call others strange?
First of all what do rights encompass? Do you know? I am sure your understanding is different then mine.
Do you know that where there is gun control, there is an increase in crime, and where the gun control laws are relaxed, crime decreases? But that is not the only deal with guns.
Why is there this discussion about guns? Just because people have them does not mean they all want to go on a killing spree. Cars kill more people, but nobody wants them banned. (Except extreme left wing environmental nuts.)
I know you want to change the subject, and bring in other things, like guns, thinking it will help win your argument. Again this is showing you cannot win the argument just because you have to go off subject, and add things in. Pretty soon we will be discussing waffle irons.
As far as abortion, why does a person who was foolish enough to engage in sex without any form of birth control get to choose if another person lives or dies?
Oh wait, it is not a life, until the head is out of the vagina is it. If your head is in a vagina then you can abort it. Why do we need abortions at 8 months? That is the law right now. Even if a woman is going through labor at 9 months, it is still legal to get an abortion.
First you need to understand that this organism has different DNA then the mother, so it is a separate organism. Second at the end of 30 days it has measurable brain waves. To me that is life.
As far as the rights of the mother, she made the choice when she was fucking. A couple of years ago my wife forgot to take her birth control. We didn?t want another child, but we engaged in the activity, and have to live with the results.
We will not kill just to make life easier for us. That has to be the most selfish, childish, sick event ever devised.
I realize you don?t think it is alive, and cannot see the other point of view. I see a baby there, so abortion constitutes the killing of a child to me. So the argument for abortion sounds like the argument that killing children is good.
Sure I realize that you care about the people who get pregnant, but they were the ones who took the action to get pregnant in the first place.
Also I wonder if people realize that those who believe in abortion are having fewer children then those who don?t. What does that mean? An expanding pro-life group, and a shrinking pro-choice group. A political belief that causes a shrinking of their group, now that is smart.
Now about the gay marriage, I personally couldn?t care about that. I do have a problem with requiring others to accept it though. Telling a person that disagrees with the practice that they have to recognize it, might not be the right thing to do. And that is what gay marriage attempts to do.
But many who are opposed to gay marriage still support civil unions. At which point I get confused. It is just a fucking word. Why does anybody care. If civil unions are allowed, then the homosexuals win. They get a marriage, they just use a different word. Then again if it is the same thing, why do those on the right care what it is called? I find this a foolish argument on both sides.
Let’s see what else you tossed in this little salad of a discussion. Miscarriage. Oh, you think any miscarriage is the same as an abortion? Miscarriage happens all the time. It devastates many families. I don’t see why you bring it up.
Actually I believe you are bringing up the chemical abortion. I might believe in a day after pill if it is actually the day after, or maybe within seven day of. Once the nervous system starts developing, (2 weeks) I think that?s it.
[quote]AKA
Based on the fact that abortions are the rare end to a pregnancy and even rarer end to sexual activity, I’d say it does happen.
A rare end to a rare result? 27.3 Women per 1000 isn’t a very low rate IMHO (source: Abortions and Abortion Rates)
Not to mention a 33% abortion:pregnancy ratio for those between 15 and 19, at at rate of 84 per 1000 15-19 year olds (source: Viasat Internet Service Providers Near Me)[/quote]
Thank you, 27.3/1000 and 84/1000 are, de facto, a rarity and those numbers are on a /pregnancy or /person basis, not /sexual encounter(s!). Your post, the way I understood it was 'with kids (those most likely to have “5000 tons of vitamin T”) large abortion/encounter ratios are inevitable because they will always be having sex, which leads to having unwanted pregnancies that end in abortions.
My point is that teenagers can have sex without getting pregnant and without getting abortions and that it happens every day (My wife and I enjoyed years of this). Neither one of us knows the potential to reduce the abortions/person or abortions/pregnancy numbers. Personally, (I guess I’m somewhat optimistic in this instance) I think those numbers can be improved dramatically. Your statements seemed to suggest otherwise. In either case, I don’t believe the problem has been explored enough or is trivial enough to shrug and say “ain’t gonna happen, mate.”
Incidentally, I’ve been told by people who are 100% pro-choice that my views are more pro-choice than pro-life, so I’m not so sure that we’re on opposite sides of the fence here.
I think I have a solution that will curb abortion. It should be mandatory to watch a sonogram of the process AND listen to the heartbeat go from 140 to 170 bpm to zero. They should watch the sonogram of the doctor scraping out their child. If this was mandatory, I think less people would be so willing to kill a “fetus”. Of course, there should be a contingency for women who are in serious questions of health, in which case an abortion is simply self-defense.
Attached is a picture of my son. It was taken a few weeks ago. Last night, I was talking to him with my mouth on momma’s belly and he started kickin’ me in the head. That’s my boy!
[quote]The Mage wrote:
But many who are opposed to gay marriage still support civil unions. At which point I get confused. It is just a fucking word. Why does anybody care. If civil unions are allowed, then the homosexuals win. They get a marriage, they just use a different word. Then again if it is the same thing, why do those on the right care what it is called? I find this a foolish argument on both sides.
[/quote]
How about Negro Bathrooms and White Bathrooms? The same thing, just different names, right? I would be in favor of only civil unions (and I’m sure many gays would too) if it were the case that marriage and civil unions were exactly the same. But we all know that separate but equal is definitely separate but never equal.
[quote]The Mage wrote:
Pretty soon we will be discussing waffle irons.
[/quote]
That was funny. 
What is it with the bible…read my thread on gay marriage…
People if you think its wrong… fine. If you dont like something fine. But please stop using the bible. How about having your own beliefs without having to grasp at God or the Bible for varification.
[quote]icklemoley wrote:
What is it with the bible…read my thread on gay marriage…
People if you think its wrong… fine. If you dont like something fine. But please stop using the bible. How about having your own beliefs without having to grasp at God or the Bible for varification.[/quote]
oh… next we can ask scientist to please not use math or the scientific method to come up with how the universe works!
[quote]icklemoley wrote:
What is it with the bible…
quote]
If you didn’t notice, Roy asked for Bible verses.
JackZepplin,
That was a great post. I can’t wait to hear what the other side comes up with in response.
Babies always look like they are sucking their thumbs during those ultrasounds. Is that really what they are doing? Very sweet. I absolutely cannot wait to be pregnant!
JP Bear:
I did read it actually. But thank you for pointing it out in such a friendly manner! My point is that we use the bible to say what is right and wrong, yet when you read the bible correctly you’ll see what i’m talking about. Again, re - gay marriage thread. I’m not saying people can’t believe, they can and should believe what they like, but when we use the bible to bash something (like its gospal) we dont like lets have a little balls and say “i dont like this or that” rather than “the bible says youll go to hell. Or its wrong. etc…” JP … im sure youll make an excellent mother.
[quote]JPBear wrote:
JackZepplin,
That was a great post. I can’t wait to hear what the other side comes up with in response.
Babies always look like they are sucking their thumbs during those ultrasounds. Is that really what they are doing? Very sweet. I absolutely cannot wait to be pregnant!
[/quote]
I’m sure they’ll flame me for being a religious, right-wing, nut job. You know what? I’m OK with that. Hell, I’m OK with any generalizations they want to make about me or conservative America. I’m comfortable with the “red states” having such a profound effect on the Nation’s social direction. It’s necessary.
They do suck their thumbs a lot in the womb. It’s a reflex. That is how they take to the breast so easily when they are brought into the outside world. I love playing with the babies when they are still in Momma’s belly. My daughter used to push back every time I’d push on her. Jr. like to kick pretty hard. He was going bonkers last night when I was talking to him. It nearly took my wife’s breath away. Of course, she did eat Jalapeno’s on her sandwich (why, I don’t know).
Sorry for the hijack. Back on topic… Ready, set, FLAME!