A Velocity Experiment

Nutrition
21

[quote]Wolverin wrote:
steve.rt wrote:

Broccoli and spinach:
I like vegetables.100 g spinach has got 23 kcal,and some fiber.Broccoli has 34 kcal per 100 g,and fiber.There are only positives in adding cruciferous vegetables to the VD.One of them is better quality shit.Another is a better acid/base ratio.

Whipping cream and olive oil:
One tbsp wipping cream in each shake.3 g fat.Ups the taste,adds a little sat fat to the diet.

10 g olive oil on non-training days,30 g on training days:Coming from the Anabolic Diet,I will keep the carbs low.I’ve substituted them with energy in the form of fat,and the benefits of olive oil should be well known.

I stay withing the low calorie,high protein framework of the diet,while tweaking it to fit me.

I think part the V-diet is written the way it is has to do with long term effects. Trying to reprogram your mind with what rewarding in eating a whole foods meal. Perhaps manipulating the formula may interfere with the long term results of the diet. Possibly the the weight loss during the diet as well. It sure seems like a waste of money if you were looking to the diet for certain results, and you buy all the supps and end up failing. Something tells me whipping cream and olive oil would possibly hamper the weightloss. But what do I know? Ultimatley you may want to contact Chris Shugart for his opinion. I wish you the best of luck with your goals.

Steve

Alot of people hear ‘Olive oil and whipping cream’ and think it’s a sure-fire way to fail on any fat-loss plan,especially this one.

Ammounts.From the cream I’m getting 10 g of fat a day.From the olive oil I get 27 on lifting days and 9 on non-lifting days.Lonnie Lowery thinks 100 g fat is required to keep T-Levels normal in men.Add in the fish-oil,and I get from 47-57 g of fat a day.Can’t see how that would impair fat loss,but thanks for the feedback!

For someone looking to get the habit-breaking and gaining benefits of the diet,it might be a good idea to only use shakes.

My goal is strictly fatloss.

We’ll see.This will be interesting!
[/quote]
Keep this in mind. Do you think Lonnie Lowery discerns where those 100 grams of fat come from? Of course. Lets look at 2 ends of the spectrum. 100 grams of Crisco, or 100 grams of fish oil. I know you aren’t using Crisco, but you get the point.

Steve

22

[quote]Wolverin wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
Taran wrote:
I have seen a lot of people adding PB, is this “officially” recommonded or just something people have taken up to compensate for weakness of character? (that is actually not meant to be a burn to the OP, I just can’t think of a better way to explain it)

Natural PB (no added sugar or oil type only, i.e. only ingredients are peanuts and salt) is now an officially acceptable add per Shugs. But not this other stuff.

In my opinion,anything that won’t make the diet less effective is acceptable.Vegetables.There is no way adding nutrient dense,low-calorie vegetables will impact this diet negatively.

One of the selling points of the diet is better eating habits,more control.If a person is to have healthy vegetables as his only solid food choices next to the shakes,he might have an easier time getting to like and use them.And be better off during the diet,and in the long run.

That’s speculation though.I know I’d feel strange in many ways not eating veggies.

[/quote]

Based on your pic, it’s obvious you know quite a bit about nutrition. So you should feel free to make any changes to the diet you feel are necessary.

23

[quote]steve.rt wrote:
Wolverin wrote:
steve.rt wrote:

Broccoli and spinach:
I like vegetables.100 g spinach has got 23 kcal,and some fiber.Broccoli has 34 kcal per 100 g,and fiber.There are only positives in adding cruciferous vegetables to the VD.One of them is better quality shit.Another is a better acid/base ratio.

Whipping cream and olive oil:
One tbsp wipping cream in each shake.3 g fat.Ups the taste,adds a little sat fat to the diet.

10 g olive oil on non-training days,30 g on training days:Coming from the Anabolic Diet,I will keep the carbs low.I’ve substituted them with energy in the form of fat,and the benefits of olive oil should be well known.

I stay withing the low calorie,high protein framework of the diet,while tweaking it to fit me.

I think part the V-diet is written the way it is has to do with long term effects. Trying to reprogram your mind with what rewarding in eating a whole foods meal. Perhaps manipulating the formula may interfere with the long term results of the diet. Possibly the the weight loss during the diet as well. It sure seems like a waste of money if you were looking to the diet for certain results, and you buy all the supps and end up failing. Something tells me whipping cream and olive oil would possibly hamper the weightloss. But what do I know? Ultimatley you may want to contact Chris Shugart for his opinion. I wish you the best of luck with your goals.

Steve

Alot of people hear ‘Olive oil and whipping cream’ and think it’s a sure-fire way to fail on any fat-loss plan,especially this one.

Ammounts.From the cream I’m getting 10 g of fat a day.From the olive oil I get 27 on lifting days and 9 on non-lifting days.Lonnie Lowery thinks 100 g fat is required to keep T-Levels normal in men.Add in the fish-oil,and I get from 47-57 g of fat a day.Can’t see how that would impair fat loss,but thanks for the feedback!

For someone looking to get the habit-breaking and gaining benefits of the diet,it might be a good idea to only use shakes.

My goal is strictly fatloss.

We’ll see.This will be interesting!

Keep this in mind. Do you think Lonnie Lowery discerns where those 100 grams of fat come from? Of course. Lets look at 2 ends of the spectrum. 100 grams of Crisco, or 100 grams of fish oil. I know you aren’t using Crisco, but you get the point.

Steve
[/quote]

Of course!

The lipid profile has to be balanced.Not to get stuck on a number,but those 100 grams should come from a balance of mono,saturated and polyunsaturated fats.I think JB mentions a 30/30/30 split,give or take a few percent.

24

[quote]Wolverin wrote:
For someone looking to get the habit-breaking and gaining benefits of the diet,it might be a good idea to only use shakes.

My goal is strictly fatloss.[/quote]

You’re probably not going to fail miserably. However, it is a proven fact that anyone who has made modifications to the diet has not succeeded.

Here’s why- a little whipping cream today, and tomorrow- oh hell I’m still losing weight let’s add a little more. It just snowballs from there. It may not happen to you, but statistically it probably will as you get farther along, or if you see a stall in weight loss.

It’s all just a warning. You can choose not to follow our advice, but don’t dare ever say the diet doesn’t work if you fail it or if you just don’t lose that much weight.

25

[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
Wolverin wrote:
For someone looking to get the habit-breaking and gaining benefits of the diet,it might be a good idea to only use shakes.

My goal is strictly fatloss.

You’re probably not going to fail miserably. However, it is a proven fact that anyone who has made modifications to the diet has not succeeded.

Here’s why- a little whipping cream today, and tomorrow- oh hell I’m still losing weight let’s add a little more. It just snowballs from there. It may not happen to you, but statistically it probably will as you get farther along, or if you see a stall in weight loss.

It’s all just a warning. You can choose not to follow our advice, but don’t dare ever say the diet doesn’t work if you fail it or if you just don’t lose that much weight.[/quote]

I agree whole-heartedly,if the person in question was obese and had no self-control.Their problem is the ‘just one more’ psychology.Mine isn’t.

How can I say the Velocity Diet failed if I didn’t follow that diet?My experiment would have failed.It won’t.Time will tell.

Thanks for the warnings,though!I know they are all well-meaning.

26

If you really have the ‘self-control’, why don’t you
a) go lift a few weights. Maybe, just maybe, you’ll add a little muscle to your scrawny ass and bump your metabolism up a little.
b) if you know so much about nutrition to talk about the ratios/benefits of what type of fats you’re getting, why don’t you just cut some of the bad crap out of your diet that you must be eating to have gotten so extremely overweight.
c) don’t call it a VDiet experiment. What you’re doing ain’t the VDiet and it just perpetuates the notion of every 12 year old in here that thinks it’s OK to do the VDiet, but add a gallon of ice cream a week.

That’s just my opinion, but what do I know, I actually read and understood the point of the VDiet - you don’t get to make shit up as you go. Do what you want, but call it ‘My silly diet experiment’ and stop wasting people’s time.

27

Just so everyone is clear on the peanut butter thing: Chris added in the PB recommendation because of Flameout. Instead of taking 21 caps a day of fishoil, its now only 4… And the missing 170 calories were replaced by the PB. It wasnt just some magical recommendation.

28

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
It wasnt just some magical recommendation.[/quote]

LOL. Well said. It was simply the addition of monounsaturated (or “friendly”) fats. No voo-doo.

Of course, some guys will have seen “It’s okay to add PB” and now will add solid cheese. It used to annoy me, but it’s now a great source of amusement for me.

29

Here’s an idea…let the poor fucker try his diet! Mienkia… mean, ok, it’s def. not the V-diet, but some of you guys are like star wars fans fighting over who would win in a fight, Darth Maul or Mace Windu (the answer is Windu).

It’s his expirement…let him win or lose with it.

Personally, i think the cream is an odd choice, but I dont know why everyone is cummin in their panties about the olive oil…if it’s extra virgin, fuckin drink it. Do you think there is some magical effect to adding natural pb? Nope.

30

[quote]IL Cazzo wrote:
Here’s an idea…let the poor fucker try his diet! Mienkia… mean, ok, it’s def. not the V-diet, but some of you guys are like star wars fans fighting over who would win in a fight, Darth Maul or Mace Windu (the answer is Windu).

It’s his expirement…let him win or lose with it.

Personally, i think the cream is an odd choice, but I dont know why everyone is cummin in their panties about the olive oil…if it’s extra virgin, fuckin drink it. Do you think there is some magical effect to adding natural pb? Nope.

[/quote]

I tend to agree with this for the most part. While the whip cream was an odd choice, the olive oil should be just fine. Some people go a little TOO crazy with the whole “Well, Chris Shugart never said to…”. We all know Chris wrote the diet, but he wrote it using sound dieting principles that have worked in the past. Adding 50 - 100 calories worth of olive oil to a diet that has you at 1300 calories a day is NOT going to hurt his progress much, if at all… Even if Chris didn’t say to use it on one of the 9000 vdiet logs.

Hell, I’ve thought about doing the V-diet with a 3rd day mild carbup (maybe hit 2,000 cals on Wed and Sat, carbs would be oatmeal and veggies, im not talking soda or sugar) to see what would happen. I might give that a shot here in about 6 months or so. I think the upregulation from the cals might help AND show a “real” fat loss number since water weight loss wont be so drastic.

31

If you think this is wasting your time,do yourself a favour and stop reading this thread.

If you want,drop by in four weeks and see how I did.You can have a laugh if I failed.

The results of the experiment doesn’t lie in the theoretical discussion before,but after the 28 days.

32

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
IL Cazzo wrote:
Here’s an idea…let the poor fucker try his diet! Mienkia… mean, ok, it’s def. not the V-diet, but some of you guys are like star wars fans fighting over who would win in a fight, Darth Maul or Mace Windu (the answer is Windu).

It’s his expirement…let him win or lose with it.

Personally, i think the cream is an odd choice, but I dont know why everyone is cummin in their panties about the olive oil…if it’s extra virgin, fuckin drink it. Do you think there is some magical effect to adding natural pb? Nope.

I tend to agree with this for the most part. While the whip cream was an odd choice, the olive oil should be just fine. Some people go a little TOO crazy with the whole “Well, Chris Shugart never said to…”. We all know Chris wrote the diet, but he wrote it using sound dieting principles that have worked in the past. Adding 50 - 100 calories worth of olive oil to a diet that has you at 1300 calories a day is NOT going to hurt his progress much, if at all… Even if Chris didn’t say to use it on one of the 9000 vdiet logs.

Hell, I’ve thought about doing the V-diet with a 3rd day mild carbup (maybe hit 2,000 cals on Wed and Sat, carbs would be oatmeal and veggies, im not talking soda or sugar) to see what would happen. I might give that a shot here in about 6 months or so. I think the upregulation from the cals might help AND show a “real” fat loss number since water weight loss wont be so drastic.[/quote]

Good idea!I remember reading a study where people on a no-carb diet ate 700 g carbs in one day while in a depleted state.The result?Filled glycogen stores and a negative fat balance,meaning that they lost fat while eating alot of carbs.This is one of the cornerstones on the Anabolic diet.

33

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Just so everyone is clear on the peanut butter thing: Chris added in the PB recommendation because of Flameout. Instead of taking 21 caps a day of fishoil, its now only 4… And the missing 170 calories were replaced by the PB. It wasnt just some magical recommendation.[/quote]

Does anybody know where this information is? I have looked around but I can’t find it. Chances are its in some irritatingly obvious place that I magically forgot to check. Thanks

34

[quote]Taran wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
Just so everyone is clear on the peanut butter thing: Chris added in the PB recommendation because of Flameout. Instead of taking 21 caps a day of fishoil, its now only 4… And the missing 170 calories were replaced by the PB. It wasnt just some magical recommendation.

Does anybody know where this information is? I have looked around but I can’t find it. Chances are its in some irritatingly obvious place that I magically forgot to check. Thanks[/quote]

Here:

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1295181

"Flameout, the functional fatty acid supplement I now recommend, wasn’t available during my initial experiments.

Instead I recommended taking large amounts of plain fish oil capsules. That’s still a good method, but since Flameout is so potent, you can replace all those fish capsules with only four Flameout capsules per day.

To add in some missing calories and balance out the fats, one serving of natural peanut butter can be added to your nighttime shake. This is what Dan did, and it seemed to work great (tasty too when added to chocolate Metabolic Drive.)"

35

Day Two.

Workout:
Close Grip bench press (CGBP)-90 kgx3x8
Chinups - BWx3x8
Parallel Grip Deadlift- 110 kgx3x8
Heels Elevated Front Squat 70 kgsx3x8

200 g protein powder,10 teaspoons flax,1 tbs seal oil,3 tbsp cream,2 tbsp olive oil,brussel sprouts,spinach.

36

[quote]Wolverin wrote:
Day Two.

Workout:
Close Grip bench press (CGBP)-90 kgx3x8
Chinups - BWx3x8
Parallel Grip Deadlift- 110 kgx3x8
Heels Elevated Front Squat 70 kgsx3x8

200 g protein powder,10 teaspoons flax,1 tbs seal oil,3 tbsp cream,2 tbsp olive oil,brussel sprouts,spinach.

[/quote]

You better kick up the workout inensity man. 3 sets of 8 for every exercise? Where is the low rep work? You want to stimulate your muscles as much as possible on a diet like this.

37

HA!!! OWNED!

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Based on your pic, it’s obvious you know quite a bit about nutrition. So you should feel free to make any changes to the diet you feel are necessary.
[/quote]

38

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Hell, I’ve thought about doing the V-diet with a 3rd day mild carbup (maybe hit 2,000 cals on Wed and Sat, carbs would be oatmeal and veggies, im not talking soda or sugar) to see what would happen.[/quote]

Yep. The one thing Chris added to our knowledge base that was really useful was this: Post-workout carbs are okay (even beneficial) on a low-carb diet.

I’ve experimented with every low-carb diet out there. It was always a hobby of mine and I remember fondly my days on the lowcarb-l list (the days before Lyle McDonald became a celebrity and before Dan Duchaine died. :frowning: ). None of us thought to use post-workout carbs. How did we miss that?

That was Shugart’s HUGE contribution. But there’s nothing magical about the selection of fats or the training program. I did HIIT twice a week, BJJ twice a week, and lifted twice a week while on the V-Diet. I lost the “typical” amount of bodyfat. My results would not have been better if I had done 3 total bodyworks and dropped out my bjj training and conditioning. Again, it’s the low-carbs throughout the day, the micellar caesin, and (most importantly) the ingestion of PWO carbs that matter. The rest are details that can be tweaked by people who understand their bodies.

When I do the V-Diet again, I’ll add a carb-up day every 7 days. Not a huge carb up, since muscle glycogen will never been fully depleted on the V-Diet due to the ingestion of PWO carbs. But around 300-500 grams of carbs spread out over 12 hours sounds about right. Before the carb up, I’ll do a full-body glycogen depletion workout.

Anyhow, some people are qualified to tweak diets. People who are built like the OP really should just do what the fuck they are told.

39

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Wolverin wrote:
Day Two.

Workout:
Close Grip bench press (CGBP)-90 kgx3x8
Chinups - BWx3x8
Parallel Grip Deadlift- 110 kgx3x8
Heels Elevated Front Squat 70 kgsx3x8

200 g protein powder,10 teaspoons flax,1 tbs seal oil,3 tbsp cream,2 tbsp olive oil,brussel sprouts,spinach.

You better kick up the workout inensity man. 3 sets of 8 for every exercise? Where is the low rep work? You want to stimulate your muscles as much as possible on a diet like this.
[/quote]

It’s 8 sets of 3.

40

Well, how’s the experiment going?