On TRT ironically for reasons that have nothing to do with steroids. Keen to add some Tbol for a cut. Will be my first cycle so keen for some advice on dosages and PCT
What I was thinking:
Current regimen: TRT @ 100mg/day scrotal cream
Week 1: Continue with the TRT as is + 20mg tbol
Week 2: Continue with the TRT as is + 20mg tbol
Week 3: Continue with the TRT as is + 20mg tbol
Week 4: Continue with the TRT as is + 20mg tbol
Week 5: Continue with the TRT as is
Week 6: Continue with the TRT as is + 40mg Nolvadex
Week 7: Continue with the TRT as is + 20mg Nolvadex
No need for Nolvadex. Nolvadex is used in a PCT to help speed up the bodies recovery of the HPTA. You are on TRT which shuts down the HPTA. You could use Nolvadex if you are ever planning to get off of TRT, but there isn’t a reason to use it while planning on staying on TRT.
You could and probably should use something like TUDCA to help your liver while on oral steroids. I think 500 mg of it a day is good. I would use it for two weeks post oral steroid use as well.
20 mg of Tbol added to TRT isn’t going to be anything crazy. If just using Tbol and TRT, I would use 40 mg/day, but that is just me. I don’t think with only TRT 20 mg is worth it.
Thanks for the explanation that makes sense. I’ve read that taurine can help with the shin pain that some people experience. Have you found that to be true, and would that be in lieu of or in addition to TUDCA?
I agree that the results will not be anything crazy. My rationale behind running 20mg for 4 weeks is that it’s my first cycle, and I’m not sure how it will affect me. At the end of it, I’m hoping to have dropped a few percentage points of body fat
Taurine is commonly used for back pumps and shin pain while on oral steroids. I have used it while using Tbol. If you get those issues (not all do), then try like 2,000 mg of Taurine pre workout (to start). Many go up from there. A buddy of mine has used 8,000 mg pre workout, and said it works. They generally come in 1,000 mg pills (they are large capsules).
TUDCA has a different purpose than Taurine (Taurine won’t impact the liver, or at least not much). TUDCA has been shown to reduce liver enzymes (ALT, AST). Those enzymes are pretty good indicators of liver health. A study showed that 500 mg/day of TUDCA lowered liver enzymes in those with elevated liver enzymes by like 50% over a couple of months. Oral AAS will almost always elevate liver enzymes, meaning that they are difficult on the liver. The liver is pretty good at recovering though, if it doesn’t keep getting abuse. A short period of abuse is usually okay, and you recover. TUDCA is just something that should help the liver while you abuse it with oral steroids.
Tbol is pretty mild stuff. I don’t think you will be able to tell you are on it, aside from improved muscle stamina and a bit of top end strength. It is good for athletics. You could do a week at 20 mg and assess what you think, then move up in dose if you are handling it well. I really like Tbol though. It is just enough of an edge for me to improve on my sets and keep progressing.
My opinion is - never mix TRT with other steroids. Just like cruise - never mix it with other steroids.
TRT is for health.
Cruise is like TRT but for athletes who need to maintain gains from a blast.
Blast is a most optimal steroids protocol for a certain person to reap the most benefits.
When you add shit to TRT or Cruise all you get is a moronic fucking shitty blast, which does very little or nothing for gains, but it does ruin the whole point of being on TRT or a Cruise.
Its like taking a deload from squats but PR’ing leg presses till you puke.
Also, even if you gain something from these added steroids, if you plan on going back to your TRT, your gains will be gone, because most likely a true TRT cant maintain gains of something that is MORE than natural.
So either you do a blast that will get you somewhere, which would be followed by a cruise to maintain these gains, OR just stick to whatever you are doing because there really is no point of running some orals with TRT for 8-12 weeks and then just going back to exactly where you were.
I run TBol blasts from time to time. IMO, 20 mg won’t do much. Also, TBol has a fairly short half life and should be taken morning and night. Also (for me) Tbol increases bodyweight. It does not aromatize nor cause water gain, so I’m not exactly sure of the mechanism behind the weight gain but its there. Not a bad thing at all, just be aware of it and don’t freak out when you’re trying to cut with a drug that for some increases bodyweight.
Hey Stud, you may have confused your orals. Tbol has one of the longest half lives of the popular orals at 16 hours. Var, Winny, Dbol etc are nowhere close especially dbol.
Possibly due to lowering shbg? Lower shbg can mean higher free test, and higher e2. All these things are individual. Lower shbg increases clearance rate for testosterone, so some end up with lower TT, and lower FT, but I think most do get higher FT even if TT goes down.
As to the half life, it’s short compared to most injectable AAS, but very long for an oral. Better to take twice a day, but if you are forgetting the second dose (more people do this than you would think going into it, at least i get lazy / forgetful after a couple weeks), I think it’s worse than once a day. I take it in the mornings.
The only reason to include nolvadex here would be for non-aromatizing gyno symptoms (if it occurs) while taking tbol.
(similar to anadrol - maybe it is estrogen receptor binding for some reason I do not know exactly)
Oxandrolone (Anavar) would be a superior option, or even mesterolone (Proviron), since you are planning a cut.
I disagree, “orals” can be used for TRT (given reasonable dosage), be it for a DHT “boost” and/or a reduction in SHBG.
If I were you and wanted to lose some weight without losing muscle, I’d just up my test dose to 200mg/w until I reached the desired weight. But the general opinion is that PEDs are used to build muscle, not help you lose weight. If you want to lose weight, eat less, sleep more and optimize your training. Once you’ve done that you could run a proper 500mg/w cycle for 16 weeks and return to your TRT dose after that. No PCT needed. Bloodwork will tell you if you need an AI or not. If you’re dead set on using tbol, add it towards the end of your cycle to get that extra boost.
This is the first time I’ve read tbol would cause this and at his proposed doses, the odds are he’ll be fine. Nevertheless, it’s always good to have everything at hand before using any new drug.
Well I wouldn’t say you are wrong compared to injectables but its pretty much the longest oral. I would agree that taking it twice a day is ideal but its definitely one of those you could get away with once.
I’ve had very mild gyno my entire life (long before TRT and contemplating this cycle) so I imagine I’d be quite prone to it. Is it something that can be taken prophylactically?