92 Year Old Woman Gunned Down

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]Professor X wrote:
luburic wrote:
Professor X wrote:
doogie wrote:
Edders wrote:

The cops have no excuse. You just don’t make mistakes like that.

It wasn’t a mistake. They had the right house where drugs were sold from earlier in the day.

I am going to take the 92 year old woman’s side here because it is stated that they they basically said, “We’re police!!” and then kicked her door down while not in uniform. This is the same issue I have with cops in those new unmarked cars handing out speeding tickets. Why should someone believe (especially in certain neighborhoods where the risk of house invasion is very real) that a cop out of uniform is really a cop?

They kicked her door down. How many of you would simply assume it was cops who were breaking into your house no matter what they said if there were no uniforms?

I am not taking any side.
I think its a tragic where both sides had little choice.

I am just now reading this. Both sides had little choice? One side had the HUGE choice of accepting a forced statement from an UNRELIABLE SOURCE that LIED about where he got drugs from. One side then made the HUGE choice to use this info to rush into the home of an old woman who then protected herself from invasion after her door was forced open. How the hell did both sides have little choice?[/quote]

You are really oversimplyfiying things here profesor. You say the police made all these horrible decisions. Let’s not forget they are trying to get a CRIMINAL, they are trying to help us here. The old lady had a huge choice as well. She could have chosen to not start shooting a godamn gun at people who havent done her a bit of harm yet.

62

[quote]Fullback33 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
luburic wrote:
Professor X wrote:
doogie wrote:
Edders wrote:

The cops have no excuse. You just don’t make mistakes like that.

It wasn’t a mistake. They had the right house where drugs were sold from earlier in the day.

I am going to take the 92 year old woman’s side here because it is stated that they they basically said, “We’re police!!” and then kicked her door down while not in uniform. This is the same issue I have with cops in those new unmarked cars handing out speeding tickets. Why should someone believe (especially in certain neighborhoods where the risk of house invasion is very real) that a cop out of uniform is really a cop?

They kicked her door down. How many of you would simply assume it was cops who were breaking into your house no matter what they said if there were no uniforms?

I am not taking any side.
I think its a tragic where both sides had little choice.

I am just now reading this. Both sides had little choice? One side had the HUGE choice of accepting a forced statement from an UNRELIABLE SOURCE that LIED about where he got drugs from. One side then made the HUGE choice to use this info to rush into the home of an old woman who then protected herself from invasion after her door was forced open. How the hell did both sides have little choice?

You are really oversimplyfiying things here profesor. You say the police made all these horrible decisions. Let’s not forget they are trying to get a CRIMINAL, they are trying to help us here. The old lady had a huge choice as well. She could have chosen to not start shooting a godamn gun at people who havent done her a bit of harm yet.[/quote]

How do you call violently knocking my door down doing me no harm? I don’t care who you are, I am no criminal (at least for any real crimes) so if my door comes flying off the hinges then you’re getting a .308 in your chest. Besides, criminalizing drugs has made us all LESS safe, so these poor police officers aren’t making anyone any safer.

mike

63

[quote]Fullback33 wrote:
since when is it Okay so start blasting away at people for busting through your door? [/quote]

Is that a serious question? Give me one good reason a person might have for busting your door down. Just one.[quote]

I am sure I would be surprised too, but I don’t think I would start shooting before I knew what was going on. [/quote]

Then when someone decides it’s worth busting your door down then you are going to die.

Police may not make a lot of money, but they make enough to stay out of poverty lest they can’t stop breeding. Besides, being a cop has it’s own benefits. I doubt many join for the money. Maybe for the excitement of busting down doors. Though I am sure they at least hope it’s the right door.

That said, if cops deserve the benefit of the doubt why don’t other gov’t workers such as politicians?

mike

64

[quote]MaloVerde wrote:

I don’t care if you think it’s total bullshit. Are you implying that the Police are criminally negligent here? They had a lawful, court issued “No Knock” warrant. To lay 100% of the responsibility on the Police is short sighted and naive.[/quote]

In a big freaking hurry to get their drug bust cops sometimes try to make a case when there is no case. Or in this case they simply got it wrong.

Criminally negligent? Sure, maybe I don’t know enough about the case to judge.

But, they sure killed a 92 year old lady who had nothing to do with drugs. And that my nearsighted friend is WRONG. And it was initiated by the Police. The gun toting granny did not go looking for them, they busted into her house with guns drawn.

If that were my grandmother I would sue each of the cops individually and the City that employs them.

And each cop involved should be fired!

This is still America and it’s not yet spelled with a K.

65

[quote]Fullback33 wrote:
since when is it Okay so start blasting away at people for busting through your door?

[/quote]

You stupid idiot. Tell me how brave you are when you’re 92 freaking years old.

She was scared out of her mind no doubt and reached for the only protection she thought she had.

Wise up.

66

[quote]Fullback33 wrote:
People, as usual, are looking way too far into this. It looks to me like we have at least one cop himself on here who thinks these guys didn’t do anything wrong. Thats not a bad start. It also seems like a “no-knock” warrant explains all of this. Also, since when is it Okay so start blasting away at people for busting through your door? I am sure I would be surprised too, but I don’t think I would start shooting before I knew what was going on. I can’t just shoot people bcause I think they might hurt me. Police generally work very hard to protect us for not a whole lot of money. I give them the benefit of the doubt most of the time.[/quote]

Damn, you are one complete dumbass. You have the RIGHT to protect your own home from invasion. Or at least, we are supposed to. That means, yes, if people come running into your house for no damn reason, breaking down your door in the process, you have every right to take out the perceived threat.

You sound like you have lived one very sheltered existence. I would love to see how inviting you are to people breaking down your door if you actually lived in a neighborhood where a break-in was an everyday threat.

Then again, judging by this post, you would be dumb enough to invite a few burglars in for tea before they robbed your shit and killed you.

It took this incident for that state to review their own “no knock” policy. That means apparently, there are other dumbasses like you who allowed an action that stupid to become law in the first place.

67

[quote]Fullback33 wrote:
People, as usual, are looking way too far into this. It looks to me like we have at least one cop himself on here who thinks these guys didn’t do anything wrong. Thats not a bad start. It also seems like a “no-knock” warrant explains all of this. Also, since when is it Okay so start blasting away at people for busting through your door? I am sure I would be surprised too, but I don’t think I would start shooting before I knew what was going on. I can’t just shoot people bcause I think they might hurt me. Police generally work very hard to protect us for not a whole lot of money. I give them the benefit of the doubt most of the time.[/quote]

How do you drive to work in the morning?

Can you walk and chew gum at the same time?

Dude. Seriously. That comment was damn ignorant.

What do you think YOU would do if these two big dudes broke down your door and rushed into your house with weapons drawn at YOU? In a drug infested neighborhood? Wearing plain clothes? Like hoodies and ripped jeans?

68

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Fullback33 wrote:
People, as usual, are looking way too far into this. It looks to me like we have at least one cop himself on here who thinks these guys didn’t do anything wrong. Thats not a bad start. It also seems like a “no-knock” warrant explains all of this. Also, since when is it Okay so start blasting away at people for busting through your door? I am sure I would be surprised too, but I don’t think I would start shooting before I knew what was going on. I can’t just shoot people bcause I think they might hurt me. Police generally work very hard to protect us for not a whole lot of money. I give them the benefit of the doubt most of the time.

Damn, you are one complete dumbass. You have the RIGHT to protect your own home from invasion. Or at least, we are supposed to. That means, yes, if people come running into your house for no damn reason, breaking down your door in the process, you have every right to take out the perceived threat.

You sound like you have lived one very sheltered existence. I would love to see how inviting you are to people breaking down your door if you actually lived in a neighborhood where a break-in was an everyday threat.

Then again, judging by this post, you would be dumb enough to invite a few burglars in for tea before they robbed your shit and killed you.

It took this incident for that state to review their own “no knock” policy. That means apparently, there are other dumbasses like you who allowed an action that stupid to become law in the first place.[/quote]

I didn’t know we had the right to shoot trespassers.

69

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
Fullback33 wrote:
since when is it Okay so start blasting away at people for busting through your door?

I am sure I would be surprised too, but I don’t think I would start shooting before I knew what was going on.

Then when someone decides it’s worth busting your door down then you are going to die.
I don’t understand this sentence. I like how you guys think those cops were looking to murder some old lady, lol. They shot her cus she was shooting them.
Police generally work very hard to protect us for not a whole lot of money. I give them the benefit of the doubt most of the time.

Police may not make a lot of money, but they make enough to stay out of poverty lest they can’t stop breeding. Besides, being a cop has it’s own benefits. I doubt many join for the money. Maybe for the excitement of busting down doors. Though I am sure they at least hope it’s the right door.

That said, if cops deserve the benefit of the doubt why don’t other gov’t workers such as politicians?
I don’t see politicians making shit money to keep people safe. Politicians are scum, everyone knows this. Why don’t we just make it a little more arbitrary next time?
mike

[/quote]Is that a serious question? Give me one good reason a person might have for busting your door down. Just one.
How about if there was a mistake and they didn’t mean to break down my door? Thats a pretty good reason. Apparently this happens more often than we thought.

70

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Fullback33 wrote:
People, as usual, are looking way too far into this. It looks to me like we have at least one cop himself on here who thinks these guys didn’t do anything wrong. Thats not a bad start. It also seems like a “no-knock” warrant explains all of this. Also, since when is it Okay so start blasting away at people for busting through your door? I am sure I would be surprised too, but I don’t think I would start shooting before I knew what was going on. I can’t just shoot people bcause I think they might hurt me. Police generally work very hard to protect us for not a whole lot of money. I give them the benefit of the doubt most of the time.

Damn, you are one complete dumbass. You have the RIGHT to protect your own home from invasion. Or at least, we are supposed to. That means, yes, if people come running into your house for no damn reason, breaking down your door in the process, you have every right to take out the perceived threat.

You sound like you have lived one very sheltered existence. I would love to see how inviting you are to people breaking down your door if you actually lived in a neighborhood where a break-in was an everyday threat.

Then again, judging by this post, you would be dumb enough to invite a few burglars in for tea before they robbed your shit and killed you.

It took this incident for that state to review their own “no knock” policy. That means apparently, there are other dumbasses like you who allowed an action that stupid to become law in the first place.[/quote]

LOL. Sheltered life. Are you straight outta Compton? It sounds to me like you just don’t like cops professor. Very cliche. There is no real argument to address in your post, basically it was name calling because I didn’t grow up in “da hood”. Good game professor.

71

[quote]brucevangeorge wrote:
Fullback33 wrote:
People, as usual, are looking way too far into this. It looks to me like we have at least one cop himself on here who thinks these guys didn’t do anything wrong. Thats not a bad start. It also seems like a “no-knock” warrant explains all of this. Also, since when is it Okay so start blasting away at people for busting through your door? I am sure I would be surprised too, but I don’t think I would start shooting before I knew what was going on. I can’t just shoot people bcause I think they might hurt me. Police generally work very hard to protect us for not a whole lot of money. I give them the benefit of the doubt most of the time.

How do you drive to work in the morning?

Can you walk and chew gum at the same time?

Dude. Seriously. That comment was damn ignorant.

What do you think YOU would do if these two big dudes broke down your door and rushed into your house with weapons drawn at YOU? In a drug infested neighborhood? Wearing plain clothes? Like hoodies and ripped jeans?[/quote]
LOL. Napoleon Dynamite. They were attacking my cousins. What would YOU have done in a situation like that?

72

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Fullback33 wrote:
People, as usual, are looking way too far into this. It looks to me like we have at least one cop himself on here who thinks these guys didn’t do anything wrong. Thats not a bad start. It also seems like a “no-knock” warrant explains all of this. Also, since when is it Okay so start blasting away at people for busting through your door? I am sure I would be surprised too, but I don’t think I would start shooting before I knew what was going on. I can’t just shoot people bcause I think they might hurt me. Police generally work very hard to protect us for not a whole lot of money. I give them the benefit of the doubt most of the time.

Damn, you are one complete dumbass. You have the RIGHT to protect your own home from invasion. Or at least, we are supposed to. That means, yes, if people come running into your house for no damn reason, breaking down your door in the process, you have every right to take out the perceived threat.

You sound like you have lived one very sheltered existence. I would love to see how inviting you are to people breaking down your door if you actually lived in a neighborhood where a break-in was an everyday threat.

Then again, judging by this post, you would be dumb enough to invite a few burglars in for tea before they robbed your shit and killed you.

It took this incident for that state to review their own “no knock” policy. That means apparently, there are other dumbasses like you who allowed an action that stupid to become law in the first place.[/quote]
Maybe there was an argument that snuck in there with all the unprovoked insults.

Like I said earlier, I don’t think it is legal to shoot a trespasser. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe since it was in a bad neighborhood anyone can shoot at anything because I don’t know what it’s like. I don’t have any sympathy for those people. Get a better job and move out. Then you won’t have to shoot police officers on accident.

73

[quote]brucevangeorge wrote:
Fullback33 wrote:
People, as usual, are looking way too far into this. It looks to me like we have at least one cop himself on here who thinks these guys didn’t do anything wrong. Thats not a bad start. It also seems like a “no-knock” warrant explains all of this. Also, since when is it Okay so start blasting away at people for busting through your door? I am sure I would be surprised too, but I don’t think I would start shooting before I knew what was going on. I can’t just shoot people bcause I think they might hurt me. Police generally work very hard to protect us for not a whole lot of money. I give them the benefit of the doubt most of the time.

How do you drive to work in the morning?

Can you walk and chew gum at the same time?

Dude. Seriously. That comment was damn ignorant.

What do you think YOU would do if these two big dudes broke down your door and rushed into your house with weapons drawn at YOU? In a drug infested neighborhood? Wearing plain clothes? Like hoodies and ripped jeans?[/quote]

I spent a little time trying to see how you can deduce I am uncoordinated from my post. You cannot. So you must be stupid? I can chew the shit out of gum while I walk thank you.

74

I am an internet n00b so my posts are fucked up. Shit.

75

[quote]Fullback33 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Fullback33 wrote:
People, as usual, are looking way too far into this. It looks to me like we have at least one cop himself on here who thinks these guys didn’t do anything wrong. Thats not a bad start. It also seems like a “no-knock” warrant explains all of this. Also, since when is it Okay so start blasting away at people for busting through your door? I am sure I would be surprised too, but I don’t think I would start shooting before I knew what was going on. I can’t just shoot people bcause I think they might hurt me. Police generally work very hard to protect us for not a whole lot of money. I give them the benefit of the doubt most of the time.

Damn, you are one complete dumbass. You have the RIGHT to protect your own home from invasion. Or at least, we are supposed to. That means, yes, if people come running into your house for no damn reason, breaking down your door in the process, you have every right to take out the perceived threat.

You sound like you have lived one very sheltered existence. I would love to see how inviting you are to people breaking down your door if you actually lived in a neighborhood where a break-in was an everyday threat.

Then again, judging by this post, you would be dumb enough to invite a few burglars in for tea before they robbed your shit and killed you.

It took this incident for that state to review their own “no knock” policy. That means apparently, there are other dumbasses like you who allowed an action that stupid to become law in the first place.
Maybe there was an argument that snuck in there with all the unprovoked insults.

Like I said earlier, I don’t think it is legal to shoot a trespasser. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe since it was in a bad neighborhood anyone can shoot at anything because I don’t know what it’s like. I don’t have any sympathy for those people. Get a better job and move out. Then you won’t have to shoot police officers on accident.
[/quote]

Yeah, and I don’t have any sympathy for the cops. Get a different job where you aren’t kicking doors down with faulty intel. Then you won’t have to get shot by an innocent person.

mike

76

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
Fullback33 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Fullback33 wrote:
People, as usual, are looking way too far into this. It looks to me like we have at least one cop himself on here who thinks these guys didn’t do anything wrong. Thats not a bad start. It also seems like a “no-knock” warrant explains all of this. Also, since when is it Okay so start blasting away at people for busting through your door? I am sure I would be surprised too, but I don’t think I would start shooting before I knew what was going on. I can’t just shoot people bcause I think they might hurt me. Police generally work very hard to protect us for not a whole lot of money. I give them the benefit of the doubt most of the time.

Damn, you are one complete dumbass. You have the RIGHT to protect your own home from invasion. Or at least, we are supposed to. That means, yes, if people come running into your house for no damn reason, breaking down your door in the process, you have every right to take out the perceived threat.

You sound like you have lived one very sheltered existence. I would love to see how inviting you are to people breaking down your door if you actually lived in a neighborhood where a break-in was an everyday threat.

Then again, judging by this post, you would be dumb enough to invite a few burglars in for tea before they robbed your shit and killed you.

It took this incident for that state to review their own “no knock” policy. That means apparently, there are other dumbasses like you who allowed an action that stupid to become law in the first place.
Maybe there was an argument that snuck in there with all the unprovoked insults.

Like I said earlier, I don’t think it is legal to shoot a trespasser. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe since it was in a bad neighborhood anyone can shoot at anything because I don’t know what it’s like. I don’t have any sympathy for those people. Get a better job and move out. Then you won’t have to shoot police officers on accident.

Yeah, and I don’t have any sympathy for the cops. Get a different job where you aren’t kicking doors down with faulty intel. Then you won’t have to get shot by an innocent person.

mike[/quote]

OMG! You make it sound as if people that serve the government were actually responsible for their decision to serve the government, no matter how dangerously stupid it might get!

What?s next? Trials for those that kill innocent people or arrest (or torture) them because of an unconstitutional law?

Somwhere in there you hide the assumption that government officials and law enforcement officers should be held AT LEAST to the same standard everyone else is…

COMMIE!!!

77

[quote]Fullback33 wrote:
I didn’t know we had the right to shoot trespassers.
[/quote]

You have no legal (as opposed to natural) right to protect property with deadly force. You do have a right to protect your life. You cannot shoot a burglar/attempted murderer/rapist in the back, but you can generally shoot them in the front. Different states determine the line of self-defense differently.

Any law that does not allow a person to preserve his life when under attack is an unjust law.

78

[quote]Fullback33 wrote:
Like I said earlier, I don’t think it is legal to shoot a trespasser. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe since it was in a bad neighborhood anyone can shoot at anything because I don’t know what it’s like. I don’t have any sympathy for those people. Get a better job and move out. Then you won’t have to shoot police officers on accident.
[/quote]

No. Not just any trespasser. Gun wielding trespassers who smashed in your door.

Looking like street thugs I presume. Then claiming to be “cops” with their weapons drawn. In a bad neighborhood, in a crime infested part of town.

This is not about trespassers in general. Just THOSE two guys who shot the old lady.

No uniform, no identification.

79

[quote]nephorm wrote:

You have no legal (as opposed to natural) right to protect property with deadly force. [/quote]

In Texas you have a legal right to protect your property with deadly force.

80

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:

How do you call violently knocking my door down doing me no harm? I don’t care who you are, I am no criminal (at least for any real crimes) so if my door comes flying off the hinges then you’re getting a .308 in your chest. Besides, criminalizing drugs has made us all LESS safe, so these poor police officers aren’t making anyone any safer.

mike

[/quote]

Here are a few things for consideration
for anyone considering blindly opening fire on the next person that comes through their door:

  1. Owning a gun is a serious responsibility. If you can’t handle “target discrimination”, don’t own a gun. Target discrimination, in a nutshell, is knowing what the fuck you are shooting at. A great deal of training goes into this in military and law enforcement circles. It encompasses physical abilities, perceptual skills and most importantly, psychological skills(management of stress). If you haven’t been trained in this, I suggest you look into it if you are a gun owner. One of the golden rules of firearms handling is “know your target and what is behind it”.

2.You don’t automatically have the legal right to “put a .308” in anyone’s chest if they come through your door. Your life could very well end unnecessarily if you do so(either by being shot of spending the rest of it in a small cell). A few examples from my own experience. Once, I had a guy who was severely mentally handicapped push his way into a neighbors house. He wandered away from a group home and had some strange compulsion which caused him to seek drinks. He made his way to the refrigerator and helped himself to the cool-aid. All in all a harmless guy who was not in control of his actions. I’ve had the same thing happen with drunks on numerous occasions. Neither situation warrants the “.308 in the chest”. This also goes for situations such as trespassers. This is not to say I would
hesitate to defend my home with extreme
violence if need be. It is to say that the decision should be reasonable and measured as much as possible.

3.This kind of goes along with the above, but you have no legal right to resist police actions unless they are
A.on their face unlawful and B. immediately threaten yours or someone else’s life. These situations are exceedingly rare and would take a rogue cop who was out to kill you for his own personal reasons. If the police make a mistake and raid the wrong house, you have no business unloading with a .308.
Hopefully, you will know they are police because of the first in my series of points here. If you can’t handle what I brought up in point #1, you may wish to reconsider owning a firearm. This also goes for any false arrest situation. If the cops are wrong, unless they are beating you to death unjustly, go along
with their actions and it can be dealt with later.

4.Spare me the juvenile rambo fantasy crap. Defending yourself and potentially taking life is serious business. Anyone I have ever know that
was well-trained at taking life, or had actually done so, never walked around spouting off about blasting anyone that comes through their door or such other trash. They know what it entails, the serious personal and social costs of doing so, not to mention the actual reality of engaging in combat with another human being.