A Calorie is a Calorie

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]waldo21212 wrote:
If sources don’t matter than have someone eat a diet consisting only of: protein from collagen, carbs from high fructose corn syrup, and fat from partially hydrogonated oils - cuz you know it’s only about the macros right?[/quote]

Extreme examples being used to justify a position on the opposite extreme end of the spectrum. No one is debating that the body handles SUGARS differently than STARCHES and that various proteins have different levels of bioavailability.

[quote]ADvanced TS wrote:

However the hormonal effects of carbs on those with high insulin sensitivity, especially the obese, is well referenced and explained.
[/quote]

The obese are actually less insulin sensitive. Lean people are more likely to put on fat than fat people for this reason.

[quote]honkie wrote:
No one eats calories; calories are just a measurement (as is an inch) and have no substance. A calorie is a unit of heat equal to the amount of heat required to raise the temperature of one kilogram of water by one degree at one atmosphere pressure (does this sound like a human body?).

The calorie theory is based on the heat engine analogy also known as thermodynamics by engineers. The human body is not a heat engine, as they would like you to believe. The human body is more like a complex chemical factory than it is a heat engine.

Food is converted in to complex substances and structures and not as a machine designed for heat production, which the measurement of a calorie is.

A scientist named Adolph Fick proved in 1893 that living cells cannot be heat engines. Biological systems like humans are isothermal (equal temperature) systems. Cells cannot act as heat engines, for they have no means of permitting heat to flow from a warmer to a cooler body.

Nobel Prize-winner, Hans Krebs, mentioned in his book about another Nobel Prize-winner, Otto Warburg, M.D., Ph.D. �??�??�??�?�¢??Fick made it clear in 1893 that living cells cannot be heat engines�??�??�??�?�¢?�??�??�??�?�¦�??�??�??�?�¢??

Herman Taller, M.D, author of Calories Don�??�??�??�?�¢??t Count stated, �??�??�??�?�¢??One could assert with absolute certainty that the calorie theory has no scientific basis whatsoever�??�??�??�?�¢??

In 2003, Harvard University study found people on a low carbohydrate diet could eat 25,000 more calories than those on a high carbohydrate diet over a 12-week period and they gained no additional weight. If the calorie theory was correct then the low carbohydrate group should have gained a little over 7lbs of fat.

In another study conducted at Harvard University, some participants ate only carbohydrates, while other participants ate twice as many calories of only protein. Although the protein eaters ate twice as many calories as the carbohydrates eaters, they didn’t gain any weight, whereas the carbohydrates eaters gained weight despite eating fewer calories.

In yet another semi-related study shows that a low-carb diet is more successful than a low-fat diet. In the two-year study, 322 moderately obese people were given one of three diets: a low-fat, calorie-restricted diet; a Mediterranean calorie-restricted diet; or a low-carbohydrate diet with the fewest carbohydrates, highest fat, protein, and dietary cholesterol. The low-carb dieters had no caloric restrictions. At the end of the study the low-fat, calorie-restricted dieters lost 6.5 lbs, the Mediterranean dieters lost 10 lbs, and the low-carb dieters lost 10.3 lbs. Not only that, but dieters on the low-fat, calorie-restricted diet cholesterol levels dropped 12 percent. The low-carb dieters cholesterol dropped 20 percent.

Even though studies coupled with real life experience have repeatedly disproven the calorie theory, so-called �??�??�??�?�¢??experts�??�??�??�?�¢?? haven�??�??�??�?�¢??t caught up.

�??�??�??�?�¢??It does not matter how smart you are, who made the guess, or what his name is �??�??�??�?�¢?? if it disagrees with real-life results, it is wrong. That is all there is to It.�??�??�??�?�¢?? �??�??�??�?�¢?? Richard Feynman, Nobel Prize-winning physicist.[/quote]

Oh god, you again? Still stumped by our discussion of GMO? I noticed you never got back to me on my previous questions.

So chemical factories don’t abide by the laws of thermodynamics? News to me.

HEAT is simply a form of ENERGY. A calorie is a measure of heat and therefore a measure of energy. Energy entering a system will be equal to the energy leaving a system. The OUTPUT need not be entirely in the form of energy used for activity, as no system is perfect efficient and all systems experience entropy to some degree. The human body is no different.

Your studies are highly suspect and I suggest you link them. I’m doubting you will though because you know there is something wrong with the information you are presenting.

I’ll go through them individually.

  1. Define “low carbohydrate”. Of course people eating a diet consisting predominantly of protein with minimal fat or carbohydrates could be considered “low carbohydrate”, and a diet of such sort plays some neat thermodynamic tricks that conspiracists like yourself are likely to think are magic.

Assuming an average intake of 2,000 kcal/day, 70% of which is protein, you come up with 1,400 calories per day from protein. Protein has a TEF of roughly 25%, meaning that each day you would burn 350 calories more simply from the higher protein intake. Spread over 12 weeks, this equates to just under 30,000 kcal. Nice try.

  1. The design is questionable. Post an abstract.

  2. Once again, design is questionable since the low carb dieters were allowed to eat ad libitum and low carb diets are easy to eat less on due to increased satiety. If you notice, the low carb diet also had the highest protein of the three. The low fat dieters still lost a comparatively significant amount of weight (6.5 lbs or 60%), and the remainder can be fairly explained through the TEF that occurs over the course of a TWO YEAR study and the inherent lack of control over test subjects during such a long-term study. Of course, this study does nothing to support any sort of superiority in regards to low carbohydrate diets since the test subjects lost an average of 10 lbs over the course of TWO YEARS, or a calorie restriction of about 50 calories per day. Nevermind the fact that if the researchers failed to adjust for loses in body water, the entire weight lost by the low-cho group could be explained simply by fluid and glycogen loss, a significant amount of weight especially in the moderately obese. If such is the case, then it is arguable that the low-cho group actually GAINED weight during this time period.

Go back to trying to figure out who killed JFK. Science isn’t your thing.[/quote]

You’re right, I meant low insulin sensitvity. Those who do not tolerate carbs well.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]waldo21212 wrote:
If sources don’t matter than have someone eat a diet consisting only of: protein from collagen, carbs from high fructose corn syrup, and fat from partially hydrogonated oils - cuz you know it’s only about the macros right?[/quote]

Extreme examples being used to justify a position on the opposite extreme end of the spectrum. No one is debating that the body handles SUGARS differently than STARCHES and that various proteins have different levels of bioavailability.

[quote]ADvanced TS wrote:

However the hormonal effects of carbs on those with high insulin sensitivity, especially the obese, is well referenced and explained.
[/quote]

The obese are actually less insulin sensitive. Lean people are more likely to put on fat than fat people for this reason.

[quote]honkie wrote:
No one eats calories; calories are just a measurement (as is an inch) and have no substance. A calorie is a unit of heat equal to the amount of heat required to raise the temperature of one kilogram of water by one degree at one atmosphere pressure (does this sound like a human body?).

The calorie theory is based on the heat engine analogy also known as thermodynamics by engineers. The human body is not a heat engine, as they would like you to believe. The human body is more like a complex chemical factory than it is a heat engine.

Food is converted in to complex substances and structures and not as a machine designed for heat production, which the measurement of a calorie is.

A scientist named Adolph Fick proved in 1893 that living cells cannot be heat engines. Biological systems like humans are isothermal (equal temperature) systems. Cells cannot act as heat engines, for they have no means of permitting heat to flow from a warmer to a cooler body.

Nobel Prize-winner, Hans Krebs, mentioned in his book about another Nobel Prize-winner, Otto Warburg, M.D., Ph.D. �??�??�??�??�?�¢??Fick made it clear in 1893 that living cells cannot be heat engines�??�??�??�??�?�¢?�??�??�??�??�?�¦�??�??�??�??�?�¢??

Herman Taller, M.D, author of Calories Don�??�??�??�??�?�¢??t Count stated, �??�??�??�??�?�¢??One could assert with absolute certainty that the calorie theory has no scientific basis whatsoever�??�??�??�??�?�¢??

In 2003, Harvard University study found people on a low carbohydrate diet could eat 25,000 more calories than those on a high carbohydrate diet over a 12-week period and they gained no additional weight. If the calorie theory was correct then the low carbohydrate group should have gained a little over 7lbs of fat.

In another study conducted at Harvard University, some participants ate only carbohydrates, while other participants ate twice as many calories of only protein. Although the protein eaters ate twice as many calories as the carbohydrates eaters, they didn’t gain any weight, whereas the carbohydrates eaters gained weight despite eating fewer calories.

In yet another semi-related study shows that a low-carb diet is more successful than a low-fat diet. In the two-year study, 322 moderately obese people were given one of three diets: a low-fat, calorie-restricted diet; a Mediterranean calorie-restricted diet; or a low-carbohydrate diet with the fewest carbohydrates, highest fat, protein, and dietary cholesterol. The low-carb dieters had no caloric restrictions. At the end of the study the low-fat, calorie-restricted dieters lost 6.5 lbs, the Mediterranean dieters lost 10 lbs, and the low-carb dieters lost 10.3 lbs. Not only that, but dieters on the low-fat, calorie-restricted diet cholesterol levels dropped 12 percent. The low-carb dieters cholesterol dropped 20 percent.

Even though studies coupled with real life experience have repeatedly disproven the calorie theory, so-called �??�??�??�??�?�¢??experts�??�??�??�??�?�¢?? haven�??�??�??�??�?�¢??t caught up.

�??�??�??�??�?�¢??It does not matter how smart you are, who made the guess, or what his name is �??�??�??�??�?�¢?? if it disagrees with real-life results, it is wrong. That is all there is to It.�??�??�??�??�?�¢?? �??�??�??�??�?�¢?? Richard Feynman, Nobel Prize-winning physicist.[/quote]

Oh god, you again? Still stumped by our discussion of GMO? I noticed you never got back to me on my previous questions.

So chemical factories don’t abide by the laws of thermodynamics? News to me.

HEAT is simply a form of ENERGY. A calorie is a measure of heat and therefore a measure of energy. Energy entering a system will be equal to the energy leaving a system. The OUTPUT need not be entirely in the form of energy used for activity, as no system is perfect efficient and all systems experience entropy to some degree. The human body is no different.

Your studies are highly suspect and I suggest you link them. I’m doubting you will though because you know there is something wrong with the information you are presenting.

I’ll go through them individually.

  1. Define “low carbohydrate”. Of course people eating a diet consisting predominantly of protein with minimal fat or carbohydrates could be considered “low carbohydrate”, and a diet of such sort plays some neat thermodynamic tricks that conspiracists like yourself are likely to think are magic.

Assuming an average intake of 2,000 kcal/day, 70% of which is protein, you come up with 1,400 calories per day from protein. Protein has a TEF of roughly 25%, meaning that each day you would burn 350 calories more simply from the higher protein intake. Spread over 12 weeks, this equates to just under 30,000 kcal. Nice try.

  1. The design is questionable. Post an abstract.

  2. Once again, design is questionable since the low carb dieters were allowed to eat ad libitum and low carb diets are easy to eat less on due to increased satiety. If you notice, the low carb diet also had the highest protein of the three. The low fat dieters still lost a comparatively significant amount of weight (6.5 lbs or 60%), and the remainder can be fairly explained through the TEF that occurs over the course of a TWO YEAR study and the inherent lack of control over test subjects during such a long-term study. Of course, this study does nothing to support any sort of superiority in regards to low carbohydrate diets since the test subjects lost an average of 10 lbs over the course of TWO YEARS, or a calorie restriction of about 50 calories per day. Nevermind the fact that if the researchers failed to adjust for loses in body water, the entire weight lost by the low-cho group could be explained simply by fluid and glycogen loss, a significant amount of weight especially in the moderately obese. If such is the case, then it is arguable that the low-cho group actually GAINED weight during this time period.

Go back to trying to figure out who killed JFK. Science isn’t your thing.[/quote]

Science is my field actually. I have a PhD so go back to reading womans day for your nutrition information because anything above that is beyond your comprehension.

You can find all the studies in full if you spend 15 sec in google - do your own homework you lazy ass prick.

You mouth off on here without an ounce of understanding in science. Why not post a pic how lean you are and we can compare. You probably couldn’t even deadlift your own bodyweight and you are here dishing out advice - another typical internet guru. How many Olympic athletes have you trained, how many professional athletes have you worked with, how many medical patients have you cured? Get out from behind your computer and get some real world experience… you probably haven’t even been out of the US let alone your home state.

[quote]honkie wrote:

Science is my field actually. I have a PhD so go back to reading womans day for your nutrition information because anything above that is beyond your comprehension.

You can find all the studies in full if you spend 15 sec in google - do your own homework you lazy ass prick.

You mouth off on here without an ounce of understanding in science. Why not post a pic how lean you are and we can compare. You probably couldn’t even deadlift your own bodyweight and you are here dishing out advice - another typical internet guru. How many Olympic athletes have you trained, how many professional athletes have you worked with, how many medical patients have you cured? Get out from behind your computer and get some real world experience… you probably haven’t even been out of the US let alone your home state.

[/quote]

What is your degree in?

Why should I try to dig up some studies when you can’t be bothered to post the titles or even link to the abstracts. If it takes 15 seconds in google, you could have linked to them in about the same amount of time it took you to tell me to do it myself. I’m not the one making assertions based on studies. YOU provide the evidence, that is unless you know for a fact your claims are based on faulty evidence.

Sort of funny that you attack my intelligence, despite the fact that it took me roughly 3 minutes to dismantle and discredit your ENTIRE argument. What does that make you? If I have no understanding of science, then why am I able to make you look like a stuttering idiot in every thread in which we converse. If you know so much, why haven’t you responded to my questions regarding GMO in the other threads?

My own accreditation is irrelevant. I am presenting facts in response to your speculation and you are unable to address my response on a factual basis, so instead you choose to attack me personally.

As a matter of fact, I have trained with some of the strongest powerlifters in the world, including no less than 6 1,000 lb squatters, and have spotted 600 lb raw benches. I have trained successful walk ons to a D1 football program, and have helped an obese young man with severe mental handicaps lose upwards of 80 lbs in a matter of WEEKS while having no direct intervention into his eating. I am on track to record 3x bw raw squats and deadlifts in my next competition this year, as well as closing in on a 2x bw raw bench in the next couple of months.

Of course, none of this is relevant because you are posting personal attacks rather than responding to my arguments because you don’t have a leg to stand on.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]honkie wrote:

Science is my field actually. I have a PhD so go back to reading womans day for your nutrition information because anything above that is beyond your comprehension.

You can find all the studies in full if you spend 15 sec in google - do your own homework you lazy ass prick.

You mouth off on here without an ounce of understanding in science. Why not post a pic how lean you are and we can compare. You probably couldn’t even deadlift your own bodyweight and you are here dishing out advice - another typical internet guru. How many Olympic athletes have you trained, how many professional athletes have you worked with, how many medical patients have you cured? Get out from behind your computer and get some real world experience… you probably haven’t even been out of the US let alone your home state.

[/quote]

What is your degree in?

Why should I try to dig up some studies when you can’t be bothered to post the titles or even link to the abstracts. If it takes 15 seconds in google, you could have linked to them in about the same amount of time it took you to tell me to do it myself. I’m not the one making assertions based on studies. YOU provide the evidence, that is unless you know for a fact your claims are based on faulty evidence.

Sort of funny that you attack my intelligence, despite the fact that it took me roughly 3 minutes to dismantle and discredit your ENTIRE argument. What does that make you? If I have no understanding of science, then why am I able to make you look like a stuttering idiot in every thread in which we converse. If you know so much, why haven’t you responded to my questions regarding GMO in the other threads?

My own accreditation is irrelevant. I am presenting facts in response to your speculation and you are unable to address my response on a factual basis, so instead you choose to attack me personally.

As a matter of fact, I have trained with some of the strongest powerlifters in the world, including no less than 6 1,000 lb squatters, and have spotted 600 lb raw benches. I have trained successful walk ons to a D1 football program, and have helped an obese young man with severe mental handicaps lose upwards of 80 lbs in a matter of WEEKS while having no direct intervention into his eating. I am on track to record 3x bw raw squats and deadlifts in my next competition this year, as well as closing in on a 2x bw raw bench in the next couple of months.

Of course, none of this is relevant because you are posting personal attacks rather than responding to my arguments because you don’t have a leg to stand on.[/quote]

Just in case you miss my post on the other topic…

You really are stupid.

So HFCS is corn syrup with fructose added ? - you are a moron. Do at least 30 seconds of research before posting such a stupid statement.

HFCS has had a part of it’s glucose converted to fructose through an enzymatic process.

How is HFCS GMO? - again brilliant display of your stupidity. Most corn grown in the US is GMO.

[quote]honkie wrote:

You can find all the studies in full if you spend 15 sec in google - do your own homework you lazy ass prick.

[/quote]

Just did a cursory google search. What came up is:

evo-performance.com/articles/calorie.htm

Which leads me to believe you are either a scammer taking money from people with your nonsense, or more likely: a keyboard pounding retard who lacks the ability to think for yourself simply regurgitating something you read elsewhere.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[ have helped an obese young man with severe mental handicaps lose upwards of 80 lbs in a matter of WEEKS while having no direct intervention into his eating[/quote]

Weeks? 2 or 60???

[quote]honkie wrote:

Just in case you miss my post on the other topic…

You really are stupid.

So HFCS is corn syrup with fructose added ? - you are a moron. Do at least 30 seconds of research before posting such a stupid statement.

HFCS has had a part of it’s glucose converted to fructose through an enzymatic process.

How is HFCS GMO? - again brilliant display of your stupidity. Most corn grown in the US is GMO.[/quote]

I addressed this. HFCS is nearly identical chemically to sucrose. Your only response to this is that it is GMO. When asked how exactly the GMO ingredients in HFCS were harmful, you failed to respond. This is because YOU DO NOT KNOW.

Now, what exactly does my travel experience have to do with the fact that you lack a basic understanding of human physiology and nutrition?

[quote]honkie wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[ have helped an obese young man with severe mental handicaps lose upwards of 80 lbs in a matter of WEEKS while having no direct intervention into his eating[/quote]

Weeks? 2 or 60???
[/quote]

12

Now that I’ve answered one of your questions, please post those abstracts and answer my question re: GMO corn being harmful.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]honkie wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[ have helped an obese young man with severe mental handicaps lose upwards of 80 lbs in a matter of WEEKS while having no direct intervention into his eating[/quote]

Weeks? 2 or 60???
[/quote]

12

Now that I’ve answered one of your questions, please post those abstracts and answer my question re: GMO corn being harmful.[/quote]

http://www.springerlink.com/content/02648wu132m07804/

Do another 30 seconds of research and you can come up with thousands…

So you still believe that HFSC is corn syrup with fructose added?

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

Now that I’ve answered one of your questions, please post those abstracts and answer my question re: GMO corn being harmful.[/quote]

But it’s GENETICALLY MODIFIED. Genetics reminds me of cloning or something, and ugh, cloning is bad.

[quote]honkie wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]honkie wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[ have helped an obese young man with severe mental handicaps lose upwards of 80 lbs in a matter of WEEKS while having no direct intervention into his eating[/quote]

Weeks? 2 or 60???
[/quote]

12

Now that I’ve answered one of your questions, please post those abstracts and answer my question re: GMO corn being harmful.[/quote]

http://www.springerlink.com/content/02648wu132m07804/

Do another 30 seconds of research and you can come up with thousands…

So you still believe that HFSC is corn syrup with fructose added?[/quote]

Rat studies? Specific GMO products?

Now, tell me HOW the GMO corn in HFCS imparts negative health consequences.

http://www.biolsci.org/v05p0706.pdf

http://www.prorev.com/genetic.htm

Some basic information even someone as stupid as you can understand

More rats?

From your second article:

They refuse to use humans in studies - rats are accepted in millions of studies related to human nutrition but NOT IN THIS CASE ACCORDING TO YOU!

I would advise you to get the book “Genetic Roulette” it has all the studies laid out in there including some human studies.

[quote]honkie wrote:
They refuse to use humans in studies - rats are accepted in millions of studies related to human nutrition but NOT IN THIS CASE ACCORDING TO YOU!
[/quote]

Results in rats are not accepted as conclusive in regards to humans.

You would know this if you weren’t googling your ass off right now trying to find a leg to stand on.

The second article even admits that there is a large possibility that adverse consequences are a result of the presence of pesticides and herbicides along with the GMO corn.

Of course, it is also problematic trying to make an inference regarding the (minimal, at best) presence of an ingredient from a study in which the entire diet consisted of this singular ingredient. In order for humans to consume an amount of GMO corn that is equivalent to what is consumed by rats being fed a diet consisting entirely of GMO corn, humans would have to consume an UNREAL amount of corn syrup. No one is suggesting that his level of consumption is healthy. Would you also mind explaining to me how genetic material exists in a product that consists solely of two monosaccharides?

Now, do you want to get back to the topic at hand and explain to me how a study authored by a professor who plainly stated “the findings of this study are firmly in line with the laws of thermodynamics” disproves the applicability of the laws of thermodynamics to the human body?

Post abstracts to those three studies, otherwise I’m going to assume you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about and just copied and pasted it from the first site you got on google.

[quote]
Post abstracts to those three studies, otherwise I’m going to assume you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about and just copied and pasted it from the first site you got on google.[/quote]

You are an idiot and everyone here knows it. How stupid can one be? Your statements of past has demonstrated this.

The number 1 reason I would steer clear of fast food is because of trans fat. I rather dislike brain damage…

As far as genetically modified food goes… some fuel to the flames!!

  1. Smith, J.M. Bt-maize (corn) during pollination, may trigger disease in people living near the cornfield (Press release, Feb 2004).

  2. Ho, M. GM ban long overdue, dozens ill & five deaths in the Philippines (ISIS press release, Jun 2, 2006).

  3. Mortality in sheep flocks after grazing on Bt cotton fields-Warangal district (Andhra Pradesh report of the preliminary assessment, Apr 2006).

  4. Seralini, G., Cellier, D., & Spiroux de Vendomois, J. New analysis of a rat feeding study with a genetically modified maize reveals signs of hepatorenal toxicity. J. archives of Env. Contam. and Toxicology (Springer, New York).

  5. Strodthoff, H. & Then, C. Is GM maize responsible for deaths of cows in Hesse? Greenpeace e.V. 22745 (Greenpeace, Hamburg, Germany, Dec 2003).

  6. Malatesta, M. et al. Ultrastructural morphometrical and immunocytochemical analyses of hepatocyte nuclei from mice fed on genetically modified soybean. Cell Struct. Funct. 27 (2002): 173-180.

  7. Vecchio, L. et al. Ultrastructural analysis of testes from mice fed on genetically modified soybean. Eur. J. of Histochem. 48, no. 4 (Oct-Dec 2004):449-454.

  8. Oliveri et al. Temporary depression of transcription in mouse pre-implantion embryos from mice fed on genetically modified soybean. (48th Symposium of the Society for Histochemistry, Lake Maggiore, Italy, Sept 7-10, 2006).

  9. Ermakova, I. Genetically modified soy leads to the decrease of weight and high mortality of rat pups of the first generation. Preliminary studies. Ecosinform 1 (2006): 4-9.

You can find the article I stole these sources from at: Genetically Modified (GM) Foods Are Unhealthy And Unsafe | Centre For Food Safety

Edit: I didn’t read these and have no idea of their validity or their relevance.