A Great Marine

[quote]PGJ wrote:
By the way, Capt Chontosh is a Marine, not a soldier. The media always screws that up also.

Navy = sailor
Air Force = airman
Army = soldier
Marine = Marine[/quote]

I read once:

The Rear Admiral of the Navy is upset when called a sailor, Commanding General of the Army’s face shows disdane when called a soldier, and the Commanding General of the Air Force is offended when called an Airman, but the Commandant of the Marine Corp is proud to be called “A Marine”!

The Title of the thread, “A Great Marine”, he truely is, and aren’t they all?

[quote]Northcott wrote:
aikigreg wrote:
As much as Saddam needed to be deaded, I’m just not sure the Iraqis are going to get freedom, no matter how much we might want them to.

From an outsider’s (Canadian) point of view, I think that part of the problem was the way that the true objective was utterly abandoned by the powers that be to pursue a conflict in another land long before the real fight was done.

Afghanistan was the heart of the Taliban, and the lack of international resources in that nation have it slowly slipping back into a state of chaos. It’s now predicted that unless things change, the Taliban could be welcomed back with open arms within a couple years.

It’s an old truth of history: if people suffer war and chaos long enough, they will embrace anyone who can bring them peace. After a period of chaos, a medieval king could be a right bastard, just so long as he gave good law (re: order). It didn’t even need to be fair, just so long as it kept things quiet.

Things went to Hell on 9/11. In this nation alone, your neighbours, people wept, millions of dollars were raised to help the survivors and families of the deceased. A record amount of blood was donated to the Red Cross in that first week, in the desperate hope that there would be survivors who would need it.

Construction crews headed south, without pay, to help with the rubble (but were turned back at the border). So when the finger was pointed at Afghanistan, we, along with the rest of the USA’s allies, jumped up to offer what meager help we could – because, let’s face it, there’s no denying that the USA is the big kid on the block.

Thing is, the big kid took a swing, then picked up and went to pick a fight with somebody else while his friends were still scrapping the brawl that had been started in his name. Sure, the US still has a presence there, but it’s a tiny fraction of the effort put into Iraq… a nation that posed no clear and present danger.

If Afghanistan slips back into Taliban control, they win. Period. Even if they’re wiped out again, those who hate the West will always remember that focus was lost and with it, a nation. Afghanistan’s actually quite well off in terms of natural resources.

It could be a prosperous and democratic nation. God knows the people there are desperate for it – they crave it like a man craves water when staggering out of the desert. But attention has been shifted elsewhere, and a noble fight that should have been engaged whole-heartedly has been done in half-hearted fashion.

Yes, Saddam needed to be taken down. He was a monster, of that there’s no doubt. But there’s also little doubt that this split in focus has brought a terrible cost in resources, internation reputation, political capital, and most importantly, in lives. There’s still a great deal to pay on that toll.

If either Afghanistan or Iraq slip into chaos now, it’ll be a black eye that’ll haunt an otherwise fine nation (the USA) for generations… at the very least. To say nothing of the lives that have yet to be lost, or the chaos that could come from the Taliban reasserting themselves once again.

It’s an old truism that war is young men paying for the folly of old men. The reason WWII had better coverage is because it was a war with little question as to the sense and justice of it. A focus on Afghanistan would have provided a similar reaction.

[/quote]

A lot of people have that perspective. However, the reality is much different.

From the beginning, The 1990’s Desert Storm never ended. There was no truce. There was only a cease fire. Saddam was supposed to abide by UN sanctions or else face further military action. HE didn’t and continued to fire upon coallition aircraft in violation of sanctions and kicked out UN inspectors.

I’m not going to go through all of Iraqs violations but they were many and very serious. WE HAD THE RIGHT TO ATTACK IRAQ AGAIN. Saddam knew that, he was relying on the pussification of the rest of Europe to protect him. We finally elected a President with a backbone who took care of the situation.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Great point. Nice little experiment. Good news is not controversial. I wonder when everything changed. In the 40’s the media was overwhelmingly positive and good news DID sell, especially good news about the war. Even Hollywood celebrities were supportive of the military back then.

[/quote]

In the 40’s Hollywood celebrities were the military.

Gene Aurty = Air Transport Command

James Stuart = USAAF, reached rank of general thru the reserves, actually hired a personal trainer to gain enough wieght to enter the corps.

Steve McQueen = Marine Corps 1947-1950

Henry Fonda = Enlisted in the Navy, awarded Bronze Star

Lee Marvin = Marine Corps wounded in Saipan

Humphrey Bogart = US Navy, reserves I think.

Across the pond you had stars like Sean Connery, Michael Caine, Anthony Hopkins, Roger Moore and many others in serving their armed forces.

Anyways that’s a far cry from today’s Ton Cruise’s, Rosie O’Donalds, and Dixie Chicks. It just goes along with the overall pussification of society. Heaven forbid anyone have to stand up for their rights, or defend those that can’t stand on their own. And everyone knows resorting to violence is soooo last millinneum.

Live in Peace. Eat more Tofu.

(Peace being defined by one’s own egocentric views and limited understanding of other countries/cultures)

[quote]starsil9 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
By the way, Capt Chontosh is a Marine, not a soldier. The media always screws that up also.

Navy = sailor
Air Force = airman
Army = soldier
Marine = Marine

I read once:

The Rear Admiral of the Navy is upset when called a sailor, Commanding General of the Army’s face shows disdane when called a soldier, and the Commanding General of the Air Force is offended when called an Airman, but the Commandant of the Marine Corp is proud to be called “A Marine”!

The Title of the thread, “A Great Marine”, he truely is, and aren’t they all?
[/quote]

Yes, they are all great.

And that paragraph would be great if it was true. I can say that the Chief of Staff of the AF has no problem being called an Airman - as long as it’s not in a condescending manner.

[quote]Bujo wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Great point. Nice little experiment. Good news is not controversial. I wonder when everything changed. In the 40’s the media was overwhelmingly positive and good news DID sell, especially good news about the war. Even Hollywood celebrities were supportive of the military back then.

In the 40’s Hollywood celebrities were the military.

Gene Aurty = Air Transport Command

James Stuart = USAAF, reached rank of general thru the reserves, actually hired a personal trainer to gain enough wieght to enter the corps.

Steve McQueen = Marine Corps 1947-1950

Henry Fonda = Enlisted in the Navy, awarded Bronze Star

Lee Marvin = Marine Corps wounded in Saipan

Humphrey Bogart = US Navy, reserves I think.

Across the pond you had stars like Sean Connery, Michael Caine, Anthony Hopkins, Roger Moore and many others in serving their armed forces.

Anyways that’s a far cry from today’s Ton Cruise’s, Rosie O’Donalds, and Dixie Chicks. It just goes along with the overall pussification of society. Heaven forbid anyone have to stand up for their rights, or defend those that can’t stand on their own. And everyone knows resorting to violence is soooo last millinneum.

Live in Peace. Eat more Tofu.

(Peace being defined by one’s own egocentric views and limited understanding of other countries/cultures)[/quote]

Don’t forget the athletes that served in the middle of their careers like Ted Williams who was a fighter pilot.

Williams served as a United States Marine Corps pilot during World War II and the Korean War. During World War II he served as a flight instructor at Naval Air Station Pensacola teaching young pilots to fly the F4U Corsair. He finished the war in Hawaii and was released from active duty in January of 1946; however he did remain in the reserves[1].

In 1952, at the age of 34, he was recalled to active duty for service in the Korean War. After getting checked out on the new F9F Panther at Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point, North Carolina, he was assigned to VMF-311, Marine Aircraft Group 33 (MAG-33) in Korea[2].

On February 16, 1953, Williams was part of a 35 plane strike package against a tank and infantry training school just south of Pyongyang, North Korea. During the mission a piece of flak knocked out his hydraulics and electrical systems causing Williams to have to crash land his fighter jet. After scrambling out of the jet he made the comment, “I ran faster than Mickey Mantle.” [citation needed] For bringing the plane back he was also awarded the Air Medal.

Williams eventually flew 38 combat missions before being pulled from flight status in June of 1953 after an old ear infection acted up[3]… During the war he also served in the same unit as John Glenn. While these absences, which took almost five years out of the heart of a great career, significantly limited his career totals, he never complained about the time devoted to military service.

FYI,Saddam was shooting at US Aircraft on Northern and Southern Watch Missions since the end of GW1.

Somebody said it better than most about troops and the culture/media, Kipling:

Tommy
I went into a public-‘ouse to get a pint o’beer,
The publican ‘e up an’ sez, “We serve no red-coats here.”
The girls be’ind the bar they laughed an’ giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an’ to myself sez I:

O it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, go away”;
But it’s Thank you, Mister Atkins,'' when the band begins to play, The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play, O it's Thank you, Mr. Atkins,‘’ when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn’t none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-‘alls,
But when it comes to fightin’, Lord! they’ll shove me in the stalls!

For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, wait outside”;
But it’s “Special train for Atkins” when the trooper’s on the tide,
The troopship’s on the tide, my boys, the troopship’s on the tide,
O it’s “Special train for Atkins” when the trooper’s on the tide.

Yes, makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an’ they’re starvation cheap;
An’ hustlin’ drunken soldiers when they’re goin’ large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin’ in full kit.

Then it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy how’s yer soul?”
But it’s “Thin red line of 'eroes” when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it’s “Thin red line of 'eroes” when the drums begin to roll.

We aren’t no thin red ‘eroes, nor we aren’t no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An’ if sometimes our conduck isn’t all your fancy paints:
Why, single men in barricks don’t grow into plaster saints;

While it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, fall be’ind,”
But it’s “Please to walk in front, sir,” when there’s trouble in the wind,
There’s trouble in the wind, my boys, there’s trouble in the wind,
O it’s “Please to walk in front, sir,” when there’s trouble in the wind.

You talk o’ better food for us, an’ schools, an’ fires an’ all:
We’ll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don’t mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow’s Uniform is not the soldier-man’s disgrace.

For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Chuck him out, the brute!”
But it’s “Saviour of 'is country,” when the guns begin to shoot;
An’ it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ anything you please;
But Tommy ain’t a bloomin’ fool - you bet that Tommy sees!

“…But it’s “Saviour of 'is country,” when the guns begin to shoot…”

for a while at least.

[quote]JokerFMJ wrote:
starsil9 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
By the way, Capt Chontosh is a Marine, not a soldier. The media always screws that up also.

Navy = sailor
Air Force = airman
Army = soldier
Marine = Marine

I read once:

The Rear Admiral of the Navy is upset when called a sailor, Commanding General of the Army’s face shows disdane when called a soldier, and the Commanding General of the Air Force is offended when called an Airman, but the Commandant of the Marine Corp is proud to be called “A Marine”!

The Title of the thread, “A Great Marine”, he truely is, and aren’t they all?

Yes, they are all great.

And that paragraph would be great if it was true. I can say that the Chief of Staff of the AF has no problem being called an Airman - as long as it’s not in a condescending manner.[/quote]

That’s good to know!! He should be proud to be called an Airman!!

Just something I read once, doesn’t mean it’s true. Good to know it’s not!

Thanks!!!


(when it comes to the souls of fighting men)…Kipling Rules!

Very very nice post. I don’t watch the news or read papers much, or actually have that much of a social life, but any time anyone mentions the war they are complaining. I’ve wanted to join the military since I was young and its really nice to hear stories about true heroes instead of everyone trying to knock them down a peg.

Theres something about running into a group of enemy and killing scores of them until you run out of ammo, then eliminating more with what you have access to, that really makes me wish I was over there. Nice to read about the heroes of today :smiley:

Impressive! Personal valor is not dead at all in this age of technological warfare! 800 years ago, bards would be writing songs about this sort of courage.

Can’t leave the Navy out of this.

http://www.navy.mil/moh/mpmurphy/pg.html">http://www.navy.mil/moh/mpmurphy/pg.html

Not sure if that will work as I’ve never tried to post links here. If it doesn’t, do a search for Lt Michael P Murphy. He was awarded the CMH for his actions.

“The only easy day was yesterday!”

Yes, in a lot of ways it is sad. But at the same time it gives me a quiet pride that we still have young men of this ilk. Men who sacrifice their time, freedom, blood, and even their lives, to stand in harms way, and allow the rest of us to pursue happiness. Its a hell of a good feeling knowing we still raise men like that!!

“The only easy day was yesterday!”

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Yes, these guys are heroes. Not Lebron James. Not Michael Jordan. Not Roger Clemens. Not Arnold. Not Randy Moss. Not screen stars or rappers or drug addicts gone straight or dried up alcoholics or famous writers or extreme sports enthusiasts or intellectual college professors or corporate presidents or MMA studs or “Survivor” survivors or war protestors or big wave surfers.

These guys.

And anybody who disagrees and would rather discuss the politics of unjust war, unilateral incursions, et al. can go fuck themselves with a porcupine. [/quote]

Exactly.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Yes, these guys are heroes. Not Lebron James. Not Michael Jordan. Not Roger Clemens. Not Arnold. Not Randy Moss. Not screen stars or rappers or drug addicts gone straight or dried up alcoholics or famous writers or extreme sports enthusiasts or intellectual college professors or corporate presidents or MMA studs or “Survivor” survivors or war protestors or big wave surfers.

These guys.

And anybody who disagrees and would rather discuss the politics of unjust war, unilateral incursions, et al. can go fuck themselves with a porcupine. [/quote]

Oh, so unless you have served in the military, you should have no say in what is right or wrong for this country to do?

I in no way contest the fact that those serving in our military are heroes. That doesnt mean I dont completely disagree with the things that our government is calling upon them to do over there.