92 Year Old Woman Gunned Down

[quote]

Professor X wrote:
That is why they should have dressed appropriately. It was bad planning and the result of it doesn’t surprise me at all.
doogie wrote:
Most of the home invasions down here involve people wearing clothes that say POLICE.

For fucks sake, the lady was 92. Do you honestly think there is ANYTHING those officers could have been wearing that would have kept a 92 year old lady from shooting at them as they came through her door in the middle of the night?
Professor X wrote:
Yes. How about…noticing it is the middle of the night…waiting for the 92 year old woman to even answer and then introduce yourselves with a freaking badge…and then present your warrant?

Gee, I know, that is such a hard choice to make what with common sense being such a rarity today. It makes much better sense to run into a house in a neighborhood that is described as having bars on every window and somehow expect for no one to react.[/quote]

You were bitching about their clothes. Read what you wrote.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Yes. How about…noticing it is the middle of the night…waiting for the 92 year old woman to even answer and then introduce yourselves with a freaking badge…and then present your warrant?

[/quote]

Sure, knock on the drug dealer’s door, wait for him to flush everything down the toilet, put on his body armor and get out his AK-47 with the armor piercing rounds before you politely introduce yourself as a police officer. That makes all kinds of fucking sense.

[quote]doogie wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Yes. How about…noticing it is the middle of the night…waiting for the 92 year old woman to even answer and then introduce yourselves with a freaking badge…and then present your warrant?

Sure, knock on the drug dealer’s door, wait for him to flush everything down the toilet, put on his body armor and get out his AK-47 with the armor piercing rounds before you politely introduce yourself as a police officer. That makes all kinds of fucking sense.[/quote]

Yes, so does keeping an eye on the house for a few hours before busting into it. It is amazing what a little bit of recon could do. I mean, I know that would take a few officers off of seat belt ticket duty, but I guess the lives of the officers and the civilian aren’t worth the few thousand dollars the city could net.

mike

[quote]Professor X wrote:
doogie wrote:
Professor X wrote:
That is why they should have dressed appropriately. It was bad planning and the result of it doesn’t surprise me at all.

Most of the home invasions down here involve people wearing clothes that say POLICE.

For fucks sake, the lady was 92. Do you honestly think there is ANYTHING those officers could have been wearing that would have kept a 92 year old lady from shooting at them as they came through her door in the middle of the night?

Yes. How about…noticing it is the middle of the night…waiting for the 92 year old woman to even answer and then introduce yourselves with a freaking badge…and then present your warrant?

Gee, I know, that is such a hard choice to make what with common sense being such a rarity today. It makes much better sense to run into a house in a neighborhood that is described as having bars on every window and somehow expect for no one to react.[/quote]

You assume the police would somehow know that the only occupant is a 92 year old woman, despite having previously bought drugs there from a guy named Sam. The police have particular ways of doing things for their own safety because so much of the job deals with going into the unknown.

Something similar happened to a friend of mine when his team raided a drug house. They were attacked bodily by a man in his 70s or 80s. They restrained him without any serious injury but I should mention that he was living there with a number of Bloods in their 20s who were somehow related to him.

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
doogie wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Yes. How about…noticing it is the middle of the night…waiting for the 92 year old woman to even answer and then introduce yourselves with a freaking badge…and then present your warrant?

Sure, knock on the drug dealer’s door, wait for him to flush everything down the toilet, put on his body armor and get out his AK-47 with the armor piercing rounds before you politely introduce yourself as a police officer. That makes all kinds of fucking sense.

Yes, so does keeping an eye on the house for a few hours before busting into it. It is amazing what a little bit of recon could do. I mean, I know that would take a few officers off of seat belt ticket duty, but I guess the lives of the officers and the civilian aren’t worth the few thousand dollars the city could net.

mike
[/quote]

Not a bad idea but there is simply no time for that in most areas.

[quote]JD430 wrote:

Not a bad idea but there is simply no time for that in most areas.

[/quote]

LOL, but there IS time to ram down the door of a house looking for someone who doesn’t live there and ending up with one dead old woman on the floor. Let me ask a policeman, how many more arrests do you think were made that night after this one? Didn’t they need medical attention? If that’s the case, it sure isn’t like they saved much time doing it this way.

[quote]doogie wrote:

You were bitching about their clothes. Read what you wrote.[/quote]

Your point? That is why I wrote to introduce themselves and PRESENT A FREAKING BADGE. That is also right there in what I wrote.

[quote]JD430 wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
doogie wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Yes. How about…noticing it is the middle of the night…waiting for the 92 year old woman to even answer and then introduce yourselves with a freaking badge…and then present your warrant?

Sure, knock on the drug dealer’s door, wait for him to flush everything down the toilet, put on his body armor and get out his AK-47 with the armor piercing rounds before you politely introduce yourself as a police officer. That makes all kinds of fucking sense.

Yes, so does keeping an eye on the house for a few hours before busting into it. It is amazing what a little bit of recon could do. I mean, I know that would take a few officers off of seat belt ticket duty, but I guess the lives of the officers and the civilian aren’t worth the few thousand dollars the city could net.

mike

Not a bad idea but there is simply no time for that in most areas.

[/quote]

Why? If there are still cops out writing tickets then there is still available manpower for a recon. It is a case of setting priorities. In this case the priorities weren’t the defense of life, it was getting that ticket money. When lives may well be on the line then you MAKE the time for a recon.

mike

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
JD430 wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
doogie wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Yes. How about…noticing it is the middle of the night…waiting for the 92 year old woman to even answer and then introduce yourselves with a freaking badge…and then present your warrant?

Sure, knock on the drug dealer’s door, wait for him to flush everything down the toilet, put on his body armor and get out his AK-47 with the armor piercing rounds before you politely introduce yourself as a police officer. That makes all kinds of fucking sense.

Yes, so does keeping an eye on the house for a few hours before busting into it. It is amazing what a little bit of recon could do. I mean, I know that would take a few officers off of seat belt ticket duty, but I guess the lives of the officers and the civilian aren’t worth the few thousand dollars the city could net.

mike

Not a bad idea but there is simply no time for that in most areas.

Why? If there are still cops out writing tickets then there is still available manpower for a recon. It is a case of setting priorities. In this case the priorities weren’t the defense of life, it was getting that ticket money. When lives may well be on the line then you MAKE the time for a recon.

mike
[/quote]

And then she is of course the latest victim of the War on Drugs which is perpetuated by the governmet by keeping the prizes up and making dealing drugs immensely profitable…

Many of you are missing one very important point regarding this or any other type of raid on a citizens house.

With just a bit of surveillance the police would have recognized the fact that in that particular house was an old woman who was in fact NOT selling drugs.

This was just another botched police raid that many of you are blowing off as no big deal. It is a big deal! In fact it’s a huge deal. It was sloppy police work which cost an innocent citizen her life.

This incident needs to be investigated and those responsible for this horrible tragedy brought to justice. And I’m talking primarily about the genius who planned this fiasco.

There is no justification for killing this woman.

Sigh…

Oh, its getting better!

Informant denies buying drugs at elderly Atlantan’s home
November 28, 2006

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) – An informant cited in a search warrant as having purchased narcotics at an elderly Atlanta woman’s house denies buying drugs there, authorities say.

Undercover officers raiding the 88-year-old woman’s house shot her to death last week after she fired on them while they broke down her door in a high-crime neighborhood.

Federal prosecutors will investigate the case, Atlanta police Chief Richard Pennington announced Monday.

Pennington said the eight-member narcotics squad that took part in the raid has been placed on paid leave while investigators look into the informant’s story and the circumstances surrounding the November 21 death of Kathryn Johnston.

The informant also told investigators from the Atlanta police internal affairs bureau that he was told to lie about the matter, the chief said.

“The FBI will investigate his statements, along with the police officers’ statements as well,” Pennington said.

Authorities said Johnston opened fire on police who tried to enter her home, prying off burglar bars and forcing open her door, during a “no-knock” drug raid. Officers returned fire, killing her.

Relatives put Johnston’s age at 92, but Fulton County medical examiners said she was 88.

Neighbors and relatives said the raid had to have been a mistake. They said Johnston lived alone and was so afraid of crime in her neighborhood west of downtown Atlanta that she wouldn’t let neighbors who delivered groceries for her come into her home.
Atlanta police reviews ‘no-knock’ policy

In an affidavit used to obtain the search warrant, narcotics officers said an informant had purchased two bags of crack cocaine from a man identified only as “Sam” in the home earlier that day.

Pennington said he called in federal prosecutors and the FBI after internal affairs investigators questioned the informant during the weekend.

“After we brought the informant in and interviewed that informant, he told us that he had no knowledge of going into that house to purchase drugs,” he said. “That’s what he told us. I don’t know if he went in or not. We don’t know if he’s telling the truth.”

In an interview with Atlanta’s WAGA-TV, the informant said he had never been to Johnston’s house.

“I’m telling them, I never went to the house,” the informant told the station. “The police can’t say I ever went to the house.”

The informant then said police called him and told him “you need to cover our ass.”

“It’s all on you – have to tell them about this Sam dude,” the informant said police told him.

Pennington said the man was being “put away in a secure place” until the FBI could question him. The chief also promised to make “every document, every witness and piece of evidence” available to investigators.

Meanwhile, the seven narcotics officers and a sergeant were put on administrative leave with pay, and the department is reviewing its use of “no-knock” raids after the shootout, he said. The warrants are common in narcotics cases when officers fear suspects may try to dispose of drugs or evidence in the time it takes authorities to gain access to the home.

In addition to the FBI and Justice Department, the Fulton County district attorney’s office and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation are taking part in the probe.

Pennington made his reputation cleaning up a corrupt New Orleans, Louisiana, Police Department in the 1990s. He said the “intense speculation and suspicion” surrounding Johnston’s death spurred him to call in outside agencies.

“There are many unanswered questions. I promise each and every citizen that the complete truth will be eventually known, whatever that might be,” he said. “But we must all exercise patience while we examine and re-examine every single aspect of these tragic events.”

A spokesman for Johnston’s family, the Rev. Markel Hutchins, went to Washington to request a federal investigation Monday. Hutchins said he had received assurances that agents would conduct a “swift and thorough” investigation into the woman’s death.

Hutchins said the three midlevel officials with whom he met also promised “all resources at our disposal” to help counter the fallout in the African-American community from the shooting. He said he urged Justice Department officials to press for strong federal guidance to local police departments against the use of no-knock warrants.

[quote]PGA wrote:
Oh, its getting better!

Informant denies buying drugs at elderly Atlantan’s home
November 28, 2006

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) – An informant cited in a search warrant as having purchased narcotics at an elderly Atlanta woman’s house denies buying drugs there, authorities say.

Undercover officers raiding the 88-year-old woman’s house shot her to death last week after she fired on them while they broke down her door in a high-crime neighborhood.

Federal prosecutors will investigate the case, Atlanta police Chief Richard Pennington announced Monday.

Pennington said the eight-member narcotics squad that took part in the raid has been placed on paid leave while investigators look into the informant’s story and the circumstances surrounding the November 21 death of Kathryn Johnston.

The informant also told investigators from the Atlanta police internal affairs bureau that he was told to lie about the matter, the chief said.

“The FBI will investigate his statements, along with the police officers’ statements as well,” Pennington said.

Authorities said Johnston opened fire on police who tried to enter her home, prying off burglar bars and forcing open her door, during a “no-knock” drug raid. Officers returned fire, killing her.

Relatives put Johnston’s age at 92, but Fulton County medical examiners said she was 88.

Neighbors and relatives said the raid had to have been a mistake. They said Johnston lived alone and was so afraid of crime in her neighborhood west of downtown Atlanta that she wouldn’t let neighbors who delivered groceries for her come into her home.
Atlanta police reviews ‘no-knock’ policy

In an affidavit used to obtain the search warrant, narcotics officers said an informant had purchased two bags of crack cocaine from a man identified only as “Sam” in the home earlier that day.

Pennington said he called in federal prosecutors and the FBI after internal affairs investigators questioned the informant during the weekend.

“After we brought the informant in and interviewed that informant, he told us that he had no knowledge of going into that house to purchase drugs,” he said. “That’s what he told us. I don’t know if he went in or not. We don’t know if he’s telling the truth.”

In an interview with Atlanta’s WAGA-TV, the informant said he had never been to Johnston’s house.

“I’m telling them, I never went to the house,” the informant told the station. “The police can’t say I ever went to the house.”

The informant then said police called him and told him “you need to cover our ass.”

“It’s all on you – have to tell them about this Sam dude,” the informant said police told him.

Pennington said the man was being “put away in a secure place” until the FBI could question him. The chief also promised to make “every document, every witness and piece of evidence” available to investigators.

Meanwhile, the seven narcotics officers and a sergeant were put on administrative leave with pay, and the department is reviewing its use of “no-knock” raids after the shootout, he said. The warrants are common in narcotics cases when officers fear suspects may try to dispose of drugs or evidence in the time it takes authorities to gain access to the home.

In addition to the FBI and Justice Department, the Fulton County district attorney’s office and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation are taking part in the probe.

Pennington made his reputation cleaning up a corrupt New Orleans, Louisiana, Police Department in the 1990s. He said the “intense speculation and suspicion” surrounding Johnston’s death spurred him to call in outside agencies.

“There are many unanswered questions. I promise each and every citizen that the complete truth will be eventually known, whatever that might be,” he said. “But we must all exercise patience while we examine and re-examine every single aspect of these tragic events.”

A spokesman for Johnston’s family, the Rev. Markel Hutchins, went to Washington to request a federal investigation Monday. Hutchins said he had received assurances that agents would conduct a “swift and thorough” investigation into the woman’s death.

Hutchins said the three midlevel officials with whom he met also promised “all resources at our disposal” to help counter the fallout in the African-American community from the shooting. He said he urged Justice Department officials to press for strong federal guidance to local police departments against the use of no-knock warrants.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/28/atlanta.shooting/index.html[/quote]

Holy crap. So this woman died for no reason at all!?

LOL at anyone who can’t understand why cops aren’t trusted across the board. You would have to have grown up in some fantasy land devoid of any profiling or harassment directed at you or your skin color to believe otherwise.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Holy crap. So this woman died for no reason at all!?[/quote]

Was there ever a doubt?

[quote]PGA wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Holy crap. So this woman died for no reason at all!?

Was there ever a doubt?[/quote]

Not from me, but people like Doogie sure seem strangely silent all of a sudden on this one.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
PGA wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Holy crap. So this woman died for no reason at all!?

Was there ever a doubt?

Not from me, but people like Doogie sure seem strangely silent all of a sudden on this one. [/quote]

That’s because I’ve been in clinicals the last two nights.

If that article is correct, I have no problem with the cops rotting in jail forever. It’s your constant rush to judgment that I object to.

[quote]doogie wrote:
Professor X wrote:
PGA wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Holy crap. So this woman died for no reason at all!?

Was there ever a doubt?

Not from me, but people like Doogie sure seem strangely silent all of a sudden on this one.

That’s because I’ve been in clinicals the last two nights.

If that article is correct, I have no problem with the cops rotting in jail forever. It’s your constant rush to judgment that I object to.[/quote]

Rush to judgment? So far, my conclusion has been right across two of the three cases brought up on this board since last March. Maybe I’m just looking at it deeper than you are or perhaps I have had experiences that you haven’t. If I was so off…I wouldn’t have been right about the wrong police action here or in the case involving the kid dying in bootcamp. Maybe you should stop defending cops so fiercely as if no one has justification for mistrust of many of them due to past experience.

I looked at the info provided and made an educated guess based on it. You, on the other hand, seem very bent on defending them as if you have the better perspective. It seems you don’t.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
doogie wrote:
Professor X wrote:
PGA wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Holy crap. So this woman died for no reason at all!?

Was there ever a doubt?

Not from me, but people like Doogie sure seem strangely silent all of a sudden on this one.

That’s because I’ve been in clinicals the last two nights.

If that article is correct, I have no problem with the cops rotting in jail forever. It’s your constant rush to judgment that I object to.

Rush to judgment? So far, my conclusion has been right across two of the three cases brought up on this board since last March. Maybe I’m just looking at it deeper than you are or perhaps I have had experiences that you haven’t. If I was so off…I wouldn’t have been right about the wrong police action here or in the case involving the kid dying in bootcamp. Maybe you should stop defending cops so fiercely as if no one has justification for mistrust of many of them due to past experience.

I looked at the info provided and made an educated guess based on it. You, on the other hand, seem very bent on defending them as if you have the better perspective. It seems you don’t.[/quote]

I believe in waiting for all the facts to come in before I convict someone. I’m funny that way.

[quote]doogie wrote:
I believe in waiting for all the facts to come in before I convict someone. I’m funny that way.
[/quote]

That’s commie talk!

[quote]doogie wrote:

I believe in waiting for all the facts to come in before I convict someone. I’m funny that way.

[/quote]

If that was simply your belief, you wouldn’t have made comments as if I was off to ask questions to begin with. Your arguments were NOT some objective view of events but a clear defensive position. The two aren’t the same.