[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
What “twisting” are you talking about? What “ridiculous stance”? This is becoming a joke.
I used the term “civil society” - you erroneously ascribed your own meaning to it, saying it meant “top down” society (which is the exact opposite), and then went on about something. That is the wrong definition, you were shown that, and now you are deflecting with claims of “twisting” to salvage your preciously fragile ego?
There is no “ridiculous stance” - I was merely using the real definition. You got exposed again - just say “oops” on this one too.
It is very hard to have any respect for you, Vroom. You tried to make a point on “civil society” when you were dead wrong - how hard is it to say “I was wrong”…?
That said, can be truly said that only the Iraqi people can win this thing: and that has been the mantra from everyone, including blood-drinking “neocons” from day one.[/quote]
Are you on crack?
A “ridiculous stance” is what you make up for me, as in putting words or statements in my mouth on my behalf. You are so busy trying to “win” you can’t even parse what the hell I’m saying.
Probably attributable to your hate-on.
I’d be happy to state I wasn’t aware of what you meant by “civil society”, but at the same time, as I highlighted by quoting part of the page, it seems to be a somewhat theoretical all-encompassing sociological construct (I thought you weren’t fond of those).
I’m certainly not familiar with all currently accepted academic sociological theories worldwide, or their historical significance, as you are, so, yes, my bad.
http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/CCS/what_is_civil_society.htm
[i]
What is civil society? Civil society is a concept located strategically at the cross-section of important strands of intellectual developments in the social sciences. To take account of the diversity of the concept, CCS adopted an initial working definition that is meant to guide research activities and teaching, but is by no means to be interpreted as a rigid statement:
Civil society refers to the arena of uncoerced collective action around shared interests, purposes and values. In theory, its institutional forms are distinct from those of the state, family and market, though in practice, the boundaries between state, civil society, family and market are often complex, blurred and negotiated. Civil society commonly embraces a diversity of spaces, actors and institutional forms, varying in their degree of formality, autonomy and power. Civil societies are often populated by organisations such as registered charities, development non-governmental organisations, community groups, women's organisations, faith-based organisations, professional associations, trades unions, self-help groups, social movements, business associations, coalitions and advocacy group.
Why civil society? What is this sudden interest in civil society all about? Some may recall that the term was en vogue in the 18th and 19th centuries, but had long fallen into disuse, and became a term of interest to historians primarily. For CCS, the answer is obvious but full of implications. For a long time, social scientists believed that we lived in a two-sector world. There was the market or the economy on the one hand, and the state or government on the other. Our great theories speak to them, and virtually all our energy was dedicated to exploring the two institutional complexes of market and state. Nothing else seemed to matter much.
Not surprisingly, ‘society’ was pushed to the sidelines and ultimately became a very abstract notion, relegated to the confines of sociological theorising and social philosophy, not fitting the two-sector world view that has dominated the social sciences for the last fifty years. Likewise, the notion that a ‘third sector’ might exist between market and state somehow got lost in the two-sector view of the world. Of course, there were and are many private institutions that serve public purposes-voluntary associations, charities, nonprofits, foundations and non-governmental organisations-that do not fit the state-market dichotomy. Yet, until quite recently, such third-sector institutions were neglected if not ignored outright by all social sciences.
Such a short-sided approach has had disastrous consequences for our understanding of how economy and society interact, of which the inability of the social sciences to predict and understand the fall of communism in central and eastern Europe is just one of many examples. One of the most important events of the 20th century escaped the attention of mainstream social science until after the fact. Looking back, we can see how events in central and eastern Europe were indeed instrumental in bringing the topic of civil society to the attention of social scientists in the West.
CCS researchers would reach similar conclusions for the way in which the social sciences typically approached ‘development’ in the South. For too long we have held preconceived notions of ‘the’ market and ‘the’ state that were seemingly independent of local societies and cultures. The debate about civil society ultimately is about how culture, market and state relate to each other.
Concern about civil society, however, is not only relevant to central and eastern Europe and the developing world. It is very much of interest to the European Union as well. The Civil Dialogue initiated by the Commission in the 1990s was a first attempt by the EU to give the institutions of society-and not only governments and businesses-a voice at the policy-making tables in Brussels. The EU, like other international institutions, has a long way to go in trying to accommodate the frequently divergent interests of non-governmental organisations and citizen groups. There is increasing recognition that international and national governments have to open up to civil society institutions.
One could reach a similar conclusion about the United Kingdom, where the transition to post-industrial society brings up many important questions about social cohesion and social participation in a country that is becoming increasingly heterogeneous and diverse. What role will civil society institutions play; what is the function of charity and philanthropy in a more diverse Britain, and what will be the impact of devolution on the voluntary sector?[/i]
